Poll of the Day > One of my former close friends got sucked into an anti-vaxx Nazi rabbit hole...

(+) Yeah! (+)

She was sharing fascist propaganda from Nazis, including anti-vaccination misinformation. It's really weird to see because she used to be one of the kindest and most compassionate people I knew. Sad to see that happen to someone, especially when they're resistant to listening to you.

Anyone else lose loved ones to insane ideologies?

JigsawTDC posted...

Anyone else lose loved ones to insane ideologies?

No, I do a pretty good job of calling dumbs dumb; Always cracking down when someone posts anti-vax stuff on Facebook

---

Most of my family members are either Fox News daily viewers or they dont really follow politics or the news, claim to be centrist and independent, and have just abysmally stupid or batshit crazy views on most issues.

---

My childhood best friend is basically a white supremacist in-denial but in hindsight it's not really surprising. He was the kind of kid that was in love with cops when he was like 12 but not in the way a typical naive kid might like "yay go fight the bad guys!" Actually most of the stuff was concerning to me even as a kid, but I guess I didn't care enough due to a combination of wanting validation/friends and just not even thinking at all about what that would look like in adulthood. Plus while I'd always say I was pretty liberal/left-leaning, I definitely had some blinders as a kid. I was the type of kid who said stuff was "gay" all the time for example.

antivax, or anti brand new and untested vaccines?
---

Krazy_Kirby posted...

or anti brand new and untested vaccines?

That's not really a position that has any practical impact, given that no untested vaccines are allowed to enter the market. If people don't even have the option to take untested vaccines, refusing them is a pretty hollow gesture.

---

CoorsLight posted...

I was the type of kid who said stuff was "gay" all the time for example.

That's pretty much all 80's and 90's kids to be fair.

---

It's mostly people's moms and dads I know that have fallen into gazing at their phone all day and sharing complete pap.

I still do see a decent amount of people I went to highschool with becoming conspiracy theorists. Most of them are guys that went off to work in oil & gas and girls who got pregnant early. There's one girl that I used to work with - she's anti-vax now. She's a vain weirdo who posts her ass online most of all (I take no issue with this on its own accord, but...), her 2nd kid a lot, and her 1st kid who has some congenital defects barely at all. It's quite sad and appalling.

---

adjl posted...

That's not really a position that has any practical impact, given that no untested vaccines are allowed to enter the market. If people don't even have the option to take untested vaccines, refusing them is a pretty hollow gesture.

You say that... but we have pandemrix as a glaring example that a vaccine produced in a small time frame is not always as safe as our big pharma overlords assure us it is

Zareth posted...

That's pretty much all 80's and 90's kids to be fair.

Yeah I know, I don't think much of it for what it meant about my own views, but I'm just saying it's an example of the kind of thing that shows why I didn't push back more on problematic stuff. Though I'm pretty passive in general too and I'm not sure if trying to nip it in the bud would've made much difference today.

My dad is a cop and he believes all the pro-Trump conspiracies.

My coworker believes in pizzagate and thinks Tom Hanks, Hilary Clinton etc. Are all involved

havent called him out on it

---

OhhhJa posted...

You say that... but we have pandemrix as a glaring example that a vaccine produced in a small time frame is not always as safe as our big pharma overlords assure us it is

Care to elaborate on how you think this little bit of word salad does anything to refute what I said?

---

JigsawTDC posted...

including anti-vaccination misinformation.

Details? As the idea kinda surprises me.

---

JigsawTDC posted...

Anyone else lose loved ones to insane ideologies?

Half of my family are big time into MAGA/Q shit and want nothing to do with the rest of us.

---

Nichtcrawler X posted...

Details? As the idea kinda surprises me.

The idea of anti-vaxx ideologies? A lot of them are based around a study from ~1998 that suggested a link between the MMR vaccine and autism. Said study was almost immediately debunked as being poor science (n=12, plenty of evidence of conflicts of interest, conclusions that were based on nothing more than correlations...), every effort since 1998 to replicate the results has failed, and the study was formally retracted and the doctor's license revoked after he admitted to fabricating the whole thing to help out the legal cases of a couple patients who were attempting to sue pharmaceutical companies because their kids were autistic, but a growing number of people have been treating it as gospel ever since.

---

adjl posted...

The idea of anti-vaxx ideologies?

The idea of "Nazis" proclaiming anti-vax ideologies.

---

adjl posted...

Care to elaborate on how you think this little bit of word salad does anything to refute what I said?

No need to be a douchebag. Pandemrix is a vaccine that was pushed out really quickly similar to the covid vaccines. Difference is that it wasn't a completely new type of vaccine like the mRNA ones. Still there were lots of adverse effects

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemrix#:~:text=Pandemrix%20is%20an%20influenza%20vaccine,and%20patented%20in%20September%202006.

JigsawTDC posted...

she used to be one of the kindest and most compassionate people I knew

She's concerned something is dangerous and wants to warn those she cares about. How selfish?

---

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

She's concerned something is dangerous and wants to warn those she cares about. How selfish?

You missed the part about Nazi

---

JigsawTDC posted...

She was sharing fascist propaganda from Nazis, including anti-vaccination misinformation. It's really weird to see because she used to be one of the kindest and most compassionate people I knew. Sad to see that happen to someone, especially when they're resistant to listening to you.

Anyone else lose loved ones to insane ideologies?

Was she sharing news about vaccine passports from other countries?

Out of curiosity, did you allow yourself to listen to her?

Depends on how much leftist garbage they spew. But usually not. At least, not from my end.

---

I personally see parralels in anti Vax ideology and Nazi ideology. Disinformation regarding vaccines allows more poor, disadvantaged and disabled people to die.

---

OhhhJa posted...

No need to be a douchebag. Pandemrix is a vaccine that was pushed out really quickly similar to the covid vaccines. Difference is that it wasn't a completely new type of vaccine like the mRNA ones. Still there were lots of adverse effects

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemrix#:~:text=Pandemrix%20is%20an%20influenza%20vaccine,and%20patented%20in%20September%202006.

So... it still wasn't "untested," which is the central point of what I said.

Moreover, it's a given that trials of 30-40,000 participants aren't going to catch one-in-a-million side effects. That's going to be true no matter how "rushed" a product is. The standards set by the FDA and other regulatory agencies (which, I must again point out, all Covid vaccines are meeting before being approved, despite the accelerated timeline) do not and cannot rule out extremely rare side effects. They can only catch the ones that are common enough to render the treatment more dangerous than the disease, and in an emergency situation like this, it's perfectly reasonable to push ahead with the best available option instead of waiting for something perfect.

---

CoorsLight posted...

Yeah I know, I don't think much of it for what it meant about my own views, but I'm just saying it's an example of the kind of thing that shows why I didn't push back more on problematic stuff. Though I'm pretty passive in general too and I'm not sure if trying to nip it in the bud would've made much difference today.

Honestly I still say it as an adult infront of friends, but I'm bi and I say it a bit affectionately.

I haven't lost anyone but I have a neighbor who is tempted to believe some of the crazier stuff, i.e. China created the virus and released it intentionally on their own population to attack the US...somehow. I can still talk to him rationally, though.

Really, there are a lot of things coming together now:
1) Nobody remembers WWII anymore, which taught multiple generations of people why we need to get along and be a part of something bigger than ourselves. Few of those people are alive or in leadership positions anymore, though.
2) The internet allows people to believe whatever they want and be affirmed by other like-minded people.
3) All local community-building institutions are declining. Say what you will about religion and it's abuses - I won't disagree - but there are (were?) good things about having common community moral oversight (in the instances where it wasn't being abused).

Can we get out of this loop without another WWII-level catastrophe? I'm not terribly hopeful.

---

Boomers went to school to get clubbed upside the head for looking at the teacher wrong.

---

JOExHIGASHI posted...

You missed the part about Nazi

That might affect who she cares about, not her ability to care.

---

Nichtcrawler X posted...

That might affect who she cares about, not her ability to care.

Still a huge difference from "kindest and most compassionate"

---

Nichtcrawler X posted...

The idea of "Nazis" proclaiming anti-vax ideologies.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/06/the-anti-vax-movements-radical-shift-from-crunchy-granola-purists-to-far-right-crusaders/

I just meant eugenics were part of the Nazi-ideology. I feel like medical advancements (like vaccines), even if they have a negative effect on a small part of the population, would fit right in with that idea.

---

Nichtcrawler X posted...

I just meant eugenics were part of the Nazi-ideology. I feel like medical advancements (like vaccines), even if they have a negative effect on a small part of the population, would fit right in with that idea.

I take it you haven't seen people argue against vaccines (and medicine in general, really) because they keep the weak from dying out. It's far, far too common for people to say that vaccines are bad because they weaken the immune system (which is the exact opposite of how they work, but nobody expects these people to be intelligent).

---

adjl posted...

I take it you haven't seen people argue against vaccines (and medicine in general, really) because they keep the weak from dying out. It's far, far too common for people to say that vaccines are bad because they weaken the immune system (which is the exact opposite of how they work, but nobody expects these people to be intelligent).

Either they are not as common here or not as vocal as in the US.

---

JOExHIGASHI posted...

You missed the part about Nazi

I intentionally ignored the part about Nazi because I seriously doubt the person in question wants to ethnically cleanse Europe.

---

If sharing stuff from The Daily Stormer isn't Nazi enough for you, idk what to tell you.

None of my close friends, but some of my favourite ironic-nazi influencers turned into nazi influencers. Really disappointing.

---

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

I intentionally ignored the part about Nazi because I seriously doubt the person in question wants to ethnically cleanse Europe.

What, not content to let Zeus have all the fun pedentically demanding that people append "neo-" every time they speak about any group following the Nazi ideology that isn't Germany's ruling power in the 30's?

---

I have extended family members who are anti-vaxxers and election truthers, it's sad.

---

i don't have facebook and live across the country, so i have almost no idea what any of my old friends are up to besides the ~10 people i stay in touch with

---

adjl posted...

pedentically demanding that people append "neo-" every time they speak about any group following the Nazi ideology

So far all I know about the person is they question the safety of a specific vaccine. I don't think this is indicative of Nazi ideology, "neo-" or otherwise. I don't think the propaganda is from actual Nazis. I think describing people as such is hyperbolic and quite overused.

---

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

So far all I know about the person is they question the safety of a specific vaccine. I don't think this is indicative of Nazi ideology, "neo-" or otherwise. I don't think the propaganda is from actual Nazis. I think describing people as such is hyperbolic and quite overused.

I mean I guess you can ignore the post where I mention them sharing Daily Stormer articles if you want to fluff up your point. Doesn't change the facts.

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

So far all I know about the person is they question the safety of a specific vaccine. I don't think this is indicative of Nazi ideology, "neo-" or otherwise.

It's not, but...
JigsawTDC posted...

She was sharing fascist propaganda from Nazis

That is. TDC is also generally a rational enough person that I would not interpret "anti-vaccine misinformation" as "question[ing] the safety of a specific vaccine." I would interpret that as disseminating misinformation about the safety of multiple different vaccines. I'm sure, if you asked for examples instead of immediately jumping to the conclusion that this assessment was exaggerated, he'd be happy to provide them.

---

JigsawTDC posted...

I mean I guess you can ignore the post where I mention them sharing Daily Stormer articles

I'm not familiar with what this is.

---

adjl posted...

I'm sure, if you asked for examples instead of immediately jumping to the conclusion that this assessment was exaggerated

Looking back at my posts, the conclusion I jumped to was that this person was still kind and compassionate. Even if you don't think their cause for concern is warranted. To which JOExHIGASHI replied and focused on describing the person as a Nazi. To which I don't care for the reasons already given. I think the eronous assumption here is that I must care whether someone is a Nazi.

---

Apparently a dude at the dog park today was a qanon believer.

---

Zareth posted...

Apparently a dude at the dog park today was a qanon believer.

I guess you could say he was barking mad ohohoho

He also likely contributes to the systemic problems in America that will persist for decades and ruin the lives of millions of people

---

Motherfucker was like 90% legs and 10% upper body. And he was only like 5'6 at best. Looked to be about double digit IQ too.

---

That's why you only fall into vtuber rabbit holes.



---

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

I'm not familiar with what this is.

That indicates you don't know a whole lot about Nazi activity in the USA today. Check out info on it. Edited by Andrew Anglin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Stormer

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Daily_Stormer

---

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

Looking back at my posts, the conclusion I jumped to was that this person was still kind and compassionate. Even if you don't think their cause for concern is warranted. To which JOExHIGASHI replied and focused on describing the person as a Nazi. To which I don't care for the reasons already given. I think the eronous assumption here is that I must care whether someone is a Nazi.

A normal person would be appalled to know there are still Nazi. And would require some mental gymnastics to say a Nazi is kind and compassionate.

---

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

Looking back at my posts, the conclusion I jumped to was that this person was still kind and compassionate.

Which most people would consider to be mutually exclusive of subscribing to Nazi ideology.

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

I think the eronous assumption here is that I must care whether someone is a Nazi.

That's not so much an assumption as it is a criterion for being a decent person. Nazis aren't decent people. Not by any metric that's acceptable in civilized society. Not caring about whether or not someone is a Nazi means you're giving them a free pass for that, which is itself not being a decent person.

You don't have to care about whether or not somebody is a Nazi, but you should be aware that handwaving Nazism is going to have some pretty significant consequences for how people view you, and not unreasonably so.

---