Current Events > I feel like MCU does women a disservice by not treating them as equals.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Watching Loki and every 13 seconds is him being humiliated.
Iron Man and Thor are embarrassed every minute in their movies.
Hulk/Banner is a walking joke.

It makes them human, flawed and relatable. Despite their superpowers

Compare to the female characters who are all flawless and shown with reverence . Talking down to everyone all of whom are less intelligent and skilled than they are.

Black Panthers sister, pepper Potts, Captain Marvel ,black Widow ,

There's a reason why people remember Coulson but not Maria Hil

Their role on the story is to outsmart and downtalk the men, which in turn makes them extensions of the men. Which in turn makes them weak characters.

And that Endgame fight where everyone Is fighting together to the death. Instead of fighting together as equals to save the world, All the girls wander off and become their own unit... That's not empowering, its segregating.

It's like they think women are too weak to handle being complicated relatable flawed characters or being the butt of jokes.

I think that's long term harmful to feminism

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Well, this topic is going to go over super well.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Watching Loki and every 13 seconds is him being humiliated.
Iron Man and Thor are embarrassed every minute in their movies.
Hulk/Banner is a walking joke.

It makes them human, flawed and relatable. Despite their superpowers

Compare to the female characters who are all flawless and shown with reverence . Talking down to everyone all of whom are less intelligent and skilled than they are.

Black Panthers sister, pepper Potts, Captain Marvel ,black Widow ,

There's a reason why people remember Coulson but not Maria Hil

Their role on the story is to outsmart and downtalk the men, which in turn makes them extensions of the men. Which in turn makes them weak characters.

And that Endgame fight where everyone Is fighting together to the death. Instead of fighting together as equals to save the world, All the girls wander off and become their own unit... That's not empowering, its segregating.

It's like they think women are too weak to handle being complicated relatable flawed characters or being the butt of jokes.

I think that's long term harmful to feminism

https://imgur.com/My8cn0L

This is why I didn't like Lady Olenna's character in Game of Thrones. Her only purpose was to down talk all the men, which means she needed men in the scene to be an interesting character, meaning she is not an interesting character by herself.

Metal_Bug posted...

This is why I didn't like Lady Olenna's character in Game of Thrones. Her only purpose was to down talk all the men, which means she needed men in the scene to be an interesting character, meaning she is not an interesting character by herself.

https://imgur.com/My8cn0L

It's kind of a lose lose situation.

If you make female characters human, people are gonna outrage that they seem weak and vulnerable

If you make them godly, people are gonna complain that they're plot devices

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I did think it was an odd way to pander by having all the females unite in endgame

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Master Kazuya posted...

It's kind of a lose lose situation.

If you make female characters human, people are gonna outrage that they seem weak and vulnerable

If you make them godly, people are gonna complain that they're plot devices

Yet Jessica Jones did it.
Dini Batverse did it

It's not like it can't be done, I just think the Hollywood writers are lazy

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Yet Jessica Jones did it.

Jessica Jones arc revolved entirely around getting over the abuse of a man

It was like watching someone talk about their shitty ex for 8 hours

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Yet Jessica Jones did it.
Dini Batverse did it

It's not like it can't be done, I just think the Hollywood writers are lazy

It's not that Hollywood writers are lazy, it's that they're trying hard to not make women weak or vunerable to appeal to misogynists like you, so sometimes they overcompensate.

Shuri snarking Bruce Banner in Infinity War was probably meant to endear her to some fans, but Im sure its not a coincidence that it just made her seem annoying.

Her encouragement of Ross as a pilot in the proper BP movie was a better endearing moment for me

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Master Kazuya posted...

If you make them godly, people are gonna complain that they're plot devices

Captain Marvel literally is a deus ex machina. So much so, that her movie/character was released between Infinity War and Endgame, because the writers knew they had written themselves into a corner.

JoelMiller95 posted...

appeal to misogynists like you,

wtf

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JoelMiller95 posted...

It's not that Hollywood writers are lazy, it's that they're trying hard to not make women weak or vunerable to appeal to misogynists like you, so sometimes they overcompensate.

youre right but i dont wanna admit it i just wanna find a way to insult you

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Ermac posted...

I did think it was an odd way to pander by having all the females unite in endgame

My issue with that is it would have been better if they hadn't done such a shit job of building female heroes beforehand. I actually like Captain Marvel, but outside of her, the scene really just showcased how badly women were established in the MCU.

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Metal_Bug posted...

This is why I didn't like Lady Olenna's character in Game of Thrones

Was she the "Tell Cersei it was me" old woman? I'm pretty sure she talked down to everybody, it's just that being medieval times, almost all of the people who mattered were men. Though it's been a few years so maybe I remember wrong.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

wtf

it's Barenziah Boy Toy, or something like that

but yea, I don't feel like the characters necessarily need to feel weak, or anything, but it'd be refreshing to see someone as "flawed" as Peter Parker, for example, and not as some steamrolling badass.

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g0ldie posted...

it's Barenziah Boy Toy, or something like that

but yea, I don't feel like the characters necessarily need to feel weak, or anything, but it'd be refreshing to see someone as "flawed" as Peter Parker, for example, and not as some steamrolling badass.

I guarantee the incels will never complain about John Wick being too badass, now imagine if he was a woman.

JoelMiller95 posted...

I guarantee the incels will never complain about John Wick being too badass, now imagine if he was a woman.

I've never seen those movies but James Bond fucking sucks

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MCU: Men smile and crack jokes. Women are moody and make quips.

JoelMiller95 posted...

I guarantee the incels will never complain about John Wick being too badass, now imagine if he was a woman.

I don't watch those movies for that exact reason.

What about Nebula?

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JoelMiller95 posted...

I guarantee the incels will never complain about John Wick being too badass, now imagine if he was a woman.

So The Bride from Kill Bill? Cause she has a higher body count in a single movie IIRC

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JoelMiller95 posted...

I guarantee the incels will never complain about John Wick being too badass, now imagine if he was a woman.

How are the women in John Wick movies treated in comparison to the men?

JoelMiller95 posted...

I guarantee the incels will never complain about John Wick being too badass, now imagine if he was a woman.

you mean Kill Bill? The great movie series that nobody complains about? The difference is theres a solo protagonist in those movies where in the movies TCs describing theirs multiple.. drawing comparisons between protagonists is totally ok.

i know tc has a history of being wrong but cmon now youre just being grumpy

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JoelMiller95 posted...

I guarantee the incels will never complain about John Wick being too badass, now imagine if he was a woman.

no one's saying that women characters can't be badass, just that in the MCU, the male characters also often have bumbling/goofy qualities to them, and it stands out when it's not the case for the women, too.

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Metal_Bug posted...

This is why I didn't like Lady Olenna's character in Game of Thrones. Her only purpose was to down talk all the men, which means she needed men in the scene to be an interesting character, meaning she is not an interesting character by herself.

Nobody is an interesting character by themselves.

They are defined by their interactions with other characters.

g0ldie posted...

no one's saying that women characters can't be badass, just that in the MCU, the male characters also often have bumbling/goofy qualities to them, and it stands out when it's not the case for the women, too.

It's also a weird character to pick given that John Wick regularly gets his ass kicked, has been permanently maimed, fails on multiple occasions, and barely survives each movie he's in.

Like, if their purpose in bringing up John Wick was to try and find a character that is a "flawless badass" all that does is show that they haven't actually watched the John Wick movies.

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g0ldie posted...

no one's saying that women characters can't be badass, just that in the MCU, the male characters also often have bumbling/goofy qualities to them, and it stands out when it's not the case for the women, too.

indeed

"Badass" isn't a personality

Ripley from Aliens is deeper than the Grand Canyon compared to Captain Airhead

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jane and darcy have plenty of (comical)flaws and are loved for it.

valkyrie's introduction was as a mean drunk falling off her ship

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UnfairRepresent posted...

indeed

"Badass" isn't a personality

Ripley from Aliens is deeper than the Grand Canyon compared to Captain Airhead

This guy thinks he's not a misogynist.

TC makes a great point, and some posters here immediately insult him instead of trying to understand it.

Hes right. The women characters never seem to be the butt of a joke or make too many mistakes. It does give them a disadvantage at being interesting.

Its no coincidence that Nebula and Wanda are the most interesting. The ones that started as antagonists.

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g0ldie posted...

no one's saying that women characters can't be badass, just that in the MCU, the male characters also often have bumbling/goofy qualities to them, and it stands out when it's not the case for the women, too.

Men being badass and in the lead roles and women being inferior or more insignificant compared to the men has been the case for the vast majority of action entertainment for the past 50 years but I know you don't give a fuck about that.

lol, no one said anything about anyone, male or female, being inferior to anyone, that's just something you inferred, for some reason.

is Thor, for example, inferior to anyone in his movies because he became a more comedic character?

no, and in fact, it made him more liked by many viewers.

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AsucaHayashi posted...

jane and darcy have plenty of (comical)flaws and are loved for it.

valkyrie's introduction was as a mean drunk falling off her ship

Valk fell over once in a 2 hour movie where she routinely humiliated the men, defeated Hulk and Thor with ease

And then did bugger all after that.

She was a drunk who had no flaws related to being drunk.

If you had a badass and humiliation counter, Thor,Hulk and Loki would be like 4 - 135

Valk would be like 98 - 1

That's the difference

case and point I don't even remember her name

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Nebula went from oh her in GoTG to one of my favorites in Endgame. Shes what happens when you give a character enough space to develop.

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Metal_Bug posted...

This is why I didn't like Lady Olenna's character in Game of Thrones. Her only purpose was to down talk all the men, which means she needed men in the scene to be an interesting character, meaning she is not an interesting character by herself.

You serious? Literally her best scenes are the ones where she's destroying Cersei and where she's comforting Sansa and Margaery.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

There's a reason why people remember Coulson but not Maria Hil

Coulson got his own TV show. Hill did not.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer does this perfectly. There's tons of varieties of powerful women and all of them are flawed in their own way.

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g0ldie posted...

lol, no one said anything about anyone, male or female, being inferior to anyone, that's just something you inferred, for some reason.

is Thor, for example, inferior to anyone in his movies because he became a more comedic character?

no, and in fact, it made him more liked by many viewers.

You said that males are more known to be bumbling/goofy compared to the women. You're obviously saying that the men being shown to be more inferior to the women. Which is not even the case since Captain America and Iron Man who are pretty much the two central characters in the MCU have rarely been shown to be bumbling or goofy unless you count Iron Man cracking jokes as goofy?

JoelMiller95 posted...

You said that males are more known to be bumbling/goofy compared to the women. You're obviously saying that the men being shown to be more inferior to the women. Which is not even the case since Captain America and Iron Man who are pretty much the two central characters in the MCU have rarely been shown to be bumbling or goofy unless you count Iron Man cracking jokes as goofy?

i understood that one

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BettyWhite posted...

Buffy the Vampire Slayer does this perfectly. There's tons of varieties of powerful women and all of them are flawed in their own way.

It's ok for men to either be almost flawless badasses or flawed (except for Luke in TLJ or Thor in Endgame and a shit ton of other examples of incels complaing about male characters not being perfect enough). For women, they must only be flawed and that's how you do it perfectly.

Metal_Bug posted...

Captain Marvel literally is a deus ex machina. So much so, that her movie/character was released between Infinity War and Endgame, because the writers knew they had written themselves into a corner.

What does she achieve that would make her a Deus Ex Machina?

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Jerry_Hellyeah posted...

What does she achieve that would make her a Deus Ex Machina?

Tony in space.

JoelMiller95 posted...

It's ok for men to either be almost flawless badasses or flawed (except for Luke in TLJ or Thor in Endgame and a shit ton of other examples of incels complaing about male characters not being perfect enough). For women, they must only be flawed and that's how you do it perfectly.

Any character who isnt flawed is pretty lame

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JoelMiller95 posted...

You said that males are more known to be bumbling/goofy compared to the women. You're obviously saying that the men being shown to be more inferior to the women. Which is not even the case since Captain America and Iron Man who are pretty much the two central characters in the MCU have rarely been shown to be bumbling or goofy unless you count Iron Man cracking jokes as goofy?

that's you trying to derive some kinda meaning for something that wasn't there, again.

like, where does it say a bumbling and/or goofy person has to be inferior to anyone?

I just mean that they're not a totally serious person, that some part of them is stepped in absurdity, or that they flub up in a humorous manner.

even if that's not the case with Iron Man or Captain America, then so what? you still see some of those elements with them (Iron Man & Dr. Strange, Iron Man & Spider-Man, for examples) and with most of the leads in the MCU.

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Just as predicted.

Anyone else want some

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There's no female MCU main character I like, they're just too annoying and uptight
My boy Bruce Banner always gets the short end of the stick in this regard. Shuri outclassing him in the smarts and the Wakandan fighter lady looking at him with disapproval when he fell down in the Hulkbuster come to mind
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Any character who isnt flawed is pretty lame

So you also find Aragorn in LOTR lame?