Current Events > Why do people hate the European Super League so much?

(+) Yeah! (+)

It is basically creating a league similar to American pro sports leagues right?

What exactly is wrong with that?

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No, inform yourself and then ask again.

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ALIEN_WORK2HOP posted...

No, inform yourself and then ask again.

I'm sorry, I forgot I was on a FAQs site

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ALIEN_WORK2HOP posted...

No, inform yourself and then ask again.

So I'm sorry that your wonderful post didn't help more, but from what I can find it is basically like an American pro sports league with the main difference is that there will still be some relegation.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

So I'm sorry that your wonderful post didn't help more, but from what I can find it is basically like an American pro sports league with the main difference is that there will still be some relegation.

Try harder. Seriously go listen to any number of rants about it.

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So no one actually has an answer. That's cool.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

So no one actually has an answer. That's cool.

Did you try to find the info?

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hitokoriX posted...

Did you try to find the info?

I read about the competition format on wikipedia. Why are you (and the other guy) being so secretive lmao?

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Damn_Underscore posted...

It is basically creating a league similar to American pro sports leagues right?

Those leagues are hugely exclusionary when compared to the pyramids of European soccer that allow for clubs to rise to the top level based on talent, not market size.

There are issues with the European leagues as presently constructed, to be sure. But if you're a fan those issues are largely preferable to the American leagues where owners are under no obligation to field a competitive team and many aren't really trying.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

It doesn't reflect the way the game is supposed to be played. Americans and team owners of other nationalities not understanding what the fans want.

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I am American, but I am also a fan of one of the clubs involved. As an American, I really couldn't care less, but I also recognize that this is because American sports (including soccer) have no promotion/relegation system. European fans are outraged because they feel that it disrupts the integrity of the sport due to its exclusionary nature. In a way, I can understand this because you'd never even have the possibility of something crazy like Leicester City winning the Premiere League in this format.

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meralonne posted...

I am American, but I am also a fan of one of the clubs involved. As an American, I really couldn't care less, but I also recognize that this is because American sports (including soccer) have no promotion/relegation system. European fans are outraged because they feel that it disrupts the integrity of the sport due to its exclusionary nature. In a way, I can understand this because you'd never even have the possibility of something crazy like Leicester City winning the Premiere League in this format.

Italian league soccer is also exclusionary but it's still based on talent and not popularity.

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Antifar posted...

Those leagues are hugely exclusionary when compared to the pyramids of European soccer that allow for clubs to rise to the top level based on talent, not market size.

There are issues with the European leagues as presently constructed, to be sure. But if you're a fan those issues are largely preferable to the American leagues where owners are under no obligation to field a competitive team and many aren't really trying.

Thank you for this actual answer (and to SpaceBear).

I disagree with you that American sports owners are under no pressure to compete. Look at the attendance in Florida Marlins games for literally their entire existence besides the two years they were actually competitive and I guess their inaugural season.

If you think that European leagues are better than American sports leagues (structurally), that's fine but a lot of people are going to disagree with you. Very few people in America want relegation and there are arguments against it. I understand that sports culture in Europe and America are different but this league wasn't even able to begin before the backlash (nearly?) shut it down.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

I disagree with you that American sports owners are under no pressure to compete. Look at the attendance in Florida Marlins games for literally their entire existence besides the two years they were actually competitive and I guess their inaugural season.

And they're still free to coast on TV revenue generated by the teams people want to see. Same for the Pirates. In Europe, the expectation is that a place at the top tier has to be earned on the field.


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Damn_Underscore posted...

If you think that European leagues are better than American sports leagues (structurally), that's fine but a lot of people are going to disagree with you. Very few people in America want relegation and there are arguments against it. I understand that sports culture in Europe and America are different but this league wasn't even able to begin before the backlash (nearly?) shut it down.

Clearly most agree it's a bad idea given the outrage, backpaddling and resigning that has happened.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

Antifar posted...

Those leagues are hugely exclusionary when compared to the pyramids of European soccer that allow for clubs to rise to the top level based on talent, not market size.

There are issues with the European leagues as presently constructed, to be sure. But if you're a fan those issues are largely preferable to the American leagues where owners are under no obligation to field a competitive team and many aren't really trying.

Thank you for this actual answer (and to SpaceBear).

I disagree with you that American sports owners are under no pressure to compete. Look at the attendance in Florida Marlins games for literally their entire existence besides the two years they were actually competitive and I guess their inaugural season.

If you think that European leagues are better than American sports leagues (structurally), that's fine but a lot of people are going to disagree with you. Very few people in America want relegation and there are arguments against it. I understand that sports culture in Europe and America are different but this league wasn't even able to begin before the backlash (nearly?) shut it down.

Are the Marlins losing money?
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Because FIFA corruption is more powerful. Gotta have that World Cup in Qatar built by slaves and fake promises.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

If you think that European leagues are better than American sports leagues (structurally), that's fine but a lot of people are going to disagree with you. Very few people in America want relegation and there are arguments against it.

It's hard to compare, really. Take English soccer, for example. There are dozens of clubs in the city of London alone. Most North American pro sports don't have enough teams to make promotion/relegation feasible. Baseball, maybe, if the minors weren't affiliates of major league teams.

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A league without relegation is better for the players. One of the reasons relegation will never happen in America is that it results in an unknown for the players, who are trying to market themselves and make the most money they can make.

And the fact that the Florida Marlins exist doesn't hurt anyone or hurt MLB as a whole.

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Regulation doesn't allow for entertaining staples to stick around like the Detroit Lions and Cleveland Browns.

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YellowSUV posted...

Because FIFA corruption is more powerful. Gotta have that World Cup in Qatar built by slaves and fake promises.

The UEFA president slamming this move as "disgraceful and self-serving" was peak irony.

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Because no team should be guaranteed a spot in the top league just because of how much money they have. Based on current rules if ur a shitty team that rises tothe top, u have a shot at the champions league. For example Leicester city got their shot and got to the quarter finals in the champions league. And teams like Tottenham or arsenal who get hyped up but don't honestly deserve those chances would otherwise be in it every time

It eliminates competition which is at the very core of what sports is all about.

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meralonne posted...

Most North American pro sports don't have enough teams to make promotion/relegation feasible. Baseball, maybe, if the minors weren't affiliates of major league teams.

Well, an argument could be made that things would look very different if baseball had structured itself the way European soccer did in the last 1800s

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Antifar posted...

Well, an argument could be made that things would look very different if baseball had structured itself the way European soccer did in the last 1800s

Imagine baseball but ever year the bottom 4 teams from the major league have to play in the minor leagues instead and the top four minor league teams get promoted to major league.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

A league without relegation is better for the players. One of the reasons relegation will never happen in America is that it results in an unknown for the players, who are trying to market themselves and make the most money they can make

Is a league where teams can keep their place without paying for talent really better for players? Also, the ESL was looking to implement a salary cap that would see a smaller share of revenue going to players.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

Imagine baseball but ever year the bottom 4 teams from the major league have to play in the minor leagues instead and the top four minor league teams get promoted to major league.

Yes, I know how pro/rel works

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UEFAs plans to revamp the Champions League isn't much better. They are going to implement qualification for "elite" teams regardless of how well they did in their domestic leagues.


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Basically it didn't funnel all the money to the "right", FIFA approved billionaires. That's really important in the Western world, it's all gotta go to the right old white people. No that doesn't mean that the "wrong" old white people billionaires getting more money is a good answer.

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Gakk86 posted...

Basically it didn't funnel all the money to the "right", FIFA approved billionaires.

I really don't understand the impulse to make this about FIFA when the fans of the teams have been the most pissed off by it.

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SpaceBear_ posted...

UEFAs plans to revamp the Champions League isn't much better. They are going to implement qualification for "elite" teams regardless of how well they did in their domestic leagues.

Hopefully that gets turned down too.

Antifar posted...

Gakk86 posted...

Basically it didn't funnel all the money to the "right", FIFA approved billionaires.

I really don't understand the impulse to make this about FIFA when the fans of the teams have been the most pissed off by it.

Not the mention how the glaring omissions in the super league were the German teams ie those owned by the fans
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teep_ posted...

Not the mention how the glaring omissions in the super league were the German teams ie those owned by the fans

I think PSG was the more interesting omission. You could expect fan-owned teams to react in this manner, but PSG is owned by a billionaire who immediately stated that his team would not participate.

Of course, it was really funny how quickly the English teams nope'd out of this the second fans started burning jerseys in front of their stadiums.

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meralonne posted...

I think PSG was the more interesting omission. You could expect fan-owned teams to react in this manner, but PSG is owned by a billionaire who immediately stated that his team would not participate.

PSG is owned by a Qatari billionaire who also owns a network that has TV rights to the UCL, so it's pretty clear the logic at play there.

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Antifar posted...

PSG is owned by a Qatari billionaire who also owns a network that has TV rights to the UCL, so it's pretty clear the logic at play there.

That makes sense. I knew about the first piece, but not the piece about the TV rights.

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I can speak for myself, since bigger isn't always better. This is especially true for football where most traditional national leagues have a special meaning for the teams. It also makes sense having regional leagues and one continental cup. Also, the founding teams permanent inclusion is simply ridiculous. It's a bad ideia anywhere you look at it.

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MaddenDude-- posted...

Because no team should be guaranteed a spot in the top league just because of how much money they have. Based on current rules if ur a shitty team that rises tothe top, u have a shot at the champions league. For example Leicester city got their shot and got to the quarter finals in the champions league. And teams like Tottenham or arsenal who get hyped up but don't honestly deserve those chances would otherwise be in it every time

It eliminates competition which is at the very core of what sports is all about.

red bull literally took a 5th division german team and transformed it to rb leipzeg.
they're now 2nd place in the bundesliga (top flight)
they did that in 10... years
and it won't be long until they ultimately dethrone bayern munich as the dominant power of german football

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promotion/relegation will never work in north american sports mainly due to north american sports having a draft system in place. european leagues have academies where they find and develop young talent and graduate them to their clubs or they buy them from smaller clubs.
borussia dortmund for one has been known for years for buying talent cheap and develop them and sell these players high on their transfer fees. prolly the greatest developmental club in europe.

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Regulation is ingrained in European soccer. Its just the way of life there. It allows for teams to rise and makes great stories, like LC. Champions League is also something to play for and it basically destroys that, as the major teams wouldnt care since theyre already in the best league.

It was a clear cash grab that literally no one but the owners wanted. Fans didnt want it. Players didnt want it. Coaches didnt want it. German teams told it to pound sand.

The American owners are hated by the soccer fans for reasons like this. They clearly only care about making money and none of the tradition.
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The American owners have made it clear on multiple occasions that they don't understand the traditions of football (and in some cases, they're unsure of the rules of the game.)

And the Spanish owners that were involved in the ESL have made it very clear that they only care about money.

Once spent a small fortune to get a ticket for the El Classic, Barcelona vs Real Madrid and it didn't feel like a football match at all. It was like visiting a tourist attraction.

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SpaceBear_ posted...

Once spent a small fortune to get a ticket for the El Classic, Barcelona vs Real Madrid and it didn't feel like a football match at all. It was like visiting a tourist attraction.

should have went to signal iduna park
hands down the best football experience in europe

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Let's not put it all on Americans, there were Middle Eastern and Russian owners involved as well. And don't forget that this was spearheaded by Real Madrid, which is run by Spaniards.

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If anything, North American leagues need to look into relegation.

Questionmarktarius posted...

If anything, North American leagues need to look into relegation.

As I mentioned before, most NA leagues don't have enough professional teams to make promotion/relegation feasible. Minor league baseball is more akin to academies that feed talent to major league teams than standalone professional squads, for example. And other American sports, including soccer, rely more on recruiting from collegiate sports rather than having an academy system or poaching from poorer professional clubs.

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Relegation is stupid

Whoever isn't doing that I will take the side of

meralonne posted...

Let's not put it all on Americans, there were Middle Eastern and Russian owners involved as well. And don't forget that this was spearheaded by Real Madrid, which is run by Spaniards.

European soccer fans hate the American owners. For good reason too. They dont immerse themselves with the team or traditions and view the teams as just ways to pad their billions. Plus, the billionaires who own those teams own teams in the US and surprise surprise, theyre shitty owners here too.
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ShineboxPhil posted...

promotion/relegation will never work in north american sports mainly due to north american sports having a draft system in place. european leagues have academies where they find and develop young talent and graduate them to their clubs or they buy them from smaller clubs.
borussia dortmund for one has been known for years for buying talent cheap and develop them and sell these players high on their transfer fees. prolly the greatest developmental club in europe.

I don't understand the argument...The g league had to change it's rules because players were going to Australia and Europe for the money instead of staying here.

The basketball league exists, but you only make $3,000 a year minium. So it's more profitable to work at McDonald's.

It just seems entirely about being a money thing.

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Also, the draft incentivizes being bad so you can get good picks. If you get bounced from the league entirely, that's a different calculation

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

European soccer fans hate the American owners. For good reason too. They dont immerse themselves with the team or traditions and view the teams as just ways to pad their billions. Plus, the billionaires who own those teams own teams in the US and surprise surprise, theyre shitty owners here too.

I don't disagree with the notion that American owners treat their teams as business assets. The asshat that owns Arsenal also owns the Rams, the Nuggets, the Avalanche and the Rapids, for example.

However, the only reason Russian and Middle Eastern owners don't get the same level of vitriol is that they treat the teams like playthings to throw money at. They don't give a fuck about traditions, either, but fans don't bitch when their Russian overlord is buying them the next new star Every. Single. Year.

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