Current Events > "Yakuza Is For Men", a video essay about women in the Yakuza series.

(+) Yeah! (+)

EDIT: The video has spoilers for Yakuza 0 through 5. SORRY FOR NOT MENTIONING THIS MY BAD >_<

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-vATfyvh1E

Don't get too distracted by the title.

But this is a conversation I for one have been wanting to have for a long time.

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Next Yakuza game needs to have Ms Tatsu as the playable character

Jesus christ, not this shit.

Western crybabies need to stop trying to change Japanese games.

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It is targeting men. So what? Don't play if you don't like it.

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Im going to go support them more than i was before. Thanks stupid youtuber

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DarkProto05 posted...

It is targeting men. So what? Don't play if you don't like it.

Yeah I'm sure CyricZ of all people doesn't like Yakuza.

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DarkProto05 posted...

It is targeting men. So what? Don't play if you don't like it.

why even bother posting in this thread if you aren't going to watch the video

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so this is obvious in hindsight, but heads up that video has spoilers for the whole series. i had to turn it off once he started talking about plot points in Y5, which i just started.

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Wow.

You guys.

Watch videos.

Real fast.

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Giant_Aspirin posted...

so this is obvious in hindsight, but heads up that video has spoilers for the whole series. i had to turn it off once he started talking about plot points in Y5, which i just started.

Oh shit sorry. >_<

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CyricZ posted...

Wow.

You guys.

Watch videos.

Real fast.

I got 10 seconds in and hated his stupid face and first sentence.

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CyricZ posted...

Wow.

You guys.

Watch videos.

Real fast.

bold of you to assume I'm going to watch this

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FreedomEtrtment posted...

FTR the video addresses how the series challenges masculinity. It's main problem is the lack of female representation. So it's basically like Jojo in that sense.

Keep watching. It's not so much a "lack" as it is how the women characters are used narratively.

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CyricZ posted...

Wow.

You guys.

Watch videos.

Real fast.

The fastest way to get solid information is to pull it out of your ass!

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Do the spoilers go in chronological order, by any chance? I'm curious, but only up to 3 now.

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Antifar posted...

Do the spoilers go in chronological order, by any chance? I'm curious, but only up to 3 now.

Okay, to break it down.

In the very beginning (1:00 - 3:00 approx) are spoilers for the character of Kaoru Sayama in Yakuza 2, but no major plot spoilers.

3:00 - 6:30 is the Yakuza 5 spoilers, talking about characters in that game. Skipping ahead to the second chapter "The Male Perspective" will avoid those.

Beyond that, there are heavy spoilers for Yakuza 0 in the video.

Otherwise, most of the references made to Yakuza 1, 3, and 4 are quite vague, although they do name the final villain of 3.

EDIT: There's also the final scene from Yakuza 1.

There's a lot of out-of-context imagery used in the video, but I know I saw one mid-game character death from Yakuza 2 at least.

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CyricZ posted...

Wow.

You guys.

Watch videos.

Real fast.

I mean it's a 34 minute video.

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Tag for later

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Man, that is a punch-able hairstyle.

On topic: Yeah. I don't really know what there is to add after the title. The games dive heavily into male honor, sworn brotherhoods, the wielding of masculinity. Women, even when they're in positions of power like the Yakuza Huntress in 2, tend to be people in danger, caught in the crosshairs of the spiral of masculine violence, ultimately needing to be saved by the protagonists.

There's an in-depth hostess management minigame where you can date your workers in 0, which is played completely straight and never really questioned. It's pretty clearly tailored to men and any sort of 'fanservice' that could be more for straight women is played for laughs with the joke being a variant of mild homophobia. Tons of the fun silly stuff in the games are tailored to "the male gaze" as they call it.

AFAIK a lot of these incongruencies can be found in the actual Yakuza, where the political authority and power of women seems to be very limited.

This is a Tl;Dw video at 35 minutes but I guess I am curious what solutions he recommends besides "rely less on damsel plot devices." Yakuza 7's turn towards fantasy elements does also open the door to more playable active women. But I imagine the structure of the stories they tell so far have been limited by trying to imitate the macho fucked up culture of the Yakuza, and there will always be a trade off between representing more of the audience in healthy roles on screen and being realistic about organized criminals that are pretty horrible and, frankly, misogynistic, in real life.

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Doe posted...

being realistic about organized criminals that are pretty horrible and, frankly, misogynistic

See that's the thing. It's not as bad if those who do that are clearly portrayed as in the wrong. What the video is against is when there's unhealthy behavior against women as framed by the protagonists or the writing in general.

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Like a Dragon is my intro to the series and I couldn't help but laugh when when I saw all the jobs available for male characters and then the ones available for female characters

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CyricZ posted...

See that's the thing. It's not as bad if those who do that are clearly portrayed as in the wrong. What the video is against is when there's unhealthy behavior against women as framed by the protagonists or the writing in general.

Yeah, they could certainly stand to do a better job.

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They don't mention Judgment, but the sequence where you play as Saori sure is something on this front.

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/topic

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Cobra1010 posted...

/topic

i am confident he looks better than you

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Antifar posted...

They don't mention Judgment, but the sequence where you play as Saori sure is something on this front.

Yeah he hasn't played 6/J/LAD yet as I understand it.

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Adoration of criminals like the mafia/yakuza is always going to have various socially unhealthy aspects to it and expecting it to change is weird. The culture of the criminal underground is not something you can really make PC even when it's partially silly like Yakuza.

At least there's a transcript, so I don't have to sit through thirty-five minutes of youtube whining.

A lot of people ITT are really upset over a video they didn't watch lmao

Also Yakuza isn't for men, it's for manchildren. Big diff.

CyricZ posted...

Don't get too distracted by the title.

But this is a conversation I for one have been wanting to have for a long time.

Then have the conversation. Explain your points in writing instead of expecting people to watch a 34 minute video.

I skimmed through the video and this guy really needs to get to the point. Like holy shit his point drags on in multiple parts in the video. In essence, he wants the writers to create characters that men can look up to as positive figures. The type of man that other men should strive to be, blah blah. I really don't think Yakuza, of all series, should be that lol.

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PepsiWithCoke posted...

Jesus christ, not this shit.

Western crybabies need to stop trying to change Japanese games.

DarkProto05 posted...

It is targeting men. So what? Don't play if you don't like it.

Lairen posted...

Im going to go support them more than i was before. Thanks stupid youtuber

Imagine unironically getting pissy over a youtube video title just because you're afraid it challenges your non-existent masculinity.

Is it toxic masculinity to say someone has a non-existent masculinity because they got pissy over something? Seems getting pissy over something as innocuous as this pales in comparison to saying someone has a non-existent masculinity but perhaps just me.

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I want to fuck the chick from Yakuza 2 >_> I hate how they pretty much just drop her from the series in 3

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Watched about half of it. Pretty good video. Too bad a lot of gamers like itt are too fragile to accept this valid critique of it

NoxObscuras posted...

Then have the conversation.

I do. Largely in Yakuza spaces, not really on CE. It's something that I've wanted to put into either video or written essay form for a while now, but I've had a tough time putting all my thoughts together cohesively or to be in a state where I'm free of distractions to get the time to focus on it.

I mentioned this in a reddit thread earlier today and someone pointed the video out to me and I was pleasantly surprised that someone put the work in, and very recently no less, and I want to boost him for it.

NoxObscuras posted...

I skimmed through the video and this guy really needs to get to the point.

He states his points in the first minute of the video: The Yakuza series uses women characters poorly to the point of misogyny (his words), and it clashes with the target audience of the games being adult men.

He then goes on to alternately provide examples of the use of women characters in the series and back up his assertion that the series is written for adult men in its complex narratives and themes, using words that the developers have said about the series.

And I guess if you're seeking to find a tying thread between the two, he mentions it late in the video, which is to ask: "If the series is for men, then the question is, what kind of men?"

And if you've played through the Yakuza games and feel that it's not the series that could be that, I wonder if you're playing the same series that I have.

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I refuse to play a video game series that doesn't respect women

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Are there female Yakuza members?

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M_Live posted...

Will watch. As fan of Yakuza, yeah, women are treated like garbage in those games

What members of a criminal gang treated women bad? Wow never saw that one coming!

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ITT: People that aren't Yakuza fans whining about SJWs ruining gaming

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It is true, but I feel this is an issue with a lot of Japanese games.

CyricZ posted...

"If the series is for men, then the question is, what kind of men?"

Its fictional game.

I think we have already established with the whole violence in video games doesnt translate to the real world. Just like running through an airport shooting civilians in Call of Duty doesnt make you a real life terroist, doesnt mean if you play Yazkuza that you are going to start beating your wife.

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Real question cause I know literally nothing about the real Yakuza. How are women treated in the real Yakuza? Do they have high positions and get just asmuch respect as men in the field?

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Lost_All_Senses posted...

Real question cause I know literally nothing about the real Yakuza. How are women treated in the real Yakuza? Do they have high positions and get just asmuch respect as men in the field?

One Rie Alkamade did some investigation into this.

http://www.japansubculture.com/wives-of-the-yakuza/

In short, women in the yakuza have existed but are considered a major cultural rarity. You will never see a woman as a grunt level, but the phenomenon of "godmother" female bosses is something that has existed, usually as a result of the male boss passing away and his wife taking charge of their group. The group would afford the wife the same respect they afforded their boss, because she's seen as an extension of the boss.

But data on this is really scarce because, after all, it's crime stuff that likes to keep a low profile.


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