Current Events > Oh, so Hollow Knights map sucks.....

(+) Yeah! (+)

averagejoel posted...

can you elaborate on how Hollow Knight looks unfinished?

Lack of details. Like a serious lack of details.

---

Lairen posted...

Its a definite strike. i just explained why.

"I don't like this protagonist as much" is not a strike against it

---

Lairen posted...

Lack of details. Like a serious lack of details.

you mean having stylized rather than strictly realistic graphics?

---

Lairen posted...

Lack of details. Like a serious lack of details.

Idk sometimes simple design is good and I think the Knight is a perfect example of a great simplistic character design. It is immediately recognizable and stands out. But each to their own.

It had like basically no budget and went with a minimalistic style. The lack of detail of HK versus Miriam is staggering.

I get now its the little budget that could versus the millionaire IGA. I guess with that in mind HK is much more impressive.

---

Lairen posted...

Lack of details. Like a serious lack of details.

It's a variant on the "silhouette platformer" fad from a few years ago.
Really, this is one of the least awful games from that fad, give or take maybe Outland.

Lairen posted...

It had like basically no budget and went with a minimalistic style. The lack of detail of HK versus Miriam is staggering.

I get now its the little budget that could versus the millionaire IGA. I guess with that in mind HK is much more impressive.

yeah, so your point is that you don't like the art style. again, that's fine. but it's not the same thing as the artstyle being bad. "more detail" =/= "better"

---

averagejoel posted...

yeah, so your point is that you don't like the art style. again, that's fine. but it's not the same thing as the artstyle being bad. "more detail" =/= "better"

Splitting hairs here.....

---

Lairen posted...

Splitting hairs here.....

I'm engaging directly with the words that you said. would you prefer I make stuff up and engage with that instead?

---

I want Silk Song to come out. It's the only game I care about.

---

TC's three points against the game are all opinions.

I love the map choice, makes it feel like I have to bother to learn the world rather then the "hand holding" most games do giving you a GPS tracking system and glaringly obvious waypoint markers. Its great to have to triangulate your position, because of this, I never even ended up using the compass charm.

Story? A front and center narrative does not make a game better, as someone else said, if thats your preferred method of storytelling thats fine but just because the lore is background doesnt make it any less rich.

Also I highly disagree on the graphics/artstyle. Hollow Knight has some of the most gorgeous art and backgrounds/etc that I have ever seen in a game. Comparing it to Bloodstained is a joke. The half baked 3D models in that game, while not bad are still very behind when even compared to a low powered console like the Switch.

Its okay, you dont have to like Hollow Knight but your opinion sucks lol.

---

deoxxys posted...

TC's three points against the game are all opinions.

I love the map choice, makes it feel like I have to bother to learn the world rather then the "hand holding" most games do giving you a GPS tracking system and glaringly obvious waypoint markers. Its great to have to triangulate your position, because of this, I never even ended up using the compass charm.

Story? A front and center narrative does not make a game better, as someone else said, if thats your preferred method of storytelling thats fine but just because the lore is background doesnt make it any less rich.

Also I highly disagree on the graphics/artstyle. Hollow Knight has some of the most gorgeous art and backgrounds/etc that I have ever seen in a game. Comparing it to Bloodstained is a joke. The half baked 3D models in that game, while not bad are still very behind when even compared to a low powered console like the Switch.

Its okay, you dont have to like Hollow Knight but your opinion sucks lol.

I guess a piece of shit is actually good because its suppose to stink.

---

Lairen posted...

I guess a piece of shit is actually good because its suppose to stink.

I mean but its had outstanding success and regarded as one of the best indies and metroidvanias of all time thats pretty contradictory to what you said.

---

deoxxys posted...

I mean but its had outstanding success and regarded as one of the best indies and metroidvanias of all time thats pretty contradictory to what you said.

Super metroid and Sotn are rated higher but i guess this isnt saying much.

But that statements referring any negative being a design choice. Which can be said about literally any flaw such as shit being good because it stinks by design.

---

I dont feel like reading all of this topic but if this is closer to say Metroid 1 than Zero Mission then yeah that sucks.

---

Damn_Underscore posted...

I dont feel like reading all of this topic but if this is closer to say Metroid 1 than Zero Mission then yeah that sucks.

Maybe the art style but considering you have to "fill the map out yourself" then yeah i guess its closer to M1 than ZM....

---

Not to make excuses for the poor map, but I thought they did a good enough job making rooms look unique that I never found myself needing the map. Every area was memorable. Not like identical corridors forever original Metroid.

---

Im copying someone with the same opinion as mine. Dont worry most responses were like the ones i got here:

I really dont like how they designed the map in this game
I am enjoying Hollow Knight and willing to invest more time in it, but the map kind of sucks. Im used to games of this genre giving you a map that actually opens up and expands in real time as you explore new areas, but this is just...
Fair enough that each area you unlock has no visible map and you have to buy one, but the fact that even after you buy a map, some areas still dont even show up on the map until you explore them blindly and have to rest at a bench in order to reveal the actual paths youve been through is not enjoyable.
Its not even that I want the map to show me every location in any given area. Its just that uncovering new sections of the map should be in real-time and not have you wandering around empty space on the map until you rest and then it shows you where youve been like its some fucking puzzle.
You should know where the fuck you are on the map. The fact you have to buy some bullshit just to see your icon on the map is dumb too, but its not a big deal. And this might not seem like a big deal either, but it is for me, because I get lost often and its ridiculously frustrating.
Oh, heres a new area. How exciting. But wait... I need a map first. Ugh. Let me try to find that fucking weevil guy and purchase it.
Great. Now I have a map. Its a start, but it still doesnt show you everything. Or at least reflect your exploration in REAL TIME. No, I have to blindly stumble through similar looking rooms in the hopes of finding a bench, or blindly try to backtrack to the bench I found earlier just to show me a map of an area I ALREADY DISCOVERED. And then I have to blindly explore the next area, etc.
What the fuck? I dont care how good this game is. This map system is a garbage fire the likes of which I have never seen before.
I swear, if somebody comes up and tries to give me some nonsense IT GIVES YOU A GOOD SENSE OF EXPLORATION THIS WAY. ITS IMMERSIVE type of reasoning, just dont.
Im about to give up on this game, because of this. Im serious. I cant believe this design decision.
Does anyone actually like this map? Fucks sake, the game looks and plays good, but the map is a borderline deal-breaker. Give me the strength to continue playing

---

Lairen posted...

Its just that uncovering new sections of the map should be in real-time and not have you wandering around empty space on the map until you rest and then it shows you where youve been like its some fucking puzzle.
You should know where the fuck you are on the map. The fact you have to buy some bullshit just to see your icon on the map is dumb too, but its not a big deal. And this might not seem like a big deal either, but it is for me, because I get lost often and its ridiculously frustrating.

why "should" that be the case? so that you personally get more enjoyment out of it?

---

averagejoel posted...

why "should" that be the case? so that you personally get more enjoyment out of it?

Ill try to act a little more mature as you seem to be:

I guess ive grown accustomed to it since its such a norm for the genre and i like it as it were.

To manually fill the map makes it seem like the opposite of what it should do and i dont find filling it fun.

Sure, maturely, ill admit its a design choice i simply dont enjoy. Usually i glance at the map and pick where im going. I feel the gameplay slows if i actively feel lost and need to look around.

I just played sotn again and shadow complex: check map -> go there. Boom feels good.

Fine: this is all my opinion and i just dont like it because i feel a momentum with checking map and going versus having to fill a map out.

---

Its overturning a conventional mechanic and shifting it into a lore and gameplay mechanic all of its own. Youre free to dislike it, but it seems youre edging into the I dislike it, so you should as well zone in a lot of your back and forth.

Lairen posted...

Ill try to act a little more mature as you seem to be:

I guess ive grown accustomed to it since its such a norm for the genre and i like it as it were.

To manually fill the map makes it seem like the opposite of what it should do and i dont find filling it fun.

Sure, maturely, ill admit its a design choice i simply dont enjoy. Usually i glance at the map and pick where im going. I feel the gameplay slows if i actively feel lost and need to look around.

I just played sotn again and shadow complex: check map -> go there. Boom feels good.

Fine: this is all my opinion and i just dont like it because i feel a momentum with checking map and going versus having to fill a map out.

at its core, Hollow Knight is a game about exploring. the functionality of the map, whether or not you like it, is effective at contributing to the concept

---

Nemu posted...

Its overturning a conventional mechanic and shifting it into a lore and gameplay mechanic all of its own. Youre free to dislike it, but it seems youre edging into the I dislike it, so you should as well zone in a lot of your back and forth.

Everyone would prefer everyone agrees with them.

If you like Game X but no one else does then you wont get more Game X so theres an actual benefit to people agreeing/you sharing the popular opinion.

---

You could have most the map filled if you spend as much time on it as you do here

---

WashYourHands posted...

You could have most the map filled if you spend as much time on it as you do here

Im on my phone a lot. Ive been extremely busy with my wife getting a new job, her car needing tons fixed today, my daughters birthday tomorrow and dinner with at my mothers with my family so i didnt get to even play games today. But when im waiting during these things i jump on my phone so.....

---

Trumble posted...

Once again, gameplay and story segregation exists for a reason.

Should be clear that I'm not saying HK is a bad game. Overall it's a very good game, but - especially around the map - it does have a few very bad design decisions.

it really doesnt. It quite literally makes sense why the map system is the way it is. Youre exploring the ruins of a very nearly forgotten civilization. It wouldnt make sense for you to always know exactly where you are or where you are going. Few dare to venture down into Hallownest. You have no map because no modern maps of the areas exist until you buy them from Cornifer.

Did you complain about Dark Souls also not having a map?

---