Current Events > *gets paid six figures; takes 3 paid months off; quits b/c of no promotion*

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IdiotMachine
04/09/21 9:21:07 AM
#1:


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/07/opinion/google-job-harassment.html

TL;DR:
  • Female Google engineer that loves her jobs
  • Lead engineer is sexist
  • Holds tongue for a year or so
  • Finally complains to HR
  • HR investigates and holds lead engineer accountable
  • Business back to usual (she gets high performance rating)
  • Takes three months paid time off
  • Returns and gets normal performance rating
  • Complains to manager about no promotion while also looking for jobs elsewhere
  • Gets higher pay offers from elsewhere
  • Google doesnt match, so she quits
  • Tells people to never love a job
wat

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Kaldrenthebold
04/09/21 9:21:44 AM
#2:


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The Trent
04/09/21 9:21:56 AM
#3:


reminds me vaguely of something that happened last year at my company!
people are bonkers

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NinjaWarrior455
04/09/21 9:22:12 AM
#4:


Were you dropped on your head?

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gunplagirl
04/09/21 9:22:41 AM
#5:


Kaldrenthebold posted...
She's right
Yeah, I don't see how anyone can think otherwise

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FortuneCookie
04/09/21 9:24:56 AM
#6:


If she's denied a promotion because of her sex, that's discrimination no matter how much she's making.
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IdiotMachine
04/09/21 9:25:11 AM
#7:


Kaldrenthebold posted...
She's right

gunplagirl posted...
Yeah, I don't see how anyone can think otherwise
How could you expect high performance rating and a promotion after taking three months off? Thats ridiculous.

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Kakapo
04/09/21 9:25:55 AM
#8:


Unless it's a job that you find personally fulfilling, pays well and has an excellent workplace culture, don't love a job.

Love a paycheck.

Be a mercenary shit, god knows everyone else is.

That said, I love my job.

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The Trent
04/09/21 9:26:10 AM
#9:


remember the people you are talking to

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UnfairRepresent
04/09/21 9:27:03 AM
#10:


Kaldrenthebold posted...
She's right


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^ Hey now that's completely unfair!
https://imgur.com/yPw05Ob
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gunplagirl
04/09/21 9:27:36 AM
#11:


IdiotMachine posted...
How could you expect high performance rating and a promotion after taking three months off? Thats ridiculous.
Unless she was doing work on vacation, it isn't something that should be held against someone.

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IdiotMachine
04/09/21 9:29:15 AM
#12:


FortuneCookie posted...
If she's denied a promotion because of her sex, that's discrimination no matter how much she's making.
It seems like shes framing it to make it look like that, but taking three months off and then still expecting high performance rating, especially at a fast-pace and highly visible position like Google, is ridiculous. Then getting a normal rating, then asking for a promotion, is doubling down on the ridiculousness.

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The Trent
04/09/21 9:30:04 AM
#13:


no you see google is in the wrong because company and they have the money to pay the employee so why don't they just do it

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IdiotMachine
04/09/21 9:30:47 AM
#14:


gunplagirl posted...
Unless she was doing work on vacation, it isn't something that should be held against someone.
Taking vacation = no work progressing. Performance rating depends entirely on your work progressing.

If youre taking a couple weeks here or there, it shouldnt affect your rating; but if you take a couple weeks during critical times, or taking a massive time off? You bet your ass youre not getting a 5/5.

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The Trent
04/09/21 9:32:11 AM
#15:


IdiotMachine posted...
If youre taking a couple weeks here or there, it shouldnt affect your rating; but if you take a couple weeks during critical times, or taking a massive time off? You bet your ass youre not getting a 5/5.

people that are going to tell you that you are wrong have no idea how any of this works but a lot of confidence about how everything should work

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#16
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The Trent
04/09/21 9:33:20 AM
#17:


literally 25% of the year she was off IN A BLOCK
if that's her vacation allotment and that's the way the system works, then there should absolutely be no punishment for that because she did what was allowed
however, to be incensed you don't get promoted after that is some stupid entitled bullshit

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gunplagirl
04/09/21 9:34:01 AM
#18:


IdiotMachine posted...
Taking vacation = no work progressing. Performance rating depends entirely on your work progressing.

If youre taking a couple weeks here or there, it shouldnt affect your rating; but if you take a couple weeks during critical times, or taking a massive time off? You bet your ass youre not getting a 5/5.
Performance ratings should be based solely on the quality of your work. Unless she took her vacation smack dab in the middle of some huge project only possible to complete on time with her there, and she knew it was coming up when she scheduled the vacation? Holding it against her for taking her contractually entitled vacation time is fucking petty.

But then, I remembered your username so I can only hope you're pretending.

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gunplagirl
04/09/21 9:36:03 AM
#19:


TC as an employer: oh, you went home after work? You're not progressing your work, so the best I can possibly do is give you a 3/5 review.

Taking work home and illegally working off the clock? Great commitment but you're opening us up to a lot of financial and legal problems. 1/5, and you're fired.

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Squall28
04/09/21 9:37:00 AM
#20:


These performance rankings are often against your peers. You don't get a high ranking just for doing your job. You gotta go above and beyond.

I don't fault her for not being comfortable there anymore, or finding better opportunities elsewhere. But no need to throw your employer under the bus after they already dealt with the issue for you.

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IdiotMachine
04/09/21 9:37:06 AM
#21:


The Trent posted...
people that are going to tell you that you are wrong have no idea how any of this works but a lot of confidence about how everything should work
So to clarify on how things work for engineer performance ratings (from my experience at working for three different large companies as a mechanical engineer):
  • You are compared to other engineers at your job level, regardless of age/tenure.
  • Your job results (letters issued, money saved, time saved for field work, etc.) are metricable and you write this up.
  • In the end, a rating between 1-5 is handed out. This is handed out as a bell curve through the entire department. So for every 5 someone gets, someone gets a 1; etc.

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SergeantGander
04/09/21 9:37:09 AM
#22:


gunplagirl posted...
Unless she was doing work on vacation, it isn't something that should be held against someone.

I agree.

However, if the supervisors are monitoring work performance in anticipation of promotions, actively seeing your co-workers doing work and getting stuff done...why would they put the person that is away at their top of their list?

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Fam_Fam
04/09/21 9:37:42 AM
#23:


lol@corporate shills who think you should get low reviews for taking vacation time you are owed
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The Trent
04/09/21 9:37:52 AM
#24:


"welcome back from your entire 3 months off, it's time to do employee reviews in our HR cycle and honestly we haven't seen you work in 3 months, making your current work product as well as organization fit and productivity a little difficult to judge, so it's going to be a cost of living increase for you"
"THIS IS BULLSHIT"

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Kaldrenthebold
04/09/21 9:38:07 AM
#25:


IdiotMachine posted...
How could you expect high performance rating and a promotion after taking three months off? Thats ridiculous.

The point is, jobs don't care about you and you can get more money elsewhere. Don't love your job, it is a business contract back and forth. If they aren't holding up their end of the bargain, someone else will. I am in the same exact boat she is, minus 3 months paid vacation, plus lack of acknowledgement and salary. So my goal is to get a higher paying job since I have the ability and this job is clearly screwing me over.

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IdiotMachine
04/09/21 9:38:28 AM
#26:


Squall28 posted...
These performance rankings are often against your peers. You don't get a high ranking just for doing your job. You gotta go above and beyond.

I don't fault her for not being comfortable there anymore, or finding better opportunities elsewhere. But no need to throw your employer under the bus after they already dealt with the issue for you.
Yup. The first half of the article, i thought this was going to go somewhere else (like Google tried to cover up and stuff, as they did in the past).

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#27
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skermac
04/09/21 9:42:39 AM
#28:


IdiotMachine posted...
How could you expect high performance rating and a promotion after taking three months off? Thats ridiculous.

paid time off should not even be a factor

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SK8T3R215
04/09/21 9:42:49 AM
#29:


Women are so oppressed.

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krazychao5
04/09/21 9:43:11 AM
#30:


lmao i bet her new employers are real excited about her just shruggin' "yeah, it's a job" after professing so much love for the goog

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IdiotMachine
04/09/21 9:44:19 AM
#31:


skermac posted...
paid time off should not even be a factor
The point is the extended time off led to her performance reduction.

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Kakapo
04/09/21 9:44:26 AM
#32:


The Trent posted...
"welcome back from your entire 3 months off, it's time to do employee reviews in our HR cycle and honestly we haven't seen you work in 3 months, making your current work product as well as organization fit and productivity a little difficult to judge, so it's going to be a cost of living increase for you"
"THIS IS BULLSHIT"

Well, yeah. If it's approved leave, people shouldn't be penalised for it.

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The Trent
04/09/21 9:45:13 AM
#33:


Kakapo posted...
Well, yeah. If it's approved leave, people shouldn't be penalised for it.

she's not being penalized
not getting a promotion is not a penalty

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Squall28
04/09/21 9:45:53 AM
#34:


IdiotMachine posted...
In the end, a rating between 1-5 is handed out. This is handed out as a bell curve through the entire department. So for every 5 someone gets, someone gets a 1; etc.

Yeah it's not like an Uber rating where you get a 5 for just doing your job. If you get an equivalent to a 3/5, it means you did average compared to your peers. It's not bad. She did not get a bad review. She got a normal one.

I'm not a fan of pitting coworkers against each other but that's a different conversation.

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The Trent
04/09/21 9:47:49 AM
#35:


Squall28 posted...
I'm not a fan of pitting coworkers against each other but that's a different conversation.

THIS
my company doesn't rate bonuses against peers, and everyone in my industry that i've talked to from a company that did it that way absolutely hates it

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Kakapo
04/09/21 9:49:37 AM
#36:


The Trent posted...
she's not being penalized
not getting a promotion is not a penalty

Whether or not she's eligible for a promotion should be based on the work she's done during the time she's actually working. So, before she went on leave.

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uwnim
04/09/21 9:50:11 AM
#37:


Unless the company wants you to take your vacation in large chunks(like say they want you to use up all your time between big projects so they know you can't take off during them), if she did take 3 months off in a row or close to it, that would negatively affect things. Like the folks are going to partially forget you even exist.

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krazychao5
04/09/21 9:50:54 AM
#38:


Kakapo posted...
Whether or not she's eligible for a promotion should be based on the work she's done during the time she's actually working. So, before she went on leave.
and it is in relation to others looking for said promotion. so people who put in more work, more consistently, and also applied for promotion would be selected ahead. because they showed they are more reliable.

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The Trent
04/09/21 9:52:01 AM
#39:


Kakapo posted...
Whether or not she's eligible for a promotion should be based on the work she's done during the time she's actually working. So, before she went on leave.

perhaps the work she did 75% of the year was average?
there's a lot in play here

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The Trent
04/09/21 9:53:50 AM
#40:


The Trent posted...
people that are going to tell you that you are wrong have no idea how any of this works but a lot of confidence about how everything should work

Kakapo posted...
Well, yeah. If it's approved leave, people shouldn't be penalised for it.

Kakapo posted...
Whether or not she's eligible for a promotion should be based on the work she's done during the time she's actually working. So, before she went on leave.

dude you can tell me what should be all you want, i'm just going to tell you reality about how massive employers are going to treat this situation for the most part

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shironinja
04/09/21 9:56:26 AM
#41:


love what you do never work a day in your life.

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The Trent
04/09/21 9:57:14 AM
#42:


shironinja posted...
love what you do never work a day in your life.

i remember that episode of dexter

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IdiotMachine
04/09/21 9:57:19 AM
#43:


krazychao5 posted...
and it is in relation to others looking for said promotion. so people who put in more work, more consistently, and also applied for promotion would be selected ahead. because they showed they are more reliable.
^that. Youre not penalized for taking vacation. You just got a 3.

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Jagr_68
04/09/21 9:57:44 AM
#44:


Are we supposed to hate this person for looking out for herself cuz I'm not getting absolutely any of those bullet points.

This is just capitalist work culture in a nutshell.

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krazychao5
04/09/21 9:58:25 AM
#45:


Jagr_68 posted...
Are we supposed to hate this person for looking out for herself cuz I'm not getting absolutely any of those bullet points.

This is just capitalist work culture in a nutshell.
no, we are not supposed to feel bad for her, either.

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#46
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The Trent
04/09/21 9:59:09 AM
#47:


Jagr_68 posted...
This is just capitalist work culture in a nutshell.

this guy has read some dilbert comic strips in his life

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Kakapo
04/09/21 9:59:44 AM
#48:


Jagr_68 posted...
Are we supposed to hate this person for looking out for herself cuz I'm not getting absolutely any of those bullet points.

This is just capitalist work culture in a nutshell.

I think we're supposed to hate her for needing 3 months leave after being repeatedly sexually harrassed when the company refused to move the asshat from the desk next to her.

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The Trent
04/09/21 10:00:38 AM
#49:


if the message you're starting with is "are we supposed to hate her" then you've already fucked up
if you're trying to back into reasons that other posters in this thread hate her then what the fuck are you doing

nobody hates this lady

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MrToothHasYou
04/09/21 10:00:39 AM
#50:


Im confused as to why everyone is debating whether or not taking owed time off merits being given reduced review scores, when the author of this article literally states that she got high review scores after she returned:

I was able to earn a very high performance rating my second in a row.

She didnt get normal performance rating, TC just decided to lie about whats in the article and say that she did, for some reason.

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