Current Events > I'll never understand the disdain towards Easy Modes

(+) Yeah! (+)

As I got older I have less interest in difficulty. Especially in rpgs. So I started my persona royal file on easy.
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I really yet to see an argument for it that wasn't rooted in either FOMO (Oh no, my life is ruined because I can't see the end of this video game) and/or a willful desire to maintain the illusion of achievement brought by playing the game (having to "beat" Cuphead themselves rather than just watching the ending on youtube). Both start getting very childish in my eyes. Games are supposed to be fun, but if you're only having fun if you're winning, you have issues. There are a lot of games I never beat from back in the day, and while I'll never beat Zombies ate my Neighbors, I have fun every failed attempt. If I stop having fun playing the game, it really isn't hurting me in any way to not finish it and just move onto something else.

Others seem to have problems with that and try to hide being a bad loser and their frustration at not being immediately good at something under some idea that their owed beating a game on their terms. At best, it's annoying and arrogant how people act at even that tiny level of being told no to that. At worst, it worries me at a cultural level as it seems we have a culture being bred to cry about having to face any challenge or minor hardship, and I wonder how a life of such "easy modes" have really not prepared people to face even a tiny inconvenience.

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16-BITTER posted...

I don't have a problem with Easy Modes being in a game.

I also don't have a problem with Easy Modes not being in a game.

This, really.
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Gladius_ posted...

Does it matter? Fact is there's demand for that kinda game.

Yeah and it's dumb and toxic.

Sure. They probably would and such arguments would be ridiculous. At the same time if you have a game franchise with difficulties and take them away people would get angry as well. To me games are a hobby they aren't a life for me.

Me too. Which is why I find these attitudes such as yours to be totally puzzling.

The only argument that matters is if it's the developer's vision. If it sells well their vision was correct in the eyes of the consumer. If it sells poorly then it was a terrible decision. This is literally all that matters.

Why do you get to decide that?

Why is no one allowed to criticize something for sucking?

ViewtifulGrave posted...

I think its people like the TC in this thread that annoy people.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/241157-control/78659446

Why?

Why would Control having a easy mode effect you at all?

EnvoyOfTheLight posted...

Guy in the video is dumb as heck. If it forced the suit on you, that's one thing, but you don't have to touch the block at all.

Exactly

lightwarrior78 posted...

I really yet to see an argument for it that wasn't rooted in either FOMO (Oh no, my life is ruined because I can't see the end of this video game) and/or a willful desire to maintain the illusion of achievement brought by playing the game (having to "beat" Cuphead themselves rather than just watching the ending on youtube). Both start getting very childish in my eyes. Games are supposed to be fun, but if you're only having fun if you're winning, you have issues. There are a lot of games I never beat from back in the day, and while I'll never beat Zombies ate my Neighbors, I have fun every failed attempt. If I stop having fun playing the game, it really isn't hurting me in any way to not finish it and just move onto something else.

Others seem to have problems with that and try to hide being a bad loser and their frustration at not being immediately good at something under some idea that their owed beating a game on their terms. At best, it's annoying and arrogant how people act at even that tiny level of being told no to that. At worst, it worries me at a cultural level as it seems we have a culture being bred to cry about having to face any challenge or minor hardship, and I wonder how a life of such "easy modes" have really not prepared people to face even a tiny inconvenience.

Games are amusements

If a guy can have fun on an optional easy mode that is objectivey superior to them having to quit and no longer have fun solely because that's what you did and you're terrified of chage.

And no, a dude playing Metal Gear Solid 3 on Easy doesn't meant he is not "Prepared for inconviences in real life." that's absurd.


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UnfairRepresent posted...

Metal Gear Solid 3

its funny the whiners that cry twin snakes sucks cos mgs1 isnt designed for 1st person camera are the same people that have no issue playing subsistence with over the shoulder camera when mgs3 is clearly designed for top down camera.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Why would Control having a easy mode effect you at all?

Where did I say that I had a problem with easy modes?

Also Control has assist mode options available.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

And no, a dude playing Metal Gear Solid 3 on Easy doesn't meant he is not "Prepared for inconviences in real life." that's absurd.

Why is it absurd. I've seen it in real life and had courses on some of this while I got my degree. While not a sole factor, being able to just dial back the difficulty on a whim leaves people conditioned to think that's how problems are solved, and unprepared when life doesn't let them, and we've ended up with a generation full of people that think what prior generations lived through is sadistic torture and cry about even the concept of "do your best".

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UnfairRepresent posted...

https://youtu.be/DKiBTMbJU2k

Guy who literally whines that "Trial and error" is how a video game should be

That guy is wrong, but has points worth making. And I think is more correct than incorrect.

I think the Tanooki suit is ok. I like the idea better than straight up difficulty modes. But what you might be missing is according to a little research I did... Your quote here:

UnfairRepresent posted...

Not even that. In Golden Axe 3 you didn't get the good ending unless you beat it without using a continue

Which was fucking brutal

it even had a skip stage cheat but still played the bad ending if you used it.

I don't get why anyone thinks thats good design, it simply isn't

Is kinda what Nintendo did a bit.

If you beat a stage with the tanooki suit it seems to show this in someway as a negative. (the star record for the stage)

That's an example of what I think what Golden Axe did is good design. And Nintendo did similar with the tanooki suit. (But I'd like the negative effect to be even stronger in those Mario games. (lets say you can only get max 1 star per area, and the star shows up as silver) And yes, I'm okay with criticizing a game dev for their difficulty settings and consequences. I just tend to go in the opposite end of the spectrum from UR)

What Golden Axe did is what most games should do. It even penalized people using the level skip trick and prevented the good ending if used. Perfect. Fits what I suggested earlier in the thread:

Notti posted...

I think it is worth it for the game company to have people who did things the hard way be recognized more (high score, achievement, exclusive ending/item/perk for beating hard mode), and I do think it pays (for the game company) to do so more so than giving the same rewards to Very Easy vs Nightmare modes.

But locking bosses and best weapon isn't "the full experience".

And you're not both climbing the mountain. One climbed the mountain. The other 'climbed' the mountain.

Also consider the developer wants the hard (or even Normal) mode to be "the full experience". If the dev can bend to Easy Mode players to include the mode, I don't see why the devs can't also bend to make certain bits exclusive to the harder modes.

Finally, a bad ending can be its own experience. (a well put together one too) So you could say Easy mode has its own exclusive.

I think it's more that people like to have their accomplishments mean something more. And yes, mean something to others not just themselves.

If only 100 people in the world climb Mount Everest, that does mean more than if it becomes so easy 10,000,000 people do. That's just the reality of it.

Notti posted...

It's like saying you climbed a mountain, but you used the lift system and had sherpa guides carry all your stuff, hold your hand, and have these pre beaten out trails and pre set camps ready for you.

It makes the accomplishment seem lesser for those who did it the old way.

I'd like it if the game has easy modes though. I even use them too sometimes.

But, the easy mode needs to be missing things. Like the good ending (and have it let you know you got the bad one and how to get the good one), and maybe at least 1 exclusive weapon / armor / final final boss in the hardest mode. (it would also be fine to have this info pop up as you choose the difficulties so you know before choosing)

Overall it's not the biggest issue, but now that you mention it, that's the main reason imo and the best fix.

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Its very rare that they interfere with anyone except people mad others get to have fun

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https://youtu.be/uS1LmpiJFaM

Oh, forgot about this:

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/11/16

Penny Arcade making a good point.
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When i figured out you could change the combat difficulty on Skyrim, it made the game even more amazing for me. I don't want to be stuck running around and trading blows with enemy after enemy. I want to one shot that bitch and move on. I'm the motherfuckin Dragonborn, bitch.

That being said I will usually always go for Normal Mode in a game after beating TimeSplitters 2 a ton on Easy Mode as a kid only to find out years later that it cuts half the mission out.

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RPGS don't count. But generally an easy difficulty is nowhere compared to an easy difficulty in NES days. It was my first console as well and it will be my son's first console. I haven't decided yet how fast I graduate technology levels BUT HE WILL SUFFER THE SAME AS I DID WITH THE DIFFICULTY CURVE IN GAMES. IT WILL MAKE HIM STRONGER. WITH LUCK HE MAY EVEN BE A COUCH DWELLING SPEEDRUNNER, AND IF INHERITS MY CHARSIMA AND HIS MOTHER'S DEDICATION TO CRAFT A YOUTUBE PERSONALITY

HUZZAH, I CAN SEE THE FUTURE OPENING ITS EYES. HE WILL BE A TITAN

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But yeah normal mode is fine and achievements/trophies have gotten ridiculous. Generally they're taking the place of higher difficulties.

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I would prefer games have an automatic mode that plays itself like in NieR Automata and some other games rather than developers trying to balance for multiple experiences. A lot of times the modes are just arbitrary number changes with little thought put into it.

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ghostblob posted...

Pretty much all games should have an easy mode and outside of saving being less restricted modern games aren't any easier than games from 25 years ago.

ghostblob posted...

modern games aren't any easier than games from 25 years ago.

Come on, that's not true. The average difficulty today is ridiculously easier and hand holding nowadays. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but there's no reason to deny it either.

The biggest issue is now some are trying to insist games like dark souls etc SHOULD have an easy mode.

Like every game should have cheat codes. Or should have a cheat console. Built in. As the default even.

Here, a baby beats street fighter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrafcEBhx-Y

https://vimeo.com/50357921

Games are easier.

ShyOx posted...

But yeah normal mode is fine and achievements/trophies have gotten ridiculous. Generally they're taking the place of higher difficulties.

I think thats true, the observation that games nowadays are replacing hard modes with rougher achievements is 1 way games are trying to have 1 base difficulty mode (casual cakewalk+talk easy), but with multiple side paths that have some bite to them. (rougher side bosses, special rewards for doing difficult X feat on a boss fight etc)

Dynamic difficulties is another way. In that case though I'm not sure I enjoy the AI all of a sudden going easy on me. Seems trying to appeal to all in 1 size fits all type of solution is harder than it looks :(
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WaterLink posted...

And thats fine. But if game designers want to make a challenging game they shouldn't be shamed for not including an easy mode. If someone doesn't play games to be challenged (which again, is fine) then maybe they shouldn't play games that are specifically designed to be challenging.

Simply put if a game designer wants to include difficulty options such as an easy mode, thats fine and I dont care if people play on easy mode as it doesn't affect me. People shouldn't be asking them to remove easy mode (and honestly I never see this happen). But if game designers want to make a game where part of the appeal is how challenging it is and chooses not to include easier modes, then they shouldn't be demanded to make the game easier as it simply just isn't part of their vision of what they want to create.

I think the intention of the developer does make a huge difference to what options they want a player to experience during their... ride.

I think of games a bit like amusement park experiences. And the intentionally hard ones are meant to be like a horror show or extreme roller coaster.

They are meant to scare you and you don't have much escape. That's part of the experience.
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Only time I've ever complained about easy mode is back in the day when easy mode only gave a few levels before saying "lol hit gud scrub! Game over!"

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lol I never saw that video of Mike complaining about the White Tanooki suit. No offense to him but after that I can never take anything he says seriously again


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I have to say, I was thrilled that Soma added a "safe" mode. Monsters will attack you, but don't kill you. I was more interested in the setting and reading the files than playing hide and seek for five minutes before it wandered off.

Kind of worked too. They just became like an annoying younger brother when you were trying to read a book and they just kept making obnoxious noises.

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It's more about easy mode making hard games like dark souls or souls like games too easy and pointless

Since the challenging gameplay is most of the game, with so much less story easy mode makes much less sense

Heavily plot based games having an easy mode usually isn't bad.

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leverageblargh posted...

I'm terrible at games and always went for easy mode as a kid, normal later on. Used cheats/trainers in pretty much any game involving guns (except Cuphead).

The downside is you get lazy if that's what you do your whole life. Then comes a point when you get bored and want to diversify but can't because you have no skill or patience left.

If I didn't have all these crutches maybe I would have put in some effort and got better but who knows, maybe it would have turned me off from even more games.

For real though, Cuphead is fairly challenging. I think you don't sound so bad.
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