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Current Events > Can anyone tell me what side I'm supposed to be on for Isreal stuff?

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ConfessPlease
05/12/21 4:26:12 PM
#1:


I honestly don't know enough to know which side is the good side and I don't know the whole story and I feel like its too complex to know.

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Mezcla
05/12/21 4:28:25 PM
#2:


its tough one because on one hand, sure the jewish people have some claim to that land
on the other, the people who created israel as a state had no right to do so at the expense of the Palestinian people
and since then israel hasn't been exactly NICE to Palestinian. you wanna talk about building a wall god DAMN. and killing kids that too.

but if you say anything bad about the state of Israel, you are labeled as an anti-Semite and told to stfu.

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Kuuko
05/12/21 4:28:55 PM
#3:


Neither is really a good guy

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Questionmarktarius
05/12/21 4:29:34 PM
#4:



That side.
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CADE FOSTER
05/12/21 4:30:03 PM
#5:


neither is good but i am sick of America funding Israels evil
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TreyFlowers
05/12/21 4:30:06 PM
#6:


Mezcla posted...
on the other, the people who created israel as a state had no right to do so at the expense of the Palestinian people

Literally this. Imagine if someone came in and said Washington DC is no longer American land, it's Saudi land for Saudi people.

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Davos
05/12/21 4:31:40 PM
#7:


Honestly no ones.
Nothing to do with us ultimately.

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Squall28
05/12/21 4:33:22 PM
#8:


From what I've read, the Palestinians seem to be in the right because the Israelites basically just came over and be like, get out of here. This is our land.

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Giant_Aspirin
05/12/21 4:35:17 PM
#9:


Palestine was getting along just fine until a bunch of other countries came along and stole their land then the people installed there started blowing them up.

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David1988
05/12/21 4:35:52 PM
#10:


One side doesnt have a problem with using their own citizens as human shields including children whereas the other side doesnt have a problem with slaughtering civilians and children, take your pick

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RetsuZaiZen
05/12/21 4:36:44 PM
#11:


Just be against Great Britain for being messy fucks...

Colonizing, taking shit, then leaving people to pick up the pieces.

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Wedge Antilles
05/12/21 4:37:23 PM
#12:


50 shades of morally grey

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Xavier_On_High
05/12/21 4:37:30 PM
#13:


As a rule, I would try to support the side that isn't committing human rights violations.

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Mezcla
05/12/21 4:37:35 PM
#14:


RetsuZaiZen posted...
Just be against Great Britain for being messy fucks...

Colonizing, taking shit, then leaving people to pick up the pieces.
hey hey now

dont forget the Dutch. and French.

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#15
Post #15 was unavailable or deleted.
Bolle_Henk_
05/12/21 4:38:45 PM
#16:


Israel sucks. Both parties are terrible,but the isreali's at least should've known better.

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mustachedmystic
05/12/21 4:39:57 PM
#17:


Squall28 posted...
From what I've read, the Palestinians seem to be in the right because the Israelites basically just came over and be like, get out of here. This is our land.
More like the British showed up, and said, this is our land. Then they were like. we're giving it to these guys over here, get out.

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GeneralSecura92
05/12/21 4:39:58 PM
#18:


Neither side is particularly worthy of support, but Israel is by far the lesser evil IMO.
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David1988
05/12/21 4:40:45 PM
#19:


Xavier_On_High posted...
As a rule, I would try to support the side that isn't committing human rights violations.

Which side is that? Pretty sure Hamas using their people as human shields counts as human rights violations

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ultimate reaver
05/12/21 4:40:57 PM
#20:


If it was literally any other country besides israel doing the things they have been doing for decades now they would be getting condemned in the same way people condemn somewhere like china for the terrible shit they do nowadays

But America has been from the ground up rehabilitating their image because of their support for everything they do and it's engrained so deep that it's even in our educational system. I will never forget a world history teacher in high school going on to us about the brutal shit Mossad did during Operation Wrath of God and trying to cast massacring the extended families of people tangentially related (or in some cases completely unrelated) to a terror attack in a positive light because "that's what has to be done to send a message"


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Xavier_On_High
05/12/21 4:42:00 PM
#21:


David1988 posted...
Which side is that?

If there was a clear answer to this, there wouldn't be a problem.


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creativerealms
05/12/21 4:44:12 PM
#22:


Both sides are bad but one side can cause far more damage then the other can. The Palestinians are at a far greater risk then the Israeli are.

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GeneralSecura92
05/12/21 4:45:27 PM
#23:


David1988 posted...
Which side is that? Pretty sure Hamas using their people as human shields counts as human rights violations
Hamas: *launches missiles from schools and hospitals*
Israel: *levels those schools and hospitals in return*
Hamas: "Look, those monsters are destroying our schools and hospitals!"
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SSJPurple
05/12/21 5:08:23 PM
#24:


If you dont know dont pick a side

Fuck em both

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legendary_zell
05/12/21 5:12:48 PM
#25:


GeneralSecura92 posted...
Hamas: *launches missiles from schools and hospitals*
Israel: *levels those schools and hospitals in return*
Hamas: "Look, those monsters are destroying our schools and hospitals!"


That's because they are. People are gonna be mad when you retaliate disproportionately and kill civilians when they retaliate for you colonizing them and killing civilians. Hamas is bad because they kill Israeli civilians and use Palestinians civilians as shields. The general principle is that killing civilians is bad and Israel does by far the most of it.

Hamas is sustained by the idea that Israel wants to destroy Arabs and Palestinians and take their lands. The Israeli mainstream to right wing is sustained by the idea that Palestinians and Arabs want to do that to them. But only one is actually doing it, even if they both want to and that's what sparks the cycle.

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CADE FOSTER
05/12/21 5:13:20 PM
#26:


America built and funded Israel iron dome system
we sell them military equipment
we give them 4.5 billion a year in welfare
And pretty sure Israel has nukes but they wont let the un inspect we sanction korea and iran cuz they want nukes
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LordFarquad1312
05/12/21 5:13:30 PM
#27:


It's a fucking war, not a football match

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creativerealms
05/12/21 5:14:34 PM
#28:


GeneralSecura92 posted...
Hamas: *launches missiles from schools and hospitals*
Israel: *levels those schools and hospitals in return*
Hamas: "Look, those monsters are destroying our schools and hospitals!"
Yeah but rockets that are not very powerful and didn't cause much damage compared to a highly armed force. Can't really compare the two. What Israel did was much more devastating and cost more lives. Both sides suck but this pretty much one side armed with stones and sticks and the other armed with cannons and swords. One will cause much more damage and kill more people.

That was sentance about the weapons was hyperbolic on purpose okay.

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GeneralSecura92
05/12/21 5:18:19 PM
#29:


legendary_zell posted...
That's because they are. People are gonna be mad when you retaliate disproportionately and kill civilians when they retaliate for you colonizing them and killing civilians. Hamas is bad because they kill Israeli civilians and use Palestinians civilians as shields. The general principle is that killing civilians is bad and Israel does by far the most of it.

Hamas is sustained by the idea that Israel wants to destroy Arabs and Palestinians and take their lands. The Israeli mainstream to right wing is sustained by the idea that Palestinians and Arabs want to do that to them. But only one is actually doing it, even if they both want to and that's what sparks the cycle.
If Israel truly wanted to exterminate the Palestinians, don't you think they would've done that at some point in the last 75 years?

And the Arabs definitely want to exterminate Israel. All the surrounding Arab countries have gone to war against Israel multiple times in the past. But Israel whooped their asses every time. The Arabs would do it in a heartbeat if they could, but they're just not capable of doing it.
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AteIierRyza3462
05/12/21 5:22:03 PM
#30:


I stand with Biden on this one

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iPhone_7
05/12/21 5:34:42 PM
#31:


Israel knows Hamas uses civilians as human shields yet they will still do targeted strikes on buildings rockets are fired from. How dare they.

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legendary_zell
05/12/21 6:14:21 PM
#32:


GeneralSecura92 posted...
If Israel truly wanted to exterminate the Palestinians, don't you think they would've done that at some point in the last 75 years?

And the Arabs definitely want to exterminate Israel. All the surrounding Arab countries have gone to war against Israel multiple times in the past. But Israel whooped their asses every time. The Arabs would do it in a heartbeat if they could, but they're just not capable of doing it.

They're slowly doing it. They want to do the same thing we Americans did to indigenous peoples here. They want the land, and they don't want the people. Whether they do that through specifically killing everyone or evictions, reservations, deportation etc is secondary.

Many people want to do bad things to them, but it's hard to separate that from the bad things that they do. But again, the key is that they are the ones actually doing the bad things and that's what generates the continuing hatred.


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CADE FOSTER
05/12/21 6:16:46 PM
#33:


Pretty sure the world would intervene if they genocided the palestinians of course maybe not see chinas uiygurs
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SplatterBrain
05/12/21 6:18:51 PM
#34:


Israelis break into Palestinian homes and forcibly remove the occupants. They've been doing this for decades. That alone should be enough to see which side is wrong here.
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GeneralSecura92
05/12/21 6:57:33 PM
#35:


legendary_zell posted...
They're slowly doing it. They want to do the same thing we Americans did to indigenous peoples here. They want the land, and they don't want the people. Whether they do that through specifically killing everyone or evictions, reservations, deportation etc is secondary.

Many people want to do bad things to them, but it's hard to separate that from the bad things that they do. But again, the key is that they are the ones actually doing the bad things and that's what generates the continuing hatred.
See, the thing is: all of this could be solved if the surrounding Arab countries would just say "y'know what Israel, we'll take all the Palestinians off your hands and you can have the land". That way, the Palestinians can live in peace with their Muslim brothers and Israel won't be bothered any more.

Except the Arabs don't give a fuck about the Palestinians. What this is all about is who controls Jerusalem. The Arabs don't want the Jews to have control over "their" holy city.

But since the Arabs can't beat Israel through military means, they're now trying to win in a war of public opinion. They try to paint Israel in a bad light so Israel's allies will abandon them, because if America stops supporting Israel, the Arabs might just have a shot at beating them. So they fund organisations like Hamas to keep launching attacks at Israel and use civilians and infrastructure as human shields so Israel will retaliate and look like the bad guys.

So imagine being Israel, with a hostile force within your borders launching missiles at and knifing your civilians at every turn. There's also a horde of enemies just outside your borders, waiting for your allies to turn their back on you for defending yourself so they can finally achieve their goal of destroying you and retaking their holy city. What are you supposed to do in that situation?
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Kakapo
05/12/21 6:59:54 PM
#36:


GeneralSecura92 posted...
See, the thing is: all of this could be solved if the surrounding Arab countries would just say "y'know what Israel, we'll take all the Palestinians off your hands and you can have the land". That way, the Palestinians can live in peace with their Muslim brothers and Israel won't be bothered any more.

Except the Arabs don't give a fuck about the Palestinians. What this is all about is who controls Jerusalem. The Arabs don't want the Jews to have control over "their" holy city.

But since the Arabs can't beat Israel through military means, they're now trying to win in a war of public opinion. They try to paint Israel in a bad light so Israel's allies will abandon them, because if America stops supporting Israel, the Arabs might just have a shot at beating them.

So imagine being Israel, with a hostile force within your borders launching missiles at and knifing your civilians at every turn. There's also a horde of enemies just outside your borders, waiting for your allies to turn their back on you for defending yourself so they can finally achieve their goal of destroying you and retaking their holy city. What are you supposed to do in that situation?

Probably stop making more illegal settlements and stop cutting off water to Palestinian villages?

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DDirtyDastard
05/12/21 7:02:05 PM
#37:


Be on the side of peace and understanding.
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GeneralSecura92
05/12/21 7:02:32 PM
#38:


Kakapo posted...
Probably stop making more illegal settlements and stop cutting off water to Palestinian villages?
And you really think that Hamas would stop attacking Israel if Israel stopped doing that?
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harley2280
05/12/21 7:04:23 PM
#39:


It's really a case where the US should nope out. The colonists caused this issue, and it's their problem not ours.
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Kakapo
05/12/21 7:04:26 PM
#40:


GeneralSecura92 posted...
And you really think that Hamas would stop attacking Israel if Israel stopped doing that?

Considering Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat (of all people) were close to securing peace between the Israelis and Palestinians in the 90s, itd be a good fucking start.


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iPhone_7
05/12/21 7:06:45 PM
#41:


harley2280 posted...
It's really a case where the US should nope out. The colonists caused this issue, and it's their problem not ours.
The U.S. are colonizers themselves, no reason why theyd nope out

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CruelBuffalo
05/12/21 7:09:05 PM
#42:


Ignoring the question about Israels level of retaliation, what defense does Israel have for their continued settlement building further and further out. All that does is cause conflict. I really dont see how Thats defendable.
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harley2280
05/12/21 7:09:22 PM
#43:


iPhone_7 posted...
harley2280 posted...
It's really a case where the US should nope out. The colonists caused this issue, and it's their problem not ours.
The U.S. are colonizers themselves, no reason why theyd nope out

Not in this case. It's not our problem or responsibility, and has absolutely nothing to do with the US.
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CruelBuffalo
05/12/21 7:09:38 PM
#44:


iPhone_7 posted...

The U.S. are colonizers themselves, no reason why theyd nope out

Which countries were not formed from war or conquest. God herself did not ordain humanity from the start with boundaries so this colonizer insult just seems very lazy
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Jagr_68
05/12/21 7:11:39 PM
#45:


Nobody. Go about your life worrying about your shit or you'll just be stressing over all the mental gymnastics involved in breaking down a neverending thousand fucking year old conflict.

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legendary_zell
05/12/21 7:12:03 PM
#46:


GeneralSecura92 posted...
See, the thing is: all of this could be solved if the surrounding Arab countries would just say "y'know what Israel, we'll take all the Palestinians off your hands and you can have the land". That way, the Palestinians can live in peace with their Muslim brothers and Israel won't be bothered any more.

Except the Arabs don't give a fuck about the Palestinians. What this is all about is who controls Jerusalem. The Arabs don't want the Jews to have control over "their" holy city.

But since the Arabs can't beat Israel through military means, they're now trying to win in a war of public opinion. They try to paint Israel in a bad light so Israel's allies will abandon them, because if America stops supporting Israel, the Arabs might just have a shot at beating them. So they fund organisations like Hamas to keep launching attacks at Israel and use civilians and infrastructure as human shields so Israel will retaliate and look like the bad guys.

So imagine being Israel, with a hostile force within your borders launching missiles at and knifing your civilians at every turn. There's also a horde of enemies just outside your borders, waiting for your allies to turn their back on you for defending yourself so they can finally achieve their goal of destroying you and retaking their holy city. What are you supposed to do in that situation?

This is your attempt to paint Israel in a sympathetic light? Even in your attempt to show Israel as the only reasonable party, your solution is complete and total ethnic cleansing, making millions of people into refugees, and total colonization? Your compromise is for Palestine to be wiped off the map and for Israel to get the land, without the people....exactly what I said their goal was.

I couldn't caricature you as well as you're caricaturing yourself.


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TheMikh
05/12/21 7:13:24 PM
#47:


ConfessPlease posted...
I honestly don't know enough to know which side is the good side and I don't know the whole story and I feel like its too complex to know.

with respect to the general israeli-palestinian conflict, there is no good or bad "side", but yes, the whole story is indeed very complex

if you have 24 hours of listening time to spare, the martyrmade podcast offers pretty detailed, nuanced, and impartial historical background with respect to the situation

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jon1012
05/12/21 7:15:23 PM
#48:


Mezcla posted...
hey hey now

dont forget the Dutch. and French.

the Spanish anyone?

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UnfairRepresent
05/12/21 7:16:15 PM
#49:


legendary_zell posted...
This is your attempt to paint Israel in a sympathetic light? Even in your attempt to show Israel as the only reasonable party, your solution is complete and total ethnic cleansing, making millions of people into refugees, and total colonization? Your compromise is for Palestine to be wiped off the map and for Israel to get the land, without the people....exactly what I said their goal was.

I couldn't caricature you as well as you're caricaturing yourself.
pretty sure that guy was being facetious

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averagejoel
05/12/21 7:23:04 PM
#50:


TreyFlowers posted...
Literally this. Imagine if someone came in and said Washington DC is no longer American land, it's Saudi land for Saudi people.
that did happen

except it was a few hundred years ago, and it wasn't the Saudi people

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