Current Events > Manga regularly outsells comics in the west. What would be needed to change that

(+) Yeah! (+)

Stories and characters that fucking END. People have long been tired of these same 80 year old characters.

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ChrisTaka posted...

I'd ask you to name a couple but then I bet you'd start naming really obscure ones lol

Fullmetal Alchemist. That's far from obscure.

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Big anime tiddies

Or uh manga tiddies

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Why would you want to change that?

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Manga: 8 -12 dollars, 100+ pages of content. Can be found at almost any bookstore.

Comics: 4-5 dollars, 20 pages of content. Can only be found by Nicholas Cage piecing together clues to discover the location of a comic book shop.

(Yes collected editions and TPBs exist. But why are you going to spend 20 -30 bucks on a Batman story when a manga will give you the same amount of story for a third of the price?)

And like others have said, Western comics are dominated by superheroes. Theres plenty of quality, diverse stories out there, but the marketing just isnt there I guess. >_>

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It's surprising how many people still think Western comics consist solely of Marvel and DC. There are tons of self contained comics with an actual ending published by several other publishers. Get your ass some Invincible if you want superhero stuff without all the corporate BS.

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

This sounds about right. With DC and Marvel too, everything is so corporate now, especially with the connected universe. Every storyline has to be approved on multiple levels, just to make sure you aren't doing anything too crazy that it ruins continuity.

Manga has no issue like that at all. Each writer/artist comes up with pretty much their own story from start to finish, doesn't have to worry about any oversight, no continuity between universes, no returning to the status quo, they have a story they want to make and when it is done, its done.

Also there is a big push to make women less sexy in comics for some reason, while One Piece, the best selling manga ever, is absolutely packed with women in bikinis with a size 0 waste and EE boobs. Sex sells

Mangaka not having to worry about oversight is just flat-out false. If they're being published in JUMP you be damn sure they have an editor up their ass 24/7. Most famous example is DBZ's Android arc, Androids 16, 17, 18 and Cell+his Semi-Perfect and Perfect forms exist solely due to an editor pestering Toriyama every step of the way.

For me, a big reason as to why I read Manga is anime lol. I watch a show and I really like it, and there's only so many episodes out or the next season hasn't or won't get adapted so I just pick up where I left off in the Manga. And for the most part, like others have mentioned, the source materials are cohesive.

There's no confusion as to where, when, or what I'm reading/starting. It's all pretty straightforward. Even a series like Jojos which has multiple time lines and versions of the same character is cohesive and has very straightforward reading order.

I guess it just boils down to most of the time there's only one author.

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A full scale revolution against weebs

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MabusIncarnate posted...

A full scale revolution against weebs

*unsheaths katana*
Go for it

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comics don't have an illegal amount of cute anime girls with big tiddies

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• Manga usually has one continuous writing staff/author with a story and world that changes over time.
• Western Comics has a rotating cast of authors with alot of stories resetting to status quo.

• Manga offers you more story & content for each $ you spend.
• Western Comics charges you more $ for less chapters / stories with more "Colored Pages".

But alot of people are perfectly fine with Black & White manga when you can get more story.

• Manga has stories that can appeal to all age ranges based on title & genre.
• Western Comics are generally more focused on the young kids audience and will cater to them more often than not. Some exceptions do apply, but it's rare and the minority of the content.

• Manga doesn't have nearly the volume of "Western Politics" inserted into the story.
• Western Comics has too much "Western Politics" inserted into the story as of late.

• Manga caters to the fan base that wants sexiness in their products.
• Western Comics generally doesn't focus on the "Sexiness" aspect.

• Manga has global reach and is trying to cater to as wide of an audience as possible with stories for those who want it, without censorship if possible.
• Western Comics is now narrowing their market to those who enjoy their "Politically Correct" Corporate sanctioned stories. Screw anybody else who doesn't want the PC agenda.

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I don't read that non-Naruto shit!

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TheSavageDragon posted...

It's surprising how many people still think Western comics consist solely of Marvel and DC. There are tons of self contained comics with an actual ending published by several other publishers. Get your ass some Invincible if you want superhero stuff without all the corporate BS.

Saga was pretty popular and had a huge reach and you just mentioned a comic with a pretty popular show on an unpopular platform (admittedly with a large market share). I don't think it's just a Marvel/DC issue. Cost and availability are a real problem even when starting point isn't.
I think the western comics that have an unexpected reach are also usually much more inventive. Saga, Invincible, Sandman, and The Boys are more visually interesting than, say, X-Men (and I like X-Men). And almost all of those are less fantastic than, say, My Hero Academia, which is the epitome of derivative. There's a reason the 100th Flash and Wonderwoman reboot had trouble pushing physical sales, despite being decent.

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Speaking of Naruto, his story has seen major progress throughout Naruto's life.

It covered his Childhood.
Tween Years.
Teen Years.
Eventually time skipping to FatherHood & marriage.
Now he has a two children and has become Hokage.

The story has moved on to focus on his son Boruto.

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I think it has less to do with political themes. Sometimes, manga just has a more attractive aesthetic.

Nobody wants to read a comic when there characters look like this:





Those are just unpleasant to look at.

western comics need to stop sucking

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Esrac posted...

Those are just unpleasant to look at.

You seriously picked some of the worst Western Comic art possible.

-_-

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Esrac posted...

I think it has less to do with political themes. Sometimes, manga just has a more attractive aesthetic.

Nobody wants to read a comic when there characters look like this:





Those are just unpleasant to look at.

Yes, anyone can nitpick a rare image and treat it like it's standard

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

You seriously picked some of the worst Western Comic art possible.

-_-

I know. Because its funnier to shit on the ugliest.

Esrac posted...

Because its funnier to shit on the ugliest.

thats not even the worst. i remember i stopped buying xmen comics when 1 issue has awesome art and the next one has barely colored in scribbles.

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MabusIncarnate posted...

Yes, anyone can nitpick a rare image and treat it like it's standard

Nice try, but that's an anime image. And everybody knows the anime isn't better than the manga

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ModLogic posted...

thats not even the worst. i remember i stopped buying xmen comics when 1 issue has awesome art and the next one has barely colored in scribbles.

How about this classic?

Esrac posted...

How about this classic?

Captain America isn't supposed to be Thicc-er than Big-E.

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Gurifisu posted...

Nice try, but that's an anime image. And everybody knows the anime isn't better than the manga

Literally no difference at all

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Esrac posted...

How about this classic?

Perfectly normal body type tbh


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MabusIncarnate posted...

Literally no difference at all

You picked a 90's Shoujo Anime from a ancient ass encode of the episode.

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MabusIncarnate posted...

Literally no difference at all

You tell that to One-Punch Man 2. I think the anime missed the memo

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

You picked a 90's Shoujo Anime from a ancient ass encode of the episode.

So old manga

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MabusIncarnate posted...

So old manga

I prefer the older stuff tbh. All the dudes were freakishly buff with fat ass eye brows.

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Manga regularly outsells comics in the west. What would be needed to change that

why does that need to change?

post #2 answered your question lol
you wanna keep bringing back consumers you gotta keep your product palatable to THEM, not the producers
you can't dictate what western consumers are supposed to like, buy and advocate for

THEY dictate what they want and pay for


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NonDairyMiltank posted...

post #2 answered your question lol
you wanna keep bringing back consumers you gotta keep your product palatable to THEM, not the producers
you can't dictate what western consumers are supposed to like, buy and advocate for

THEY dictate what they want and pay for

Bingo! You hit the nail straight on the head.

Serve your audience properly, give them choice and eventually they'll find something they like.

Do not assume you know what they want and can dictate to them.

That's not how Entertainment works.

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I think comics are more niche and skew to an older generation while Manga is probably something more people have grown up with now.

Personally growing up a lot of animes were popular in my friend groups. So it makes sense that's more popular now

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Go back to what comics were like in the 60's-90's.

Squall28 posted...

It feels like comic book stories have gone on for too long, and it's become overly complex with multiverses and huge storylines. You don't even know where to start with it

This 100%.

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1. Manga are cheaper. $7 for the equivalwnt of like 10 comics while comics cost $4

2. Manga don't put ads on every other page

3. Manga are a continuation of an overarching story that is better than any comic story almost always

They need to stop rebooting ancient ass properties for a while.

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TC, where did you get this sales information? And can you provide a link to it? I don't believe your claim honestly. Manga collectively outselling comics and graphic novels in the west... I just don't see it, but if that data says it's true then okay.

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nothanks1 posted...

Mangas are just superior nippon steel

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Marvel and DC would probably need to go away to allow for a market with more varied ideas, or at least a market in which the already existing varied ideas get a bigger chunk of the pie. It feels like everything sort of gravitates around the two of them, so they sort of control how people view comics and the larger market for comics. It's not like there aren't plenty of others that sell well enough, but it feels like they're holding everything back.

CartmanMustDie posted...

First google results
https://comicbook.com/anime/news/my-hero-academia-dominated-graphic-novel-sales-2020/
https://www.reddit.com/r/graphicnovels/comments/kmm29k/manga_vs_comics_sales/
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-manga-taking-over-US-comic-sales

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-manga-outsell-comics-Marvel-and-DC-when-comics- have-literally-have-entire-cinematic-universes-with-movies-that-are-box-office- smashes-anime-is-nothing-compared-to-the-cinematic-universes-of-Marvel-and-DC

Reddit and quora posts are not really what I'd consider strong sources but I'll check out the other link.

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Comicbooks were to slow in adapting to the changing times and becoming more accessible to general audiances.

Youtube channels like Comicstorian, and ComicsExplained are a example of where DC/Marvel should have gone. Along with a dedicated and well advertised app service.

One major advantage of comicbooks though are its versatility and mainstream appeal in all forms of media. From animation, tv, live action, and video games. So to say comics are failing based solely on the comicbook aspect is looking at only a small piece of the pie.

Snip-N-Snails posted...

I think honestly, these days western comics just aren't as visually appealing as manga, especially with younger audiences, which let's be honest, has always made up the bulk of sales for every entertainment industry. There's also the accessibility factor of course which I remember even when I was a kid and manga was nowhere near as big as it is now, it was still much easier to grab a small paperback manga from the library for a quick read than a magazine sized comic book.

Their equal even in the visual department, where comics generally fall behind is in action. Where it's generally a afterthought and comes 2nd fiddle to the story or characters and very rarely focused on or made a priority. Especially for its bigger events final battles that usually end anti climatically.

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Comic books are kind of intimidating because there are so many different storylines by different creators. Mangas are usually just one long story that keeps on continuing.

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nemu posted...

Marvel and DC would probably need to go away to allow for a market with more varied ideas, or at least a market in which the already existing varied ideas get a bigger chunk of the pie. It feels like everything sort of gravitates around the two of them, so they sort of control how people view comics and the larger market for comics. It's not like there aren't plenty of others that sell well enough, but it feels like they're holding everything back.

This. There are some other ones like darkhorse and such but the big fish gets the biggest meal.

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Self-inflicted wounds of woke culture. Reading a modern Marvel comic is like reading lazy propaganda.

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discodancer77 posted...

IMO mainstream superhero comics will tell stories, but always loop back to a certain status quo, because these characters/worlds are meant to be timeless and provide a setting for new stories for many many years, decades, even.

Stories in Manga are usually made to tell a story thats been generally thought up in advance, and theres a much greater sense of forward momentum and character development over time because the story just moves forward until it ends, without having to eventually revert everything to the status quo again.

This is the main thing to me in regards to Marvel/DC. I enjoy watching characters progress physically/emotionally/ability-wise/etc which seems to be something that happens maybe once a decade for Superhero comics.

Outside of Marvel/DC, its about variety. I find that most western books that arent from either of the above companies tend to still follow superheroes and those that dont are still largely action series. Also its an absolute grab-bag on quality. On the other side, right now, just out of the Jump series Im following, theres 2 wildly different battle series, one crafting adventure, one gag manga about an ex-assassin, a sports series and a historical series. Previously I read a cooking manga there too. Thats just out of one magazine and its a magazine that guarantees at least some quality due to the fact that series regularly get cancelled under 20 chapters if theyre underperforming.

Simple. Western comics didn't gatekeep. Now feminists run the show. Quality drops.

Lot of people talking about feminism, woke, etc. Ignoring that manga outsold comics well before any of that that happened, and their sales in the US peaked long ago. Comics were always niche and really weren't competing in the same space manga does. Manga is competing with graphic novels for the most part.

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Would it even be possible to make manga in the US the same way they make it in Japan? Labor laws might make mangaka work schedule illegal in most western countries. We couldn't do 20 pages a week.