Current Events > Do people like the 13th Doctor? (Doctor Who)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Not really feeling it so far.
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I like her a lot. She's got this energy I really like, she's a tinkerer and she exemplifies this personality point past Doctors have had where she figures something out, then puts 2 and 2 into someone's hands and gets them to make 4. It feels like she exemplifies a love of knowledge and learning, and she loves to share that same feeling of discovery when she figures something out with other people in the room. I love it a lot more than Moffat's tendency to go "I'm the doctor and I'm so clever, try and keep up everyone, off to the next brilliant exclamation because I'm the doctor and I'm so clever and amazing!".

With that being said, though - the material Jodie Whittaker is working with hasn't been great.

Off the top of my head, the episodes I've enjoyed have been the first two episodes of series 11, the Tsuranga Conundrum, Kerblam, Demons of the Punjab (which is a highlight of her run), the series 12 two-parter at the start, Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror, the Mary Shelley episode, the last two episodes of the season and the most recent new year special.

So basically, I like about half of the run - maybe a little less. And a few of my "liked" episodes are kinda contested in the fanbase, like the Tsuranga Conundrum - it was a serviceable monster of the week episode, warts and all.

The only episodes I would actively call bad are Orphan 53 and Arachnids in the UK, but it's not exactly peak Who all round. I tremendously enjoy Jodie Whittaker's Doctor though, and I'm hoping they're gonna knock it out of the park for series 13. I would still rank the past 2 seasons over most of Moffat's work, except for like series 7 and maybe a pass for series 5 with 2 incredible episodes.

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she's fine but her episodes are not

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I don't like any Doctor past Tennant

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Onepunch-Man posted...

I don't like any Doctor past Tennant

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Smith>Capaldi>Tennant>Tennant in S3 onwards.

I like Jodi and series 12 was very good imo *holds up flame shield*

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I didn't like Capaldi at first, but he grew on me.

Maybe this new one will too.
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Jodie is great, the writing isn't.
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Sir Cyrus posted...

Jodie is great, the writing isn't.

Haven't seen any with 13, but having watched 12 all I can say is that I bet any problems will be with the writing. Capaldi would have been one of the better ones if he had decent material to work with, and from what I've read it seems the writing went even more downhill with 13.


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Not really.

Jodie Whittaker is great in other things I've seen her in, so it's not a slight on her as an actress, her characterisation is just really bland, she's still not had that moment that makes you sit up and think "Yes, that's The Doctor, that's the person who is five steps ahead of everyone in the room!"

I think the big issue is that they tried to make the current TARDIS team feel like a group of friends, and arguably succeeded too well so that The Doctor just feels like an equal part of the group rather than the lead character.

It's telling that (HUGE spoilers for the most recent season, if you haven't seen it yet) Jo Martin had barely a dozen scenes as The Doctor throughout the season, and has had a more impactful take on the role than Jodie has across both her seasons. It's all down to how the chararacter is written - The Doctor shouldn't just be an equal part of an ensemble (coincidentally, this is also the problem I have with the Fifth Doctor - maybe they shouldn't dress the Doc in beige if they want them to have gravitas, haha)

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I only like tom baker no one else

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I tried to.

There are legit episodes where I got completely bored and detached. Never a good sign.

There are legit episodes where the moral is smashed in your face, and others where another potentially worthwhile moral is sidestepped to kill a monster.

There are attempts to add new layers on to the mythos that I feel are narrative dead-ends.

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3PiesAndAFork posted...

Haven't seen any with 13, but having watched 12 all I can say is that I bet any problems will be with the writing. Capaldi would have been one of the better ones if he had decent material to work with, and from what I've read it seems the writing went even more downhill with 13.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the case. I think the issue is that no-one could write a 4 person TARDIS team.

Ryan and Graham had a storyline in series 11, but it was resolved by the time season 12 came around so Ryan kept getting bumped to the back and Graham became a machine for one-liners. Yaz had no personality for the first half of series 11, though there's been some subtext between her and the Doctor ever since Arachnids (the episode where she got shafted by the script in favour of her own mother). I legitimately think there's been an overcrowding problem, or at least no-one has really utilised a proper A and B plot with the group splitting up as often as they should have.

Capaldi's Doctor was defined by his inconsistency. His first episode was arguably his greatest, where you can see a man out of place responding to not knowing who or what he is - and he leans into being a bastard in series 8, which ended up being more polarising than I thought it would be. Series 9 had the Sonic Sunglasses and him playing the guitar, and series 10 was him going through the wringer. He starts his run with no idea who he is, he spends the entire run changing, and as he regenerates he defines an ethos and a blueprint for his future incarnation to avoid the mistakes he made and retain all of the goodness he had gained. In a way, the end of his run recontextualizes a lot of it, and I kinda like that angle - but that doesn't make it good, or any less haphazard.

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Also TC, where are you up to in Thirteen's run?

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I like the actress, l like that they went with a group of companions, I don't like the actual execution for the show.

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CyricZ posted...

There are attempts to add new layers on to the mythos that I feel are narrative dead-ends.

I agree with everything else but this.

I get why people might not like the Timeless Child stuff, but I'll take an attempt like this over literally rebooting the universe and having a name so powerful that anyone who learns it can cause universal annihilation. The Timeless Child stuff is at least trying to set up mythos and character-building that later seasons and Doctors can expand upon in relation to their identity and relationship with their people, not just validating that The Doctor is the centre of the universe around which all of life and death revolves.

No hate if the latest storyline rubbed you the wrong way, I get why it's divisive, but I'm not going to let Moffat fans rub Eleven rebooting all of existence in my face and then have people tell me this plot point is a step too far.

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The writing for her character is terrible. Her morality makes no sense, her plans are convoluted and extremely stupid at multiple points, and none of the jokes she tell land. That's almost entirely on the writers though.

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MrMallard posted...

Yaz had no personality for the first half of series 11, though there's been some subtext between her and the Doctor ever since Arachnids (the episode where she got shafted by the script in favour of her own mother). I legitimately think there's been an overcrowding problem,

Very much so. Once they were done with Graham and Ryan's story and Yaz started to get a bit more limelight she really shone. I absolutely think she's the best companion of the "Fam", and her and the Doctor have great chemistry - not in a Tumblr-style "ship everyone" way, but in the more general way that both actresses just spark off each other and elevate each other's performances. But with Graham and Ryan still around even though they have nothing to do, even this pairing isn't given the time it's needed.

The ideal would be just Thirteen and Yaz, and whatever guest stars there are. But unfortunately it looks like they've fucked that potential already by bringing in Dan for the next season.


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I like her but the writing has taken a nose dive off a cliff.

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I've seen episodes from every era, and I've never seen a bad Doctor. As many have said ITT, I've only seen bad writing.

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Tom Clark posted...

Not really.

Jodie Whittaker is great in other things I've seen her in, so it's not a slight on her as an actress, her characterisation is just really bland, she's still not had that moment that makes you sit up and think "Yes, that's The Doctor, that's the person who is five steps ahead of everyone in the room!"

I think the big issue is that they tried to make the current TARDIS team feel like a group of friends, and arguably succeeded too well so that The Doctor just feels like an equal part of the group rather than the lead character.

It's telling that (HUGE spoilers for the most recent season, if you haven't seen it yet) Jo Martin had barely a dozen scenes as The Doctor throughout the season, and has had a more impactful take on the role than Jodie has across both her seasons. It's all down to how the chararacter is written - The Doctor shouldn't just be an equal part of an ensemble (coincidentally, this is also the problem I have with the Fifth Doctor - maybe they shouldn't dress the Doc in beige if they want them to have gravitas, haha)

This is it. That feeling that the doctor is always the smartest person in the room by several light years. Where did that go? Because that IS doctor who.

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Tom Clark posted...

Very much so. Once they were done with Graham and Ryan's story and Yaz started to get a bit more limelight she really shone. I absolutely think she's the best companion of the "Fam", and her and the Doctor have great chemistry - not in a Tumblr-style "ship everyone" way, but in the more general way that both actresses just spark off each other and elevate each other's performances. But with Graham and Ryan still around even though they have nothing to do, even this pairing isn't given the time it's needed.

The ideal would be just Thirteen and Yaz, and whatever guest stars there are. But unfortunately it looks like they've fucked that potential already by bringing in Dan for the next season.

I think not being saddled with a storyline to begin with gave Yaz a chance to grow organically, whereas it gave Ryan and Graham an expiration date. Mandip Gill has knocked it out of the park, and I really want series 13 to be her standout season.

With that being said, I do actually ship her and the Doctor lmao. My most popular fanfic, and my personal all-time favorite of all the stories I've ever written, is a Thasmin fic. But my appreciation for the character goes beyond just smashing her and 13 together like a couple of Barbie dolls, lol.

I totally get what you're saying about Dan, but I think Doctor Who can do a three-man squad. Nine, Eleven and Twelve did it to various degrees of success - Nine had a banger line-up of Rose and Jack Harkness, Eleven had Amy and Rory (which I mean... hit and miss imo) and Twelve had Bill and Nardole. I would prefer Yaz get a solo season, but if Dan is A) decent enough of a character and/or B) a massive shake-up to the formula, like a Doctor from 4 or 5 incarnations in the future who hijacks the TARDIS for a few episodes, I can live with Dan.

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Jodie is good, it's the writing that isn't so good this season. As others said, it feels like they've reduced the doctor to bolster everyone else. Making everyone else smarter/better isn't bad itself, but The Doctor should still be on another level beyond that regardless.

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pinky0926 posted...

This is it. That feeling that the doctor is always the smartest person in the room by several light years. Where did that go? Because that IS doctor who.

I think there's a point where it gets to be a bit much. That aspect really choked Eleven for me, because he was such an insufferable wanker about it at times. But Ten had these great moments where he's putting everything together on the fly and has that amazing breakthrough moment. I would argue that Thirteen represents the latter more than the former.

There's a very particular plot beat that I adore where The Doctor gives a character 2 and 2, and they help them along to eventually make four. Ten did it a bit, and Thirteen does it too. That's my favorite aspect of the character, and with Thirteen being an engineer or a tinkerer sort of character, it comes across as her being a lover of knowledge and really enjoying being able to share that with others.

I couldn't fucking stand when the Doctor would spout some wanky exposition, glance at the characters who couldn't grasp what he was talking about, and then tell them to keep up. That's my least favourite Doctor trait. Sometimes it's okay, sometimes it's funny, but it felt like most of Eleven's run was that and I'm so fucking sick of it.

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the actress is great, the writing is not.

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any standout stories from her run so far? I don't really care to watch the whole thing, but I like checking out each doctor. Haven't got around to her.

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MrMallard posted...

No hate if the latest storyline rubbed you the wrong way, I get why it's divisive, but I'm not going to let Moffat fans rub Eleven rebooting all of existence in my face and then have people tell me this plot point is a step too far.

Oh believe me I didn't like that either.

In fairness, Timeless Child has some merit of exploration. Honestly the part that was sticking in my head was the cyberization of the Time Lords. I just really didn't like that lol.

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Chibnall shit in a paper bag, then called it a script.

That's basically how I feel about the 13th Doctor run.

As for Jodie, she tried. But she wasn't the woman for the job either.

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PMarth2002 posted...

any standout stories from her run so far? I don't really care to watch the whole thing, but I like checking out each doctor. Haven't got around to her.

Demons of the Punjab is an incredible episode imo.

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CyricZ posted...

Oh believe me I didn't like that either.

In fairness, Timeless Child has some merit of exploration. Honestly the part that was sticking in my head was the cyberization of the Time Lords. I just really didn't like that lol.

oh yeah, I can respect that. The Time Lords have really copped it ever since the revival. I thought the designs kicked ass, but I hope it's undone as quickly as it was put into place.

And fwiw that snipe at Eleven was a general expression of frustration, not directed at you or anything. I'm just grumbling, is all.

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MrMallard posted...

Also TC, where are you up to in Thirteen's run?

I'm almost through Season 11.
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MrMallard posted...

Demons of the Punjab is an incredible episode imo.

Yeah, this is the best one.

I also really liked Rosa (although the villain was woeful), and the Spyfall two-parter is pretty good.

Prisoner of the Judoon is also probably pretty good, but I feel that how well it ends up being regarded may depend on how the rest of Thirteen's era plays out.

MrMallard posted...

I totally get what you're saying about Dan, but I think Doctor Who can do a three-man squad. Nine, Eleven and Twelve did it to various degrees of success - Nine had a banger line-up of Rose and Jack Harkness, Eleven had Amy and Rory (which I mean... hit and miss imo) and Twelve had Bill and Nardole. I would prefer Yaz get a solo season, but if Dan is A) decent enough of a character and/or B) a massive shake-up to the formula, like a Doctor from 4 or 5 incarnations in the future who hijacks the TARDIS for a few episodes, I can live with Dan.

My issue with bringing in Dan is more that after hitting on a genuinely good pairing with Thirteen and Yaz, they've already decided to add someone else. A team of three can and does work well, but with the upcoming season being shorter due to Covid (which of course wouldn't have been known at the time, so it's an unfortunate scenario that can't be helped), and new cast members getting more focus in their first few scripts for obvious reasons, I feel like now the focus is going to be shifted off The Doctor/Yaz dynamic for a disproportionate amount of the episodes we are getting. For once it's not Chibnall's fault, a full season would have allowed things to evolve better - and John Bishop is great, so I'm sure I'll enjoy Dan - it's just frustrating to see that they were finally right there with a TARDIS dynamic that worked, and it's being tinkered with immediately.

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But not in the name of @catboy

Is she at least hot? I don't watch Dr who

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PoundGarden posted...

Is she at least hot? I don't watch Dr who

Did u know many actors played in dr who before they played their iconic character in marvels