Current Events > Healthcare is a privilege, not a right.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Is a stupid opinion.

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based op

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You expect the doctor to treat you for free?

coh posted...

You expect the doctor to treat you for free?

... Yeah? Mine already does. I haven't paid to see a doctor in years. Haven't paid for meds in years either.

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coh posted...

You expect the doctor to treat you for free?

No, he expects the government to pay the doctor, for the doctor to not be paid such an obscene amount of money, and for there to be no billionaire investors of a hospital making billions off of a Top 3 essential service.
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If we can print trillions of dollars for random shit every few months we absolutely can pay for healthcare for all Americans.

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HakubaofRommeI posted...

No, he expects the TAXPAYERS to pay the doctor, for the doctor to not be paid such an obscene amount of money, and for there to be no billionaire investors of a hospital making billions off of a Top 3 essential service.

Fixed.

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

Fixed.

Yep. I'm fine with it.
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HakubaofRommeI posted...

Yep. I'm fine with it.

Cool, then I propose a system where you can be taxed more, and you can have the healthcare.

And I won't be taxed and I won't be able to partake.

Simple. You get taxed more, my taxes are left alone, you get the healthcare, and I don't.

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

Cool, then I propose a system where you can be taxed more, and you can have the healthcare.

And I won't be taxed and I won't be able to partake.

Simple. You get taxed more, my taxes are left alone, you get the healthcare, and I don't.

Or you shut the fuck up and get taxed for everyone's healthcare including your own, or leave the country. Your only two options in a few years.
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HakubaofRommeI posted...

Or you shut the fuck up and get taxed for everyone's healthcare including your own, or leave the country. Your only two options in a few years.

Oh? Such bold words. But why should I be taxed for everyone else's sake?

The government already takes %30 of my bi-weekly paycheck. Is that not enough? And I'm not a rich man by any means, actually, you could probably consider me to be lower class. I don't need government assistance, I need to keep my own god damned money.

Also, go fuck yourself, I tried to propose a solution that would appeal to everyone and you tell me to shut the fuck up? Get lost. Your solution doesn't help anyone.

Also, telling me to leave the country. Lol.

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

Cool, then I propose a system where you can be taxed more, and you can have the healthcare.

And I won't be taxed and I won't be able to partake.

Simple. You get taxed more, my taxes are left alone, you get the healthcare, and I don't.

Do you complain about taxes for police, fire service? Taxes to your council/state/whatever for service to water pipes, bin men, waste etc?

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But why should I be taxed for everyone else's sake?

As one man once said, "We live in a society."

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

Simple. You get taxed more, my taxes are left alone, you get the healthcare, and I don't

And what do you propose is done when you can't pay your medical Bill's?

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Also, if you pay taxes, you're paying for other's health expenses. If you have a job with health benefits, you're also doing that, because you're paying into an insurance pool.

There is no situation where you don't pay for other's healthcare unless you simply remove yourself from the grid.

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Funkydog posted...

Do you complain about taxes for police, fire service? Taxes to your council/state/whatever for service to water pipes, bin men, waste etc?

I have no problem paying %5 or even %10 of my paychecks in taxes for these essential services. But %30? Really? That's far too much, especially when I, as a lower class citizen, apparently make to much to be eligible for any government assistance, so it keeps me poor, because I can't keep my own money.

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I mean, I'm not a "hater" when it comes to Conservatives/Republicans (well tbh I "hate" both sides) but I agree.

Healthcare should definitely be a right and not a privilege.

It would be nice if we can get universal healthcare patted down just right.

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Funkydog posted...

Do you complain about taxes for police, fire service? Taxes to your council/state/whatever for service to water pipes, bin men, waste etc?

He's okay with those because he likes them, but not taking the extra step of including health services which ever other modernized country does.

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coh posted...

You expect the doctor to treat you for free?

I don't expect him to gauge me with fees and leave in bankrupcty.
That's your so fabled first world healthcare system in this country.
More like total garbage.

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

I have no problem paying %5 or even %10 of my paychecks in taxes for these essential services. But %30? Really? That's far too much, especially when I, as a lower class citizen, apparently make to much to be eligible for any government assistance, so it keeps me poor, because I can't keep my own money.

Here's a shocking fact: People wanting to give everybody healthcare also support expanding the definition of poverty so more people get support.

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It pretty much is. You'll be poor but that's okay these days

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HakubaofRommeI posted...

No, he expects the government to pay the doctor, for the doctor to not be paid such an obscene amount of money, and for there to be no billionaire investors of a hospital making billions off of a Top 3 essential service.

~End of Topic~

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SevenTenths posted...

And what do you propose is done when you can't pay your medical Bill's?

Hah! You all think I want to live? No, if I ever end up with those serious of medical bills, I'll just die. That's why it can be optional. So people who don't want to die, can have their taxes raised and be eligible for the healthcare.

Zero_Destroyer posted...

Also, if you pay taxes, you're paying for other's health expenses. If you have a job with health benefits, you're also doing that, because you're paying into an insurance pool.

There is no situation where you don't pay for other's healthcare unless you simply remove yourself from the grid.

Yes, do you see the problem here?

The government takes my money and gives it to those "in need" when I am in fact one of those who are "in need", but the best thing that would help me, is if they didn't take so much of my money. That's would help me the most.

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Zero_Destroyer posted...

He's okay with those because he likes them, but not taking the extra step of including health services which ever other modernized country does.

Damn, it's crazy, didn't I say I have no problem being taxed for those like, two posts prior? Can you read?

Zero_Destroyer posted...

Here's a shocking fact: People wanting to give everybody healthcare also support expanding the definition of poverty so more people get support.

Here's another shocking fact, if the government didn't take so much of my money, I could better myself without their assistance, it's true I've done the math.

If the government taxed exactly %13 per paycheck, I could afford to live in an apartment by myself at 18. As well as have full utilities, and put money into my 401K. I wouldn't have as much free spending money, but I'd make it work. But the fact that they tax me %30 is what's keeping me from doing that. They say they want to help me so they raise my taxes, when in fact their "help" is what's keeping me from helping myself. I don't need charity, I need them to keep their hands out of my wallet.

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HakubaofRommeI posted...

Or you shut the fuck up and get taxed for everyone's healthcare including your own, or leave the country. Your only two options in a few years.

I don't think giving them an option to leave is something we should strive for, because it implies that's somewhere out there there's a place where Health Care isn't publicly paid for.

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

Cool, then I propose a system where you can be taxed more, and you can have the healthcare.

And I won't be taxed and I won't be able to partake.

Simple. You get taxed more, my taxes are left alone, you get the healthcare, and I don't.

Ok as long as you realize that in that case anyone who doesnt partake in government healthcare would have premiums that shot through the roof as insurance companies are trying to recoup the cost of everyone leaving.

PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

I have no problem paying %5 or even %10 of my paychecks in taxes for these essential services. But %30? Really? That's far too much, especially when I, as a lower class citizen, apparently make to much to be eligible for any government assistance, so it keeps me poor, because I can't keep my own money.

I'm not sure where I claimed you needed to be taxed 30% for anything so why are you bringing it up?

But if you are alright paying taxes for a service you likely don't use much, if at all, why aren't you for healthcare in similar circumstances? And why not just put taxes on the rich, rather than the poor, to your next "counter"

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

Damn, it's crazy, didn't I say I have no problem being taxed for those like, two posts prior? Can you read?

Here's another shocking fact, if the government didn't take so much of my money, I could better myself without their assistance, it's true I've done the math.

If the government taxed exactly %13 per paycheck, I could afford to live in an apartment by myself at 18. As well as have full utilities, and put money into my 401K. I wouldn't have as much free spending money, but I'd make it work. But the fact that they tax me %30 is what's keeping me from doing that. They say they want to help me so they raise my taxes, when in fact their "help" is what's keeping me from helping myself. I don't need charity, I need them to keep their hands out of my wallet.

Just for reference there is no 30% tax bracket. There is a 24% and a 32%. 24% is income from $85,526-163,300. 32% is $163,301- 207,350.
The 12% tax bracket goes up to $40,125. Im assuming at 18 you should be able to find something if you make 40k a year. But hey, if you were taxed 30%, that means you were making around 160k... so if you werent able to buy an apartment, exactly how much money did you waste regularly?

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/taxes/federal-income-tax-brackets

daynlokki posted...

Ok as long as you realize that in that case anyone who doesnt partake in government healthcare would have premiums that shot through the roof as insurance companies are trying to recoup the cost of everyone leaving.

How is that a problem? If their healthcare becomes too expensive, then they opt to have their taxes raised and enroll in the government option.

I do not require healthcare. I do not pay for health insurance. I do not want health insurance. If something happens to me, I will simply die.

Why should anyone force me to have healthcare, and force me to pay for it?

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If you applied for Obamacare and were approved, then you certainly are privileged. I was denied when I was unemployed and they claimed that my income was too high (I still have the paperwork). When I reapplied, they just stonewalled me and wouldnt even provide a good reason. The program is supposed to be free healthcare for everyone, but I get left out? How??

PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

How is that a problem? If their healthcare becomes too expensive, then they opt to have their taxes raised and enroll in the government option.

I do not require healthcare. I do not pay for health insurance. I do not want health insurance. If something happens to me, I will simply die.

Why should anyone force me to have healthcare, and force me to pay for it?

Because when you inevitably need care for something youre already forcing the taxpayers to pay your way.

Payzmaykr posted...

If you applied for Obamacare and were approved, then you certainly are privileged. I was denied when I was unemployed and they claimed that my income was too high (I still have the paperwork). When I reapplied, they just stonewalled me and wouldnt even provide a good reason. The program is supposed to be free healthcare for everyone, but I get left out? How??

What state?

PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

I do not require healthcare. I do not pay for health insurance. I do not want health insurance. If something happens to me, I will simply die.

Why should anyone force me to have healthcare, and force me to pay for it?

sounds like you need some kind of help if not health insurance. most people are not like.. that

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daynlokki posted...

Just for reference there is no 30% tax bracket. There is a 24% and a 32%. 24% is income from $85,526-163,300. 32% is $163,301- 207,350.
The 12% tax bracket goes up to $40,125. Im assuming at 18 you should be able to find something if you make 40k a year. But hey, if you were taxed 30%, that means you were making around 160k... so if you werent able to buy an apartment, exactly how much money did you waste regularly?

Not that Im siding with Mr I dont need healthcare just let me die but this is an asinine argument to make. When you add up federal income and payroll taxes, state income taxes, local/county earned income taxes, etc you can easily get to 30% depending on your location. Especially if youre forced to work as a self-employed independent contractor instead of an employee as more and more people find themselves forced to do.

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daynlokki posted...

Just for reference there is no 30% tax bracket. There is a 24% and a 32%. 24% is income from $85,526-163,300. 32% is $163,301- 207,350.
The 12% tax bracket goes up to $40,125. Im assuming at 18 you should be able to find something if you make 40k a year.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/taxes/federal-income-tax-brackets

Ok, I will break down my personal finances now. I didn't want to do this, but I will.

I make 13.25 per hour and work on average 40 hours a week. 80 hours per paycheck.
However I usually have a bit of overtime, and my checks usually balance out to $1,100 pre tax. That's $2,200 per month as I am paid bi-weekly.

However I put %6 of that into my 401K as my employer matches it. So I put in $132 per month into my 401K.

So we are at.

$1,034 bi-weekly
$2,068 per month.

Now let's assume taxes don't exist.

$2,068 per month.
-$75 per month. (Phone Bill.)
-$175 per month. (Car insurance.)
-$600 per month. (Apartment.)
-$200 per month. (Estimated utility use.)
-$120 per month. (Other expenses.)

That's a total of $1,170. Per month on expenses. And I believe that's on the low side, as I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

That would leave me with $898 per month to save. More likely less than that. But that's far from bad.

Now here's the problem.

I don't take home $1,034 per paycheck. I take home around $775-$800. So accounting for my 401K input that puts me at around a %25 of my income taxed. I apologise, I thought it was %30. Math truly is magical.

Now if the government taxed me %13, I would take home around $900 bi-weekly. Or $1,800 per month.

Which would leave me $630 per month to spend as I please.

I could absolutely live off of $630 a month. Of course, this is assuming my other calculations are accurate. Again, I may have forgotten a bill or something I need to pay.

Anyways but I take home $1,600 per month.

Minus the $1,170 that leaves me $430 per month.

That's just simply not enough. Especially since it's most likely less, since, again, my initial estimates may be wrong.

If I were taxed less, I would simply be better off.

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HakubaofRommeI posted...

Or you shut the fuck up and get taxed for everyone's healthcare including your own, or leave the country. Your only two options in a few years.

Why you love totalitarianism, bruh?

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

If the government taxed exactly %13 per paycheck, I could afford to live in an apartment by myself at 18. As well as have full utilities, and put money into my 401K. I wouldn't have as much free spending money, but I'd make it work. But the fact that they tax me %30 is what's keeping me from doing that. They say they want to help me so they raise my taxes, when in fact their "help" is what's keeping me from helping myself. I don't need charity, I need them to keep their hands out of my wallet.

This is called the poverty trap and its a real thing, sorry to hear you're going through this.


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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

If the government taxed exactly %13 per paycheck, I could afford to live in an apartment by myself at 18

I make good money and my effective income tax was 14% with just a standard deduction

The government isnt taking 13% and people like you aren't the ones who will get a tax hike to pay for it. It will be people like me who another 2-5% isn't that big of a deal. And adding an additional tax bracket for people beyond me who can absorb the burden with even less impact.

Which isn't even taking into account no longer losing a portion of your check to pay for health insurance and eliminating one of the parasites that have bloated healthcare cost.

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