Current Events > Loki Episode 6 Finale Topic *SPOILERS*

(+) Yeah! (+)

Questionmarktarius posted...

Throg and Lokigator need a spinoff, dammit.

UnfairRepresent posted...

And I would understand that IF it was in service to a really good plot or twist or scene

But it wasn't. People were doing things that made no sense for no reason to push a plot that made no sense and was boring.

Why did Thor stop firing lighting at the Battle of New York when it was super effective? Well because they wanted to do a cool action scene. Fine.

There's a scene in Star Trek The Next Generation where a child runs in front of a Klingon. The Klingon picks him up menacingly. Security all go nuts, then the Klingon harmlessly puts him down and they're like "OMG u thought a Klingon would hurt an innocent child!? WE're an honorable warrior race"..... Well then why the fuck did you pick him up aggressively in the first place? Well so they could establish the ground rules of how Klingon honor works and give the villain some nuance.

Well it makes no sense but it was to make a plot point.

You can suspend disbelief for a story no problem but when the character actions AND plot AND scenes all go no where. That excuse runs out. You're suspending disbelief to suspend disbelief just to watch boring dull unrelatable crap that doesn't draw emotions out of you.

People dodged the question but I don't think anyone would have given a crap if Judge Lady died. No one cared because her character and plot went no where

So which scenes in Loki did the characters make decisions that made no sense? Your example is a...scene from Star Trek? Okay?

Judge Lady was an antagonist. I don't think you were supposed to care if she died. But her plot specifically has a cliffhanger because there's season 2. It's not finished. This is a TV show not a movie.

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Darmik posted...

He had no power in episode 1. He even specifically says later on in the series that he intends to take over the TVA to Sylvie.

Yeah. When he thinks taking over the TVA would mean the greatest power in the universe.

Not when it means you have to keep the pure timeline going and do nothing.

And apparently you didn't see the entire conversatons he had with Owen Wilson and watching his mom die.

Although yeah I agree the writing is bad. What Loki wanted changed from moment to moment. But they made it straight from the get go that despite his actions, Loki didn't really want to rule. He just liked having purpose. And Thor 1/3 support that

I suppose you could argue maintaining the pure timeline is a purpose too but that's still not an arc.

What don't you understand about their logic in the final episode?

Everything I've covered in great detail.

The problem with discussing you with any of this stuff it's always the same routine.

"None of this stuff mattered or happened"
"Yes it did. Here was when those things happened"
"Those don't count."

"He said he had something really cool to show me but then we just sat there for 9 hours and nothing happened."
"that's not true! A truck drove by at one point...."

Sure hyperliterally some things occured but nothing interesting happened. No fun stories, cool plots, climatic moments, relatable drama, anything that would spin a good yarn or tug emotions or make you think or be a cool visual treat.

Just plot threads and ideas going no where, boring conversations re-establishing things we already know for 30 minutes, boring fight that only occured to push a plot that made no sense by havinng characters act in ways that make no sense.

Yeah nothing happened.

"Oh but it turns out the multiverse being a threat to life itself was actually the multiverse being a threat to life itself and something interesting may happen in the future." isn't really exciting TV for me . Let alone a finale.

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Would just like to say a big fuck you to everyone who shit on me stating there were already plans for a season two. Lmao.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Yeah. When he thinks taking over the TVA would mean the greatest power in the universe.

Not when it means you have to keep the pure timeline going and do nothing.

He could change the 'prime timeline' any way he wanted. This was literally offered to him several times. He just needed to prune it so there was only one.

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Darmik posted...

That was Ralph Boner.

Heheh, "boner"!

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daynlokki posted...

Would just like to say a big fuck you to everyone who shit on me stating there were already plans for a season two. Lmao.

I never said anything to you about it, but I did doubt you in my head.

I accept this fuck you regardless lol.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

You keep saying that but not actually saying what about them you don't understand. No one else is having any trouble finding the sense in my views.

I think you're just saying "they don't make sense" because they're different to yours

No we're saying they don't make sense (and I'm not the only one, someone else literally called your arguments nonsensical) because you're complaining about the show devoting "too much screentime" to the literal main villain of the entire series, while at the same time nitpicking endlessly about the show not explicitly explaining how cosmic space dog conception works.

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Darmik posted...

He could change the 'prime timeline' any way he wanted. This was literally offered to him several times. He just needed to prune it so there was only one.

Yeah. I mean, Miss Minutes literally goes up to him and offers him a timeline where he gets to have everything he ever wanted.

It's actually a fairly significant thing that he rejects the offer.

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It's like a Russian nesting doll of unsatisfying endings. Will season 2 have an ending, or will it just set up season 3? Will season 3 have an ending or just set up season 4? Where does it end?

Anyway I hope at least one universe is Thanos is a good guy and he just god-punches a Kang into paste.

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jumi posted...

It's like a Russian nesting doll of unsatisfying endings. Will season 2 have an ending, or will it just set up season 3? Will season 3 have an ending or just set up season 4? Where does it end?

you're unfamiliar with a cliffhanger ending in a TV show?

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Yeah. When he thinks taking over the TVA would mean the greatest power in the universe.

Not when it means you have to keep the pure timeline going and do nothing.

And apparently you didn't see the entire conversatons he had with Owen Wilson and watching his mom die.

Although yeah I agree the writing is bad. What Loki wanted changed from moment to moment. But they made it straight from the get go that despite his actions, Loki didn't really want to rule. He just liked having purpose. And Thor 1/3 support that

I suppose you could argue maintaining the pure timeline is a purpose too but that's still not an arc.

Everything I've covered in great detail.

"He said he had something really cool to show me but then we just sat there for 9 hours and nothing happened."
"that's not true! A truck drove by at one point...."

Sure hyperliterally some things occured but nothing interesting happened. No fun stories, cool plots, climatic moments, relatable drama, anything that would spin a good yarn or tug emotions or make you think or be a cool visual treat.

Just plot threads and ideas going no where, boring conversations re-establishing things we already know for 30 minutes, boring fight that only occured to push a plot that made no sense by havinng characters act in ways that make no sense.

Yeah nothing happened.

"Oh but it turns out the multiverse being a threat to life itself was actually the multiverse being a threat to life itself and something interesting may happen in the future." isn't really exciting TV for me . Let alone a finale.

id say watch something else then. Cleary the MCU isnt for you.

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Zeeak4444 posted...

id say watch something else then. Cleary the MCU isnt for you.

Legit.

But he wont. Hell watch it just to come here and complain about it. He could like... watch something he likes, but I guess hes a sadist.

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Doom_Art posted...

you're unfamiliar with a cliffhanger ending in a TV show?

I generally prefer some sort of "ending" in my cliffhanger endings.

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jumi posted...

I generally prefer some sort of "ending" in my cliffhanger endings.

that's not how cliffhangers usually work lol

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jumi posted...

I generally prefer some sort of "ending" in my cliffhanger endings.

That's... an oxymoron. A cliffhanger is an ending with no resolution. You're asking for resolution in something defined by the lack of it..

It's like asking for an eggless omlet

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Yeah the entire point of a cliffhanger for a TV show is to get you to watch the next season to see what happens lol

Some of you guys must have got really angry at Lost season finales lol

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Darmik posted...

Yeah the entire point of a cliffhanger for a TV show is to get you to watch the next season to see what happens lol

There was some TV show where John Goodman became a buff twenty-something dude, and it got cancelled on a cliffhanger.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Yeah. I mean, Miss Minutes literally goes up to him and offers him a timeline where he gets to have everything he ever wanted.

It's actually a fairly significant thing that he rejects the offer.

tbf sylvie rejected it for him.

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Excepting good writing from a miniseries is pretty naive. The whole Marvel franchise caters to marvel fans. If you dont like it, dont watch it.

TurtleInFreedom posted...

Excepting good writing from a miniseries is pretty naive.

The Day After still holds up.

Questionmarktarius posted...

There was some TV show where John Goodman became a buff twenty-something dude, and it got cancelled on a cliffhanger.

Twin Peaks explicitly ends things on cliffhangers without the intention of ever actually revisiting it again lol

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I find most marvel shows and movies pretty boring the last few years but Loki was great

I felt like it was the best of the series these past few months simply because it felt extremely relevant to the total story.

Though honestly all of them weren't that special.

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pikachupwnage posted...

Do you think Loki will show up in any of the films? Thor Love and Thunder or Ant-Man Quantumania perhaps? Those are the two most obvious possibilities. Obviously any Thor movie increase the chance of Loki showing and Quantumania likely ties in heavily to Loki Season 2/in general.

Multiverse of Madness is also possible.

Or will season 2 kill him off?

I got $5 on him appearing in one of the Love and Thunder credit scenes


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Darmik posted...
He could change the 'prime timeline' any way he wanted. This was literally offered to him several times. He just needed to prune it so there was only one.

No he can't. as the dude explained the perfect timeline had to ensure 0 more variants

The calls he made weren't what he wanted, they were to keep the timeline. If Loki decides to keep Asgard around, then that will create more variants.

Again they establish this in the show. Any alterations to this one perfect timeline will create more variants which will result in the war continuing, the timeline where only one dude remains on top is specific and has to be maintained

Castle dude literally whined about how tired and bored he was, he had nothing. That was the point, he talked for so long you literally forgot what he was saying

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

No we're saying they don't make sense (and I'm not the only one,

Yes you are and you're the only one not following the logic

because you're complaining about the show devoting "too much screentime" to the literal main villain of the entire series,

That's a strawman. The issue isn't the amount of screen time it's the content.

I think you're taking the Thanos only appeared in Avengers for seconds comment hyperliterally. The point was he appeared when he needed to to set up the future while the movie went on.

The Avengers wasn't Ironman , Coulson and Thanos discussing how dangerous Thanos is for 2 hours. It was an exciting movie about multiple characters with clashing personalities and Thanos is just established as the cause and ultimate threat.

You can do this in an indulgent way with a lot of screen time if you're good at writing. Let's take a look at a scene from FFX:

https://youtu.be/hsxeTJh1g6I

Now they could have 2 guys talking to each other for 45 minutes to reestablish the threat (In this case Sin) everyone already knows and how they relate to it while going on at length about how they are a villain.

OR, they could do what they did. Be visually interesting, set up multiple villains sufficiently , give insights into their backstory without just stating it, showing not telling and still giving the audience intrigue, while at the same time actually advancing the current plot of the moment WHILE setting up future events.

Why did Seymour have a giant 3D movie sphere room of Zanarkand? Where did that room come from? Who knows, who cares. it was a device to set up plot and characters

When the plot and characters are good and make sense, you suspend your disbelief for the scene. If the plot and characters make no sense and are stupid and boring then just going "Suspend disbelief and accept they are setting up future shit!" doesn't jive as a defense.

This is called Narrative Coherence and it's a cornerstone of writing

You could have the entire episode be about the black dude, just make him actually do stuff that interesting relatable characters with personality and actions we comprehend bounce off of

while at the same time nitpicking endlessly about the show not explicitly explaining how cosmic space dog conception works.

That "cosmic space dog" is literally the entire focal point of how the characters in the show achieve their goals.

The fact even you openly admit it doesn't make sense and no one cares demonstrates the poor writing.

We had 30 minutes reestablishing information we already knew and 1 second raising more questions than it answered about the biggest plot device in the show. A being that has murdered a Googleplex of universes, making Thanos and Galactus look like chicken feed yet vulnerable to a chick in a bathrobe doing psychic shit

This stuff isn't thought through, the fact you think these writing and plot details such as character motivation and the rules of the show are "nitpicks" demonstrates a lot. Also, you're clearly demonstrating that it does make sense

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RchHomieQuanChi posted...
Yeah. I mean, Miss Minutes literally goes up to him and offers him a timeline where he gets to have everything he ever wanted.
It's actually a fairly significant thing that he rejects the offer.

And doesn't even mention saving his mom lol

Lokison posted...
id say watch something else then. Cleary the MCU isnt for you.

Legit.
But he wont. Hell watch it just to come here and complain about it. He could like... watch something he likes, but I guess hes a sadist.

I like the vast majority of the MCU and thought I would like this since I would love a show about Loki. Maybe one day we'll actually get one

And it was nearly all better than this show.

These are fanboy defenses like this one:

TurtleInFreedom posted...

Excepting good writing from a miniseries is pretty naive. The whole Marvel franchise caters to marvel fans. If you dont like it, dont watch it.

Why?

Why should we except and praise bad writing and a bad show just because its Marvel?

Thats absurd. Marvel has made plenty of good shit.

Darmik posted...

Yeah the entire point of a cliffhanger for a TV show is to get you to watch the next season to see what happens lol

You can still have satisfying conclusions, character arcs, interesting things and a finale while still having a hook.

Other TV shows do it all the time without difficulty

It's not a defense of the criticisms to go " No it had to be badly written to set up some bollocks later on"

Thats insane

Stealing a Zero Punctuation quote:

'It's worth remembering that all reviews are subjective personal opinions, and if you personally enjoy the game then they shouldn't really get to you - unless of course there's a despicable little niggling doubt in the back of your mind, that maybe you're not having as much fun as you've convinced yourself you're having, which doesn't go away no matter how many times you try to slap it down with the wet flannel of weak excuses, like this one.

Why am I reminded of the all-purpose theist cop-out argument, "God moves in mysterious ways?" Nintendo (Marvel) is a big boy now, he doesn't need defending! Small-time curmudgeons like me are not going to reduce anyone who works there to tears and they care even less about you. I've never really understood the almost crusader-like fervor'

Honestly the sheer fact that even the most calm and minor criticisms made by me and other users are being met with teenage girl levels of bitter defending and fallacies says a lot.

"Actually bad writing us fine, Here's some strawmen, just stop watching ! " is not what you would say if you thought something was good. Its what w fanboy says when someone makes valid criticisms they know are right but feel a compulsion to defend the brand.

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Another good visual demonstration of show don't tell is Atun Shei's side by side of The Outlaw vs Gods And Generals

I can't get the time skip to work on mobile so skip to 2:40

https://youtu.be/AndsdQO0Wmk

Or just watch the video, its good

MCU Loki is Gods and Generals
The Outlaw is what I wanted Loki to be like.

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Lokison posted...

It's like asking for an eggless omlet

Why, do we not have any?

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UnfairRepresent posted...

No he can't. as the dude explained the perfect timeline had to ensure 0 more variants

The calls he made weren't what he wanted, they were to keep the timeline. If Loki decides to keep Asgard around, then that will create more variants.

Again they establish this in the show. Any alterations to this one perfect timeline will create more variants which will result in the war continuing, the timeline where only one dude remains on top is specific and has to be maintained

The 'perfect timeline' according to He Who Remains. The one where he is in control. It's perfect to him. Nothing was said that this had to be the only timeline where this method works. Again Loki and Sylvie were offered a new timeline.

There just needs to be one timeline. Whoever is in that position can make the timeline into whatever they want it to be. Loki could make the timeline into whatever he wanted. There can't be variants without multiple timelines. Without multiple timelines there's no multiverse war.

If it was a perfect timeline there'd be no need for pruning. But they had to prune constantly.

Loki could even fuck around and prune any timeline he messed with. The person on that position has infinite knowledge and power and the resources to remove any consequence of they're willing to prune entire timelines and universes.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Castle dude literally whined about how tired and bored he was, he had nothing. That was the point, he talked for so long you literally forgot what he was saying

Because he knew everything that was going to happen. Not because he was stuck in a room doing nothing.

UnfairRepresent posted...

That "cosmic space dog" is literally the entire focal point of how the characters in the show achieve their goals.

And there's no mystery with it. You just don't like the explanation. A cosmic beast spawned due to a multiverse war and eats timelines. Sylvie found a way to control it just like He Who Remains did. It's not that important.

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Darmik posted...

The 'perfect timeline' according to He Who Remains. The one where he is in control. It's perfect to him. Nothing was said that this had to be the only timeline where this method works.

No its firmly established that the timeline has no good or evil morality, it Is set out this way to ensure there is no ultimate showdown of ultimate destiny.

Think about it for 2 seconds. Not only does the show say this repeatedly, the dude lives alone in a castle, bored and miserable. Thats not a perfect life of a ruler

He did all this to save life yet allowed Thanos to wipe out half of the universe he vowed to save... why?

Because he had to. Every one of those people would be variants.

This timeline is not one he wants it's one he constructed to ensure the survival of life itself. The ruler was a miserable puppet who welcomed death.

Again Loki and Sylvie were offered a new timeline.

Admittedly this show is so badly written I could be wrong but my interpretation of that scene is that it was there as a plot device to show Loki turning down a chance at a normal life and that the dude had to offer it because If he didn't the timeline wouldn't work as he planned

Maybe Femloki would have run in, tripped and broken her neck and he never offered her that deal

If it was a perfect timeline there'd be no need for pruning. But they had to prune constantly.

Exactly. They have to ensure this timeline works out in exactly the right perfect way to ensure no one can threaten life itself.

That means following a path whether you want it or not. Preventing Thanos' snap would turn half the universe into variants that need to be pruned.

Loki could even fuck around and prune any timeline he messed with. The person on that position has infinite knowledge and power and the resources to remove any consequence of they're willing to prune entire timelines and universes.

That's not what the show demonstrated, it demonstrated the exact opposite

You listened to this dude for 30 minutes and your takeaway was that he was a Dong Zhuoesq giddy happy despot dictator living the perfect life in the perfect universe he hand crafted to be exactly the way he wanted out of his desires and joy?

I think I've discovered the source of the difference in our takes, we watched different TV shows .

Roy from IT crowd in Thor 2 had more happiness freedom than Black Timelord guy did

Because he knew everything that was going to happen. Not because he was stuck in a room doing nothing.

Didnt say he was doing nothing

but exactly, he knew everything that was going to occur

And there's no mystery with it. You just don't like the explanation. A cosmic beast spawned due to a multiverse war and eats timelines. Sylvie found a way to control it just like He Who Remains did. It's not that important.

Well there is a mystery with it since its utterly unexplained, just no intrigue

But when a giant Langolier who has a personality and mind is born from nothing, outside of science and proceeds to destroy trillions of people infinitely forever but is stopped by loki with boobs using bendy spoons physic powers inside 5 minutes yet defeated infinite amounts of Thanos with the gauntlet, Mantis, Xaviers, Phoenixes Galactuses, for all of eternity ....

But you don't care all so you can have dude take 30 minutes to literally sit down and explain shit already established in episode 1....

Well then your story is a fucking mess.

What does it want?
What happens when it gets full?
Can more turn up?
What if it gets brain cancer and dies?

Can it eat Dormammu in the Dark Dimension?

What about prime Odin's magic that even Thanos feared?

Guys could have spared timelord guy and then just discovered that thing for bored and wandered off.

It's just lazy writing of a potentially interesting character.

Which again if instead we got something cool , would be fine, but instead we got a dude sitting in a chair repeating stuff we already knew so dull characters with no clear motivations can do shit that doesn't make sense towards a plot that doesn't make sense...

That's a bad finale

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*And just to add to that, FemLokis psychic powers which are so weak they don't work on Loki because his mind is too strong

But work on the Langolier. That's how weak its mind is

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UR just casually up at 4am in the UK () shitposting about shows he doesnt like

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Shezarr posted...

UR just casually up at 4am in the UK () shitposting about shows he doesnt like

It's 1:25 PM

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UnfairRepresent posted...

It's 1:25 PM

it wasnt for post 353

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UnfairRepresent posted...

No its firmly established that the timeline has no good or evil morality, it Is set out this way to ensure there is no ultimate showdown of ultimate destiny.

It's firmly established that The One Who Remains established the prime timeline.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Think about it for 2 seconds. Not only does the show say this repeatedly, the dude lives alone in a castle, bored and miserable. Thats not a perfect life of a ruler

He did all this to save life yet allowed Thanos to wipe out half of the universe he vowed to save... why?

Because he had to. Every one of those people would be variants.

This timeline is not one he wants it's one he constructed to ensure the survival of life itself. The ruler was a miserable puppet who welcomed death.

He doesn't care about Thanos. He just prunes timelines to stop other Kang's from existing. He explicitly says this. His final warning is that they'll see them soon.

You're making up stuff that wasn't said in the show. He offered Loki and Sylvie a chance to do what they want and make their own timeline. There was no indication he was lying. Loki specifically says he wasn't lying.

Fundamentally a multiverse war only exists if there's a multiverse. A prime timeline can be whatever the 'keeper' deems it to be.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Exactly. They have to ensure this timeline works out in exactly the right perfect way to ensure no one can threaten life itself.

Nope. Just the alternative Kangs.

UnfairRepresent posted...

You listened to this dude for 30 minutes and your takeaway was that he was a Dong Zhuoesq giddy happy despot dictator living the perfect life in the perfect universe he hand crafted to be exactly the way he wanted out of his desires and joy?

He won the multiverse war, lived an eternity, knows literally everything and is bored of it. There's a lot that's still unknown about him. I doubt he just sat in the citadel and did nothing after he established the TVA.

UnfairRepresent posted...

*And just to add to that, FemLokis psychic powers which are so weak they don't work on Loki because his mind is too strong

But work on the Langolier. That's how weak its mind is

It's a mindless beast so yeah.

It was stuck in the void of time as a way to protect the citadel. The multiverse being open again presumably means new ones can come back yes.

Like the TVA have rods that destroyed timelines. It's not some super special thing in the context of this show.

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I wonder if there's a Miss Minutes variant in the timeline Loki was sent to

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I think the problem with the whole time travel plot as a concept that no one seems to understand how exactly its supposed to work, even those in charge of writing the stories.

The fact that like half of the audiences response to season one of Loki has been what? is pretty clear evidence of that.

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Did anyone else think for a second that Ms minutes was the mastermind at the end when she popped up to greet loki and sylvie?

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Relient_K posted...

Did anyone else think for a second that Ms minutes was the mastermind at the end when she popped up to greet loki and sylvie?

Apparently they had an actual fight scene between Loki/Sylvie and Miss Minutes at that part that they decided to cut.

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Relient_K posted...

Did anyone else think for a second that Ms minutes was the mastermind at the end when she popped up to greet loki and sylvie?

100% did.

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Just saw that Ant-Man 3 is almost 2 years away. Yikes. I thought it was coming out next summer.

I wonder if that's when things are resolved or when they start getting more heated. They never announced an Avengers for this phase.

MrToothHasYou posted...

I think the problem with the whole time travel plot as a concept that no one seems to understand how exactly its supposed to work, even those in charge of writing the stories.

The fact that like half of the audiences response to season one of Loki has been what? is pretty clear evidence of that.

I don't think that's true since a lot of recent time travel works seem to stay pretty consistent within established rules. The problem is that it gets messy for the audience because there's different types with different results, etc.

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ImAMarvel posted...

I don't think I've made many posts on this show despite me being pretty big into superhero movies and superheroes in general, but I'll sum up my thoughts on the show real quick:

-Best Marvel tv show for sure. Was much more hyped for both WandaVision and F&WS but this definitely ended up being better than both by a fair margin imo.

-Kang the Conqueror is going to be awesome. Jonathon Majors' performance was intriguing but I wasn't fully convinced by him. Still think it's going to be sweet when he's introduced proper. Very cool way to introduce the next big villain.

-I really can't wait to see what happens with Ravonna, and just about every other character, really.

-Also, it was really cool to see Loki become legitimately selfless and want to actually change himself into a better version of himself. Very well-done and well-acted.

-The whole show was also visually stunning too. Great stuff overall.

I'm thinking Jonathan Majors is essentially going to be doing an Orphan Black kinda thing where he has a completely different personality for each variant he portrays. Should be awesome if he pulls it off.

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CableZL posted...

I'm thinking Jonathan Majors is essentially going to be doing an Orphan Black kinda thing where he has a completely different personality for each variant he portrays. Should be awesome if he pulls it off.

i saw someone (else?) suggest this on reddit, and i'm all for it. i'm just worried marvel might play it on the safe side and we'll only ever see 3 variants.

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Great show, great finale, and i'm SOOOOO happy loki didn't betray sylvie lol. I was kinda expecting him to stab her when dey had dat one emotional scene but thankfully no....thank you T____T
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Medussa posted...

i saw someone (else?) suggest this on reddit, and i'm all for it. i'm just worried marvel might play it on the safe side and we'll only ever see 3 variants.

I think there will be "main" Kangs played by Majors and then a bunch of disguised "lesser" variants.

Also, I get this weird feeling that Sylvie will be the main villain in season 2. Maybe she didn't let it go entirely to shit and stepped in before chaos.

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Why didn't Sylvie just enchant dat guy?
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ssj3vegeta posted...

Why didn't Sylvie just enchant dat guy?

Because she wanted revenge.

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