Current Events > it's crazy almost everyone used to think Marcus was a bad unit in Fire Emblem 7

(+) Yeah! (+)

cuz he was an experience thief or other dumb reasons

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I usually blow all my stat boosters on the jagen characters because I like seeing them kick maximum ass

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Garlands_Soul posted...

I usually blow all my stat boosters on the jagen characters because I like seeing them kick maximum ass

oh yeah that reminds me how people would say to not spend any boosters on already good units and use them on shitty ones to make them slightly less shitty. i also used to do this a lot as a kid, i think some people just get attached to certain units

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Garlands_Soul posted...

I usually blow all my stat boosters on the jagen characters because I like seeing them kick maximum ass

Same, I like having that one unit who can just charge around the battlefield doing what they want. If only they could all be like Seth...

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Xavier_On_High posted...

Same, I like having that one unit who can just charge around the battlefield doing what they want. If only they could all be like Seth...

That made me think of how ridiculous it was to me when i discovered outside maybe 3 missions it was actually easier to a do a ike solo run in path of radiance. Easier if you are like me and dont tolerate even a single unit dying.


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Marcus does start to fade towards mid-late game, because his growths are genuinely not great theyre not bad though, but his bases are great and he has a horse, so hell never be bad. Fantastic utility, at worst.

Of course, hes garbage if youre comparing him to Seth

i think seth is so busted that not even people back then thought he was bad

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The whole "being an experience hog" thing still matters early on in a playthrough. I feel like any time I use Marcus a decent amount early on, Eliwood and Lyn end up really underleveled for me and unable to do decent damage due to their shaky strength growths. Them being underleveled also costs me the chance to recruit Geitz later on, who I really like using in basically any playthrough of FE7.
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I still don't use ANY Jagen character in a FE game
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Everyone was looking at max level stats and almost nothing else. Availability and Base stats/skills matter.

I will still use L'Arachel in Sacred Stones even though she is considerably worse than every other caster not named Ewan and possibly Knoll.

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Experience stealing is a myth and only really happens if you are letting a character kill a disproportionate number of enemies on a map consistently.

But like if you have a team of 8, including Marcus, and everyone is floating around an even number of kills (though it hardly needs to be perfect), Marcus will be stealing no more experience than any other unit, he'll just be doing it faster and more efficiently.

And especially early game who are you really splitting with? Matthew just needs to be able to get the Silver card and can otherwise be replaced by Legault when you get him so he doesn't need experience. Your main Lord isn't promoting forever so he has time to catch up. Serra/Pricilla use an entirely different experience pool. Erk/Lucius are going for entirely different kinds of enemies. Rebecca/Lyn/Guy/Wil/Bartre/Dorcus are barely worth using. Your Cavalier(s)/Florina will have no problem largely keeping up with Marcus. Hector/Oswin still have their use as tanky buff dudes regardless.

mooreandrew58 posted...

That made me think of how ridiculous it was to me when i discovered outside maybe 3 missions it was actually easier to a do a ike solo run in path of radiance. Easier if you are like me and dont tolerate even a single unit dying.

Ike solo run isn't even close to the easiest of solo runs in a game with Oscar and Titania.

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*falls into a pitfall*

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It's crazy that there's a decent number of people who still think this way and won't budge even when shown that their arguments against it don't hold up under scrutiny (namely, FE7 Marcus never truly falls off at all, he stops being dominant but he's never worse than good, using him doesn't prevent your other units from being good or able to handle the late game, especially since FE7 gives you some pretty good units late game, etc)

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I will say I don't like using prepromotes because I just like raising my units and seeing them grow. Doesn't make prepromotes bad, they just don't mesh well with my way of enjoying the games.

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Delirious_Beard posted...

i think seth is so busted that not even people back then thought he was bad

Then they followed up with Titania who, while not as broken, is still really damn good

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DeadBankerDream posted...

I will say I don't like using prepromotes because I just like raising my units and seeing them grow. Doesn't make prepromotes bad, they just don't mesh well with my way of enjoying the games.

Oh, I rarely play "optimally" myself as well.

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Remember the good old days when you thought that dancers and prepromotes in general were bad? Don't lie, you all had that phase too.
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I never thought dancers were bad or met anyone who did.

Pretty sure its an internet meme to pretend that's an opinion that existed.

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he sucks cause he gets like 2 exp per kill, killed everything in one battle early game, and make the rest of your team shitty when you go later if you use him too much.

also makes the beginning too easy to use him, so i didn't use him.

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DeadBankerDream posted...

I never thought dancers were bad or met anyone who did.

Pretty sure its an internet meme to pretend that's an opinion that existed.

Now granted I'm not sure how common a pitfall it actually is, but they're definitely the kind of support unit that a new player might overlook. Like, my first game was Sacred Stones, and I never bothered using Tethys because "I could just deploy another combat unit instead". Sacred Stones never really challenged me to the extent where I had to get good at actually using my support units, so it never really hit me just how OP dancers can be until I played Path of Radiance and the occasional rom hack. What finally made me realize that dancers are good was giving Reyson Boots and the Knight Ring, good lordy was that a fun playthrough. Nowadays whenever I go back to an older game or try out a new rom hack I'll actually make an effort to incorporate dancers into my army because I'm a decent enough player now to actually try and make the most of them.
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God the arguments we had in the FE7 forums about Marcus. It did take me longer than I cere to admit to come around to it but I did eventually. You couldnt really refute the logic

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DeadBankerDream posted...

I never thought dancers were bad or met anyone who did.

Pretty sure its an internet meme to pretend that's an opinion that existed.

If you find old character guides from when the GBA games were new you see it cropping up a bit. And you still come across people now and then who think dancers are just okay instead of great, or who pick one specific dancer in the series to insist isn't very good for questionable reasons.

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Gheb posted...

Ike solo run isn't even close to the easiest of solo runs in a game with Oscar and Titania

Its the only one i can comment on since its the only one ive done. Outside 3 missions I felt unstoppable once I got max level

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Ike solo kind of sucks because you spend basically the entire game locked to 1 range when enemies have tons of 2 range so you just take forever to make progress. Path of Radiance is part of that stretch of Fire Emblem where not having good 1-2 range combat really sucks

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Panthera posted...

Ike solo kind of sucks because you spend basically the entire game locked to 1 range when enemies have tons of 2 range so you just take forever to make progress. Path of Radiance is part of that stretch of Fire Emblem where not having good 1-2 range combat really sucks

Eh im not that into fire emblem to really grasp what you are saying. Only played 7 and path of radiance. I ditched Nintendo for the longest time and just nevee picked the series back up. I need to get back into it but so many games have come out since then

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mooreandrew58 posted...

Eh im not that into fire emblem to really grasp what you are saying. Only played 7 and path of radiance. I ditched Nintendo for the longest time and just nevee picked the series back up. I need to get back into it but so many games have come out since then

As a sword-only character Ike does not have access to Javelins or Hand Axes. So if any enemies attack him from 2 range he has no ability to counter attack. POR is a game full of a large number of low-quality enemies. So it is more important to just kill a bunch of people on enemy phase. Having 1-2 Range access means you can kill a whole lot more enemies on Enemy Phase.

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Gheb posted...

As a sword-only character Ike does not have access to Javelins or Hand Axes. So if any enemies attack him from 2 range he has no ability to counter attack. POR is a game full of a large number of low-quality enemies. So it is more important to just kill a bunch of people on enemy phase. Having 1-2 Range access means you can kill a whole lot more enemies on Enemy Phase.

Ah. Apparently not that important though. Not on a solo run anyways.

To be fair I dont think ike would survive later levels if not for that ability to randomly heal himself while dealing massive damage to enemies.

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Paladins in general were super OP in FE7

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It'd probably be easier to list FE games where Paladins weren't dominant.

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Gheb posted...

It'd probably be easier to list FE games where Paladins weren't dominant.

Three Houses!
If only because everyone can get on a wyvern instead and they nerf your growths for so much as looking at a horse.

Marcus destroyed my very first run as a kid, because I abused him and got to the Sonia gaiden without anyone being good enough to actually kill. I kind of swore off of Jagens after that.

I know how good they are now, though. But damn did I avoid them like the plague for a long time after that.

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ElatedVenusaur posted...

Three Houses!
If only because everyone can get on a wyvern instead and they nerf your growths for so much as looking at a horse.

The speed growth nerfs are super immaterial. 1 point of speed every 10 levels in a game where there is a bunch of ways to fix stats and speed is actually less important than the average FE game.

But yes, competition with Wyverns as well as the incredible importance of Death Blow is why Cavalier/Paladin isn't dominating. That being said, it's still a very strong class and almost always an excellent end game choice for any unit that either has difficulty getting wings (like Dimitri) or because you already have enough flyers (because limited Battalions).

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Also, Bow Knight Leonie is fun.

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Musourenka posted...

Also, Bow Knight Leonie is fun.

Was so much fun

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