Current Events > The idea that older games were fully completed games is fake

(+) Yeah! (+)

People today are complaining about getting full released game that are not fully completed and awaits dlcs and patches. They're saying these games should be all put in there and then released and devs should not be using dlcs to clean up uncompleted games.

The claim is that Snes and ps1 games are mostly completely games and newer games needs to go back to this way again. Lmao people got what they got and only knew what they knew from the games they played so back then so how would they know if the game out fully completed?

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first came the fake news, then came the fake ideas

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No, you really got the full game back then. You being a kid wouldnt know that.

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SauI_Goodman posted...

No, you really got the full game back then. You being a kid wouldnt know that.

Naw you didn't. You think SNES version of Final Fight wanted to give you the one player experience?

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Game devs are naturally lazier because they know they can fix issues later. Back then, you couldn't just patch things willy nilly, you needed more steps to release a new version disc/cartridge (like how games have v1 or v2) and really nail it on the first try. It's the same issue as early access; you have less pressure to make a complete product cause you can get your sales earlier and then be set and not worry about delivering the final product fully.

So regardless of if they're buggier or w/e, they were more complete because you have to get it right the first time.

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Master Kazuya posted...

Game devs are naturally lazier because they know they can fix issues later. Back then, you couldn't just patch things willy nilly, you needed more steps to release a new version disc/cartridge (like how games have v1 or v2) and really nail it on the first try. It's the same issue as early access; you have less pressure to make a complete product cause you can get your sales earlier and then be set and not worry about delivering the final product fully.

So regardless of if they're buggier or w/e, they were more complete because you have to get it right the first time.

It's a little bit of both. Lots of old games were datamined and they find tons of things taken out because deadlines were needed to be met.

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Veggeta X posted...

It's a little bit of both. Lots of old games were datamined and they find tons of things taken out because deadlines were needed to be met.

But deciding what to remove still has the pressure of releasing a final product in mind, still making them more complete. They need to choose what's okay shaving off while still delivering what they wanna deliver.

If I have 10 awesome level ideas but I only have time to develop 8 of them, I'm gonna pick the 8 most worth it to me. And that makes the game still feel complete thematically even if there was more content for them.

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It only comes off complete because you didn't know any better nor did you know there were gonna be add ons so what you got was what you got and so thought it were to be full.

With newer games, any add on content is means to complain about an unfinished game.

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Master Kazuya posted...

Game devs are naturally lazier because they know they can fix issues later.

I don't think lazy is the right adjective for it when games require more work and longer hours to produce than ever before.

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Master Kazuya posted...

But deciding what to remove still has the pressure of releasing a final product in mind, still making them more complete. They need to choose what's okay shaving off while still delivering what they wanna deliver.

If I have 10 awesome level ideas but I only have time to develop 8 of them, I'm gonna pick the 8 most worth it to me. And that makes the game still feel complete thematically even if there was more content for them.

Your example includes a foresight that isn't typical of why things got cut close to release time.

There's a good site for this, with examples of mostly completed levels being cut, because the business end projected significant losses from even minor delays. It's been linked on this board a few times, but I can't remember it for the life of me. Surely, one of you knows what I'm talking about? Something-archive, maybe?

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This is really bad troll bait

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And yet CE falls for it every time

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Lil_Bit83 posted...

This is really bad troll bait

I don't have an argument so I just call it trolling and go on my way feeling righteous

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True. Mega Mans 2 and 3 are some of my favorite games of all time, but they're clearly not "complete" by today's standards. And N64 games are loaded with scrapped content. Even Xenoblade from the Wii had an entire area cut from the game.

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Sonic and Knuckles was truly the beginning of the end for gaming.

Lock on technology my ass. It was just a level pack of stuff they cut from the first game!

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Guide posted...

Your example includes a foresight that isn't typical of why things got cut close to release time.

There's a good site for this, with examples of mostly completed levels being cut, because the business end projected significant losses from even minor delays. It's been linked on this board a few times, but I can't remember it for the life of me. Surely, one of you knows what I'm talking about? Something-archive, maybe?

The Cutting Room Floor?

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Antifar posted...

I don't think lazy is the right adjective for it when games require more work and longer hours to produce than ever before.

That doesn't at all imply non-laziness.

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Games were less buggy decades ago mostly because games themselves were far less complex in terms of code and middleware.

And the games that were complex often were glitchy as hell. Just look at morrowind.


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It's true some games were incomplete. You can tell by levels thinning out as the game advances or an extreme overuse of the same enemies. Hell, even a game like Super Mario 64 feels somewhat incomplete. (Admit it, they had bigger plans for the third floor than what we got.)

But these were because of deadlines or running out of money. They didn't sell you a 70% complete game, then charge you again for the remaining 30%. That's the difference. I'd rather have a 90% complete game and leave it at that than to be charged again for something I've already paid full price for.

FortuneCookie posted...

But these were because of deadlines

This is also why games get sold "incomplete" today.

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I completely agree with this topic.

Antifar posted...

I don't think lazy is the right adjective for it when games require more work and longer hours to produce than ever before.

Also this

Yall 100% right.

Bitching about cut content getting sold later as DLC or not happening at all has ALWAYS been a thing.

Gamers want games that are AAA, 80 hours of content (with no filler), they want to bug free, free DLC and be supported with updates for years, but also bitch if theres a day 1 patch AND only change things the gamers are bitching about on forums, it should have been bug free also so bug fix patches shouldnt even exist, be developed in a week, be on every system, developed without crunch, appeal to casuals and hardcore audiences alike but the hardcore people will have more say in the end (according to them), represent minorities only when gamers approve and its not pandering. And be $40 would be ideal.

Gamers are absolute morons.


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the first mortal kombat only had 8 characters and 2 game modes. how does that count as a complete game?
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FortuneCookie posted...

It's true some games were incomplete. You can tell by levels thinning out as the game advances or an extreme overuse of the same enemies. Hell, even a game like Super Mario 64 feels somewhat incomplete. (Admit it, they had bigger plans for the third floor than what we got.)

But these were because of deadlines or running out of money. They didn't sell you a 70% complete game, then charge you again for the remaining 30%. That's the difference. I'd rather have a 90% complete game and leave it at that than to be charged again for something I've already paid full price for.

And games today don't have deadlines? Lmao. I mean I'm not stopping anyone talking shit about incomplete games today. I just think it's completely false to claim older games were fully completed games in comparison when you actually look into it, they are also missing tons of content they initially wanted in the game.

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Veggeta X posted...

And games today don't have deadlines? Lmao. I mean I'm not stopping anyone talking shit about incomplete games today. I just think it's completely false to claim older games were fully completed games in comparison when you actually look into it, they are also missing tons of content they initially wanted in the game.

Better an incomplete game than a twice-paid-for game. If you order a meal, and it's slightly smaller than you expected, do you pay for additional side dishes? That's bad business for consumers. They'll cheat you because they know they can.

FortuneCookie posted...

Better an incomplete game than a twice-paid-for game. If you order a meal, and it's slightly smaller than you expected, do you pay for additional side dishes? That's bad business for consumers. They'll cheat you because they know they can.

If you order a steak at a restaurant and its increased in price

Do you think maybe its the Restaurant saying fuck these sheep theyll pay what we charge and well make a fortune off these fat fucks.

Maybe.

It could also be, every single aspect of cattle production increases with inflation, as does the rest of the world. And the restaurant cant sell the same price for a steak the cause theyre not buying it for the same price

Games are no different. Except they are. Because the price of a game hasnt really changed that much since I started playing Games 30 years ago

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That shut em up.

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original mario brothers was supposed to have co-op and yoshi but the tech was very limited at the time.
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It always bewilders me that somehow the gaming industry has tricked gamers into thinking that its okay for them to sell you an unfinished game. It boggles my mind that people defend it.

I can almost understand games with add ons (almost) but fighting games are totally fucked im just glad Marvel vs Capcom 2 came out when it did wed probly still be buying characters for that game. Itsa mess gamers let this happen. I took a break from gaming and missed the ps3/360 era shit went straight to hell since then.

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when it comes to anything creative, it's always unfinished until it's chosen to be sold

goes for games, paintings, drawings, movies, tv shows, writings, books, etc

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I've never heard anyone argue that older games were more complete ( what is considered complete is up to the developer anyway).

I've heard arguments that games had to be less buggy at launch since the ability to patch games didn't exist and that games already came with additional content that would be dlc today, which is true.

Remember when we have to download Starcraft patches and manually patch the game?
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Lack of updatability forced older games to be less ambitious. It sucks that we don't get the full experience off the bat, but what we get after everything the devs wanted to put in the game is usually very good

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Perfect Dark had cheese.
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Nasty_Nitro posted...

It always bewilders me that somehow the gaming industry has tricked gamers into thinking that its okay for them to sell you an unfinished game. It boggles my mind that people defend it.

I can almost understand games with add ons (almost) but fighting games are totally fucked im just glad Marvel vs Capcom 2 came out when it did wed probly still be buying characters for that game. Itsa mess gamers let this happen. I took a break from gaming and missed the ps3/360 era shit went straight to hell since then.

So are you gonna quit gaming then?

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Nasty_Nitro posted...

It always bewilders me that somehow the gaming industry has tricked gamers into thinking that its okay for them to sell you an unfinished game. It boggles my mind that people defend it.

I can almost understand games with add ons (almost) but fighting games are totally fucked im just glad Marvel vs Capcom 2 came out when it did wed probly still be buying characters for that game. Itsa mess gamers let this happen. I took a break from gaming and missed the ps3/360 era shit went straight to hell since then.

What truly boggles my mind is how gamers are absolutely spoiled by their hobby of choice and then have the audacity to bitch and whine on forums.

I guess that's what happens when you have a medium that skews young.

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SwayM posted...

If you order a steak at a restaurant and its increased in price

Do you think maybe its the Restaurant saying fuck these sheep theyll pay what we charge and well make a fortune off these fat fucks.

Maybe.

It could also be, every single aspect of cattle production increases with inflation, as does the rest of the world. And the restaurant cant sell the same price for a steak the cause theyre not buying it for the same price

Games are no different. Except they are. Because the price of a game hasnt really changed that much since I started playing Games 30 years ago

if someone said fuck mcdonalds, they make the burgers smaller and jack up the price.
do you think some fanboy is going to write up a 20000 word blog post defending mcdonalds, regurgitating "behind the scenes" mcpropaganda from people in the industry that have it in there interest to continue deceiving their gullible consumers.

game fanboys are unique and thanks to them the normal consumers also get fucked over. "hur DLC separate budget"

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SwayM posted...

What truly boggles my mind is how gamers are absolutely spoiled by their hobby of choice and then have the audacity to bitch and whine on forums.

I guess that's what happens when you have a medium that skews young.

Spoiled? No they changed the business model if anything the developers are spoiled they can release a broken game at full price and fix it later and theyll have goofs like you defending them.


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Veggeta X posted...

So are you gonna quit gaming then?

Nope but I used to pre pay and reserve games never doing that again. Buy a game at full price on release? never again


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Nasty_Nitro posted...

Spoiled? No they changed the business model if anything the developers are spoiled they can release a broken game at full price and fix it later and theyll have goofs like you defending them.

Better to be able to fix them later than not be able to.

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I don't think that's what they mean by "completed".

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We wasn't subjected to half complete games like we are today. Oh you want the full experience, well you gotta pay another $20+ on top of the $60 you already spent buying the game.

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Mr_Karate_II posted...

We wasn't subjected to half complete games like we are today. Oh you want the full experience, well you gotta pay another $20+ on top of the $60 you already spent buying the game.

Yes you were. You just didn't know about it

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