Poll of the Day > I just rewatched Gundam Wing..

(+) Yeah! (+)

and I am convinced Elon is trying to be Treize Khushrenada

In what way?

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He's going to get a crush on a young asian boy and get that boy to kill him?

Globalist
Weird fetish with space and ancient battles
Building advanced technologies without bureaucratic approval (Elon might be building an actual Gundam, lol)
Inspired a loyal following
Both are considered eccentric by their peers

*edit* also Treze was the original leader of Oz, who manufactured Mobile Suits for ESA. So also Tesla = Oz

Is he using weird, indirect tactics to show the evils of unmanned combat units?

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IronBornCorps posted...

Globalist
Weird fetish with space and ancient battles
Building advanced technologies without bureaucratic approval (Elon might be building an actual Gundam, lol)
Inspired a loyal following
Both are considered eccentric by their peers

"Those who are hated must remain strong. It would be the perfect motivation for OZ."

Seriously, though. If he were trying to be Treize, he'd be opposed to AI "driver-less cars" and leave his own organization in disgust over them pushing for it to replace human drivers.

Maybe he has speeches in his backyard while shooting his rifle, about how driverless cars do not appreciate the beauty of the open road?

"Seriously, though. If he were trying to be Treize, he'd be opposed to AI "driver-less cars" and leave his own organization in disgust over them pushing for it to replace human drivers."

maybe he is just waiting for driverless cars to come out to make a public move, he could be sabotaging them from behind the scenes.

IronBornCorps posted...

Maybe he has speeches in his backyard while shooting his rifle, about how driverless cars do not appreciate the beauty of the open road?

I always considered Treize's character arc as a manifesto against drones, before people even really knew what drones were. It was about civilian vs soldier casualties. Everything else was just show and narrative.

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I understand that, I certainly see the character as anti-automation.

Treze was also very loyal to Earth, while Elon would likely side with the Colonies given his stance on Mars.

My comparison is really more on their behavior and character, over their belief system, as they are almost complete opposite on that.

Both are rich aristocrats who like building giant space things

IronBornCorps posted...

My comparison is really more on their behavior and character, over their belief system, as they are almost complete opposite on that.

Both are rich aristocrats who like building giant space things

Well, if your comparison is that flimsy, why not compare Treize with Richard Branson, instead?
Hell, he's European and knighted, so it's a way better fit.

IronBornCorps posted...

My comparison is really more on their behavior and character, over their belief system, as they are almost complete opposite on that.

I must admit, even after my multiple rewatches, I am still entirely uncertain what part of his behaviour and character is genuine and how much was an act of sorts to get his points across.

IronBornCorps posted...

Both are rich aristocrats who like building giant space things

Many of those in Gundam.

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Nichtcrawler X posted...

I must admit, even after my multiple rewatches, I am still entirely uncertain what part of his behaviour and character is genuine and how much was an act of sorts to get his points across.

Are we talking about Elon or Treize?

I agree their are tons of those in Gundam, I just think Treize stood out just like Elon stands out among the other billionares.

IronBornCorps posted...

Are we talking about Elon or Treize?

I rewatched Gundam Wing more times than I watched individual pieces of footage about Musk.

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I'm sure you have. It was more a remark that the same could be said of Elon.

Haven't watched that show in years, and I bought it about 17 years ago

Back onto the show, what is wrong with Relina?

Heero is toxic af. How many times does he say he's going to kill her? How many times did he actually point a gun at her?(On her birthday!) Ain't no dick worth all that honey.

That soundtrack was a straight banger though

https://youtu.be/dWz2BWGxqMI

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IronBornCorps posted...

Back onto the show, what is wrong with Relina?

Heero is toxic af. How many times does he say he's going to kill her? How many times did he actually point a gun at her?(On her birthday!) Ain't no dick worth all that honey.

He's not toxic. He's on a mission and wants nothing to do with her, romantically.
She's just psychotic and needs professional help.

KodyKeir posted...

That soundtrack was a straight banger though

https://youtu.be/dWz2BWGxqMI

Damn right!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yELWNLJjK0c

I also love how it had like 3-4 entire CDs of (great) music that wasn't even in the damn show, mostly image songs by the characters' voice actors. Ronin Warriors did that, too. Unfortunately seems to be less common now.

Also, your username gave me a warning about posting, you better not get me modded...

streamofthesky posted...

He's not toxic. He's on a mission and wants nothing to do with her, romantically.
She's just psychotic and needs professional help.

I started out with what's wrong with Relina? Heero is a teenager who was trained since childhood by mad scientists to carry out missions and kill anyone in the way. Let's not even get into suicidal tendencies and how many times he's blown himself up. That's toxic behavior for anyone to be around, mission or not.

I'm not saying Heero is a static character throughout the show. I agree Relina is my main issue, in her constant pursuit. To an extent I believe Heero even knows he is toxic to be around, and avoids her.

Heero just keeps crying about that fucking dog lol

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elon is trying to be tony stark but is failing

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I enjoyed the show enough during rewatch, and would recommend it for sure.

I found during the rewatch I liked Wu Fei significantly less, and Quatre more.

I loved it when it was on Toonami, the dialogue in it is super cringey when I rewatched it a few years ago.

Did you also watch Endless Waltz?

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I haven't rewatched it yet, but I plan to. Endless Waltz isn't on Hulu.

IronBornCorps posted...

I started out with what's wrong with Relina? Heero is a teenager who was trained since childhood by mad scientists to carry out missions and kill anyone in the way. Let's not even get into suicidal tendencies and how many times he's blown himself up. That's toxic behavior for anyone to be around, mission or not.

I'm not saying Heero is a static character throughout the show. I agree Relina is my main issue, in her constant pursuit. To an extent I believe Heero even knows he is toxic to be around, and avoids her.

If Heero was interested in a relationship and psychologically abusing/manipulating Relina, I'd agree.
But his attitude is more of, "leave me the fuck alone, crazy lady" / "My training says to kill her, but I can't... damn it..."
So I just don't think it's fair to call him toxic when he's pretty clear and up front on his stance w/ her and it isn't some ploy to make her want him or anything.

He's also still a minor and trained since a small child to end himself rather than allow himself and his tech to fall into enemy hands, so it seems pretty callous to blame him for his "suicidal tendencies". Blame the scientists that trained them. They may have been desperate, but they still brainwashed child soldiers to do their bidding, basically.

What about when he stole Duo's Gundam parts after Duo helps him? Duo has a mission too and. He also jumped out of that hospital window and waited to the very last second to deploy his chut. The first act he constantly displays anti-social behavior.

I'm not saying he has displays these through the whole show. As you get into the back story, his motivations become more clear. After he blows himself up he also goes around to the family to atone for his mistake. There is a noticeable behavior switch after that, and it's moved even further once he starts using the Zero system.

I think it's unfair to use his mission as an excuse for his behavior, considering Duo and Quatre seem to have no problem working as a team, and not being completely closed off, and not coming off like a sociopath. I will admit Wu Fei has these characteristics way more than Heero, and Wu Fei doesn't really grow much as a character. His whole arc is around beating Treze and being a loner.

IronBornCorps posted...

What about when he stole Duo's Gundam parts after Duo helps him? Duo has a mission too and. He also jumped out of that hospital window and waited to the very last second to deploy his chut. The first act he constantly displays anti-social behavior.

Yeah, stealing from Duo was pretty crappy. :)
Not sure why you brought up the parachute thing, that was again him trying to kill himself, and (thankfully) losing the will to do it at the last second.

I'm not saying he has displays these through the whole show. As you get into the back story, his motivations become more clear. After he blows himself up he also goes around to the family to atone for his mistake. There is a noticeable behavior switch after that, and it's moved even further once he starts using the Zero system.

It was being duped into killing the pacifist faction by OZ that did that really, but yeah.

I think it's unfair to use his mission as an excuse for his behavior, considering Duo and Quatre seem to have no problem working as a team, and not being completely closed off, and not coming off like a sociopath. I will admit Wu Fei has these characteristics way more than Heero, and Wu Fei doesn't really grow much as a character. His whole arc is around beating Treze and being a loner.

I think Duo and Quattre are just really sociable by their nature, it probably goes against their training, if anything.
And 3/5 of the pilots are anti-social, so if anything, I'd call that the norm.
Wu Fei suffers the most of the five from not having their backstories included in the show. It strips him of a lot of character growth and understanding his viewpoint. But he does have another arc besides that, with his interactions w/ Noin and Sally Po.

EDIT: Back on the whole "toxic" thing, how fucked up is it that Relina's so blindly in one-sided love w/ Heero that she urges him to kill her own brother? Literally gets berated about how horrible that is immediately after, too. That's gotta be the single most toxic action in the whole show.

Wu Fei's interactions especially with Noin I found to be cumbersome, dated, and more annoying. He makes comments like "Of course, because you're a woman" more than once, and by the end of the show this isn't ever really addressed. They all just accept Wu Fei does things his own way.

I really think you are misunderstanding me. My criticism and what I referred to as toxic was the relationship between Heero and Relina. Yes, Heero has toxic behavior (he is an emotionally closed off assassin, of course he does). I cited the parachute thing because he did that when his Gundam was in no immediate danger of being captured, and he was just escaping from containment. So to say he did that to protect his mission from the enemies doesn't seem right, and I would call that suicidal behavior.

Also Relina is an extremely frustrating as a character. She definitely has father issues, and he nativity towards Heero is easily the most confusing part of the show. The show was created in the 90's by mostly men, in a country that still culturally holds a lot of contempt for women, so I expected the women characters to be delegated to support roles, and to be stereotypical caricatures.

IronBornCorps posted...

Wu Fei's interactions especially with Noin I found to be cumbersome, dated, and more annoying. He makes comments like "Of course, because you're a woman" more than once, and by the end of the show this isn't ever really addressed. They all just accept Wu Fei does things his own way.

He starts off that way, but realizes he's wrong over the course of the first half of the show.

IronBornCorps posted...

Also Relina is an extremely frustrating as a character. She definitely has father issues, and he nativity towards Heero is easily the most confusing part of the show. The show was created in the 90's by mostly men, in a country that still culturally holds a lot of contempt for women, so I expected the women characters to be delegated to support roles, and to be stereotypical caricatures.

I think Noin and Sally are pretty good characters and not caricatures. She's not around much, but Hilde, too.
Lady Une and Relina are kinda a mess, and Dorothy (like some male antagonists, too) has no real depth and is just evil. But I don't think every woman in the show is awful.

I liked Sally, and the only thing I didn't really like about Noin was she has a similar attitude towards Millardo as Relina does to Heero.

I did mean to type delegated to support roles OR (not and) caricatures. Besides Relina, every woman in the show is a supporting role. Noin was decorated in the military, would train cadets, and became leader of the Royal guard.

Hilde was fine too, but again just another support.

Lady Une was in fact messy. It's really how the women are just so thirsty for these crazy ass men that was my biggest issue. It's not really that big an issue considering some of the show's themes, and time period it was created.

IronBornCorps posted...

Duo has a mission too

Duo wasn't originally meant to be the pilot of Deathscythe, he was the mechanic. I don't recall if they ever explained what happened to the original pilot, (I think the scientist killed him for their own reasons) but the scientists essentially tossed Duo the keys and said good luck.

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Endless Waltz/Episode Zero stuff, let me think for a moment.

Heero - Was raised by the political activist who assassinated the original, pacifism propagating Heero Yuy. Who had a thing with either Relena's Grandmother or Great-Aunt (they were twins).

Duo - Raised in a Church Orphanage and that is all I remember.

Trowa - A random cleaner who was at the wrong place at the wrong time, when they actual Trowa Barton was shot by mechanics who disagreed with Dekim Barton's Operation Meteor.

Quatre - I do not remember anything adding much to his backstory beyond being the only non-testtube baby and the only son amongst his siblings.

Wu Fei - A scholar who at a young age, was wed in an arranged marriage to the women who was supposed to pilot the Shenlong. She died while protecting the colony and Wu Fei started calling the Shenlong "Nataku", the name he used to call his wife.

My main point, Operation Meteor was a complete mess and it seems everyone somehow decided on their own to not go through with it in the originally intended form.

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