Current Events > I'll never understand the disdain towards Easy Modes

(+) Yeah! (+)

How can I fill the emptiness of my life if I can't feel better about beating a game that you can't?

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16-BITTER posted...

"Why isn't every game designer on earth catering to meee?"

Isn't wanting to remove easy modes for others asking game designers to cater to you?

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Squall28 posted...

The insult is for games that don't require much input from the player. You don't have to worry about mechanics. No learning patterns. No struggle. No payoff. You just go through the motions. And easy mode stuff bleeds into the rest of the game.

That was just nonsense gibberish

How the fuck does easy mode "bleed into" anything?

And if you can't enjoy a game unless it's a grind that's fine, but why is an option for other people a problem?

It's just weird arrogance

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There is a certain difference between overcoming something in which there is only one single option and overcoming something that has several options. As to why there is a difference, I have no idea, but Id imagine that is part of the reason some people find roguelikes so appealing. No reason for anyone to be an asshole over it either way though.

Southernfatman posted...

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Isn't wanting to add easy modes for others asking game designers to cater to you?

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WaterLink posted...

Isn't wanting to add easy modes for others asking game designers to cater to you?

I don't' care either way. I'm just not going to get upset that there's an easy mode in the game.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


You're the complaining about them. Removed or not added, whatever.

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Just wait until all these babies demanding there be no easy mode learn about dynamic difficulties.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

How the fuck does easy mode "bleed into" anything?

these are the same people that cry about twin snakes being ruined cos it has first person aiming. dont fucking use it then.

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LordFarquad1312 posted...

Funny you mention Turtles in Time, a game that locks you out of the ending if you play on easy.

This was with most game sback in the day. You could never get the true ending unless you played on hard. I remember a game called d-force for the snes. If you played on easy mode, you couldn't go past the 3rd level. Maybe it was th second, I dont remember to well. But yeah that's how games did ya back then.

Edit: some game slide super ghouls and ghost made you not only beat it on hand but also beat the game twice, to get the true ending.

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Pretty much all games should have an easy mode and outside of saving being less restricted modern games aren't any easier than games from 25 years ago.

I don't know why anyone cares how others play games. Not everyone plays games to be challenged

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Heartomaton posted...

Just wait until all these babies demanding there be no easy mode learn about dynamic difficulties.

... You can have both?

Resident Evil has since RE4

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16-BITTER posted...

Since you obviously didn't read the whole topic

You sure seemed to take offense at those types being made fun of.

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Usually play normal or below just to get through the game quicker, considering my backlog is so big
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yutterh posted...

This was with most game sback in the day. You could never get the true ending unless you played on hard. I remember a game called d-force for the snes. If you played on easy mode, you couldn't go past the 3rd level. Maybe it was th second, I dont remember to well. But yeah that's how games did ya back then.

Not even that. In Golden Axe 3 you didn't get the good ending unless you beat it without using a continue

Which was fucking brutal

it even had a skip stage cheat but still played the bad ending if you used it.

I don't get why anyone thinks thats good design, it simply isn't

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ghostblob posted...

Pretty much all games should have an easy mode and outside of saving being less restricted modern games aren't any easier than games from 25 years ago.

I don't know why anyone cares how others play games. Not everyone plays games to be challenged

Depending on the kind of game, it can take away from the intended experience. Difficulty levels in a roguelike would literally cause it to stop being a roguelike. I like roguelites better myself, but itd be silly for all roguelikes to need to cater to that.

UnfairRepresent posted...

... You can have both?

Resident Evil has since RE4

https://i.imgur.com/HmPrhqS.gifv

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I'm fine with easy modes and people that want to play on the easy modes. That said I also feel like devs shouldn't feel forced to include an easy mode in their games if they don't want to do them.

nemu posted...

Depending on the kind of game, it can take away from the intended experience. Difficulty levels in a roguelike would literally cause it to stop being a roguelike. I like roguelights better myself, but itd be silly for all roguelikes to need to cater to that.

FTL is like the best Roguelike game ever made and has Easy, Normal, Hard

Da fuck are you on about?

This is just plain not true

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Squall28 posted...

Because easy mode back then is normal mode now. A lot of games these days aren't even games. They're more like interactive movies.

Sony literally ruined gaming with their influx of interactive movies.

Remember the Uncharted commercial back on PS3? "Its like you're just watching a movie"

And that was NOT a good thing

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UnfairRepresent posted...

FTL is like the best Roguelike game ever made and has Easy, Normal, Hard

Da fuck are you on about?

This is just plain not true

Its a non-traditional one in that case. Nothing wrong with it, but its not standard in the least.

Southernfatman posted...

Isn't wanting to remove easy modes for others asking game designers to cater to you?

Whos asking for this?

I thought the argument was people asking for easy modes in games when the developer has no intention to do so?

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Perascamin posted...

Sony literally ruined gaming with their influx of interactive movies.

Remember the Uncharted commercial back on PS3? "Its like you're just watching a movie"

And that was NOT a good thing

meh

I don't get how this is "ruining gaming" when the market is saturated with games. Non cinematic games haven't gone away

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ghostblob posted...

I don't know why anyone cares how others play games. Not everyone plays games to be challenged

And thats fine. But if game designers want to make a challenging game they shouldn't be shamed for not including an easy mode. If someone doesn't play games to be challenged (which again, is fine) then maybe they shouldn't play games that are specifically designed to be challenging.

Simply put if a game designer wants to include difficulty options such as an easy mode, thats fine and I dont care if people play on easy mode as it doesn't affect me. People shouldn't be asking them to remove easy mode (and honestly I never see this happen). But if game designers want to make a game where part of the appeal is how challenging it is and chooses not to include easier modes, then they shouldn't be demanded to make the game easier as it simply just isn't part of their vision of what they want to create.
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Ill preface this by saying Im an incredibly competitive person who always plays on the hardest hardest difficulty, I have a 2.0+ K/D in most any competitive game Ive played, and back in the early aughts I was a top fifty Tekken Tag Tournament player worldwide.

I could not care any less if theres an easy mode. Hell I couldnt care less if theres a very easy mode. In fact Ill go so far as to say its ridiculous to complain about the difficulty level someone else plays a game at, and it really does say something about you if you feel it isnt. It literally has absolutely no bearing on you or your abilities.


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i like easy modes in narrative games like uncharted when i just want to enjoy the story and be an unstoppable badass
i usually play games on the hardest difficulty once and once i beat it i never leave easy or normal again

easy mode is also great for when you are older and dont have as much time to play games as you used to so you cant commit to one for days at a time


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16-BITTER posted...

By using the same rhetoric you did from the other perspective? You never considered the other side of the argument and the reality that the people whining about every game needing an easy mode are every bit as immature as the people whining about their hard games getting an optional easy mode.

ViewtifulGrave posted...

Whos asking for this?

I thought the argument was people asking for easy modes in games when the developer has no intention to do so?

The topic is about people who disdain easy modes. I feel that goes past not agreeing with adding an easy modes in a game and is more about looking down on those who use it. That was who I was making fun of.

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WaterLink posted...

And thats fine. But if game designers want to make a challenging game they shouldn't be shamed for not including an easy mode. If someone doesn't play games to be challenged (which again, is fine) then maybe they shouldn't play games that are specifically designed to be challenging.

Why?

Do you not know what optional means?

Imagine whining about whether or not money should be put on free parking in Monopoly

Imagine a monopoly set that shuts down and clamps closed if you try to put money on Free Parking because ",the designers don't want it to be an option "?

Then insist that no one is allowed to call that stupid.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Imagine whining about whether or not money should be put on free parking in Monopoly

If someone wants to go through the effort of making a 3rd party mod to make the game easier there isn't anything stopping them just like no one is stopping you from using house rules on established board games.
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WaterLink posted...

If someone wants to go through the effort of making a 3rd party mod to make the game easier there isn't anything stopping them just like no one is stopping you from using house rules on established board games.

And people do make mods

That doesn't mean companies that make absurd decisions are immune to criticism

You have no actual merit to your argument beyond yelling

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I'm not yelling. If I make a beer that's 12% ABV, lightweights shouldn't tell me I need to release a weaker version of the same beer because it's too strong for them. They can go drink other beers. I make the beer that I want to create and sell.
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WaterLink posted...

I'm not yelling. If I make a beer that's 12% ABV, lightweights shouldn't tell me I need to release a weaker version of the same beer because it's too strong for them. They can go drink other beers. I make the beer that I want to create and sell.

Sure but people are allowed to criticize it.

Also comparing an amusing toy to a beverage is ludicrous

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UnfairRepresent posted...

That was just nonsense gibberish

How the fuck does easy mode "bleed into" anything?

And if you can't enjoy a game unless it's a grind that's fine, but why is an option for other people a problem?

It's just weird arrogance

Rofl. Just because you don't understand basic game design, doesn't make it gibberish. You ever play a game where you get stuck on a boss? What happens? You have to learn the boss's attack patterns. You have to know what moves in your arsenal can be used to beat him. You actually have to learn to play the game.

You'll one shot most bosses in games these days without even really knowing how to play. And it 100% bleeds into the rest of the game, and gaming in general. Things that were once features of easy mode become the normal. Your characters being able to face tank everything. Bosses melting from your attacks. Context buttons that play the game for you. Auto health regen.

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Im not reading the topic but this is a problem where the issue is more with how shallow the game is as opposed to rote difficulty.

This is apparent with games like the Elder Scrolls, where earlier games were "harder" not because they were actually difficult to play, but because their mechanics had depth that took effort to understand and apply for gameplay. Compare Morrowind to Skyrim. The difficulty is virtually the same, but the depth is vastly different.

And thats the difference. A game like Kerbal Space Program is easy as hell to just play, but the depth of what you can do within that game is what makes it so much fun.

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Squall28 posted...

Rofl. Just because you don't understand basic game design, doesn't make it gibberish. You ever play a game where you get stuck on a boss? What happens? You have to learn the boss's attack patterns. You have to know what moves in your arsenal can be used to beat him. You actually have to learn to play the game.

Why?

Why can't you just drop down to easy if you want too?

I'd have hated playing Mousetrap with you as a kid.

Hell looking back at bosses I got stuck on, I'd say over half of them just end up with you cheesing the AI. Especially if they are bullet sponges

Squall28 posted...

And it 100% bleeds into the rest of the game, a

yet you can't explain how

Squall28 posted...

Things that were once features of easy mode become the normal. Your characters being able to face tank everything. Bosses melting from your attacks. Context buttons that play the game for you. Auto health regen.

This just sounds like you're playing shitty games

I can't remember the last game I played with regenerating health, maybe Mass Effect 3 and that was only regen shields

Why not just play good games instead of whining that games have subtitle options so people can follow the dialogue

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You ever play a game where you get stuck on a boss? What happens?

i grind out a bunch of levels, come back, and smoke him. it still takes a few tries, even though i'm overleveled, because i am mashing attack and i'm not timely on my heals, i'm just kinda mashing those too lol. who needs to know a system?

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i feel most games should have 3 or 4 difficulty settings:
Easy
Normal
Hard
Very hard

A lot of people play on easy to see if they like a game, then they skip normal and go right to hard for a challenge. No game developer should be bashed for not including easy mode though if it was the creators choice, not all games are made for everyone, the Dark Souls games being a prime example.

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RiKuToTheMiGhtY posted...

No game developer should be bashed for not including easy mode though if it was the creators choice,

Why not?

RiKuToTheMiGhtY posted...

i feel most games should have 3 or 4 difficulty settings:
Easy
Normal
Hard
Very hard

A lot of people play on easy to see if they like a game, then they skip normal and go right to hard for a challenge

A lot of games are designed that way

Anyone who starts out playing Resident Evil Revelations on Infernal on their first play through is gonna have a bad time

While not impossible, they expect you to play on normal first and come back armed with knowledge , gear and experience

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@UnfairRepresent
Some creators design a game to be for hardcore gamers, like the nintendo hard games of NES and SNES.

You can not like it but no creator should be forced to add a difficulty as that is infringing on their creative choice.

I like having lots of options for difficulty but some creators do not believe the same and thats ok.

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Squall28 posted...

Because easy mode back then is normal mode now. A lot of games these days aren't even games. They're more like interactive movies.

yet everyone still plays them

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Sometimes I just want to have fun/catharsis/a power fantasy/story immersion and am not looking for a big challenge. (DOOM Eternal on Easy springs to mind.)

Therefore, my way of enjoying Souls-like and other difficult-by-design games these days is watching other people play them, and I've been playing a lot more "interactive fiction" titles lately.

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I don't hate easy modes I hate people thinking they're entitled to have them in every game.

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RiKuToTheMiGhtY posted...

@UnfairRepresent
Some creators design a game to be for hardcore gamers, like the nintendo hard games of NES and SNES.
You can not like it but no creator should be forced to add a difficulty as that is infringing on their creative choice.
I like having lots of options for difficulty but some creators do not believe the same and thats ok.

That's not a response to my question.

I said why should they be immune to criticism?

IF you designed a DVD that had no scene selection, no fast forward, no subtitle options and random swtiched off and ejected itself partway through viewing, forcing you to attempt to watch it through 8/9 times over before you saw the whole thing, that would be fucking dumb and everyone would call it fucking dumb.

The "Well legally they're allowed to do it, therefore it's wrong to bash them." argument would never be made ever in defense of that.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Do you have any evidence that the games would have sold better without difficulty options?

Either way your point is full of holes. If Dark Souls 4 released with difficulty options, all the same users currently arguign "It's up to the devs" would flip and scream/cry that they were included.

This never ever ever had anything to do with "respect to the devs" who constantly get pissed on and have to do what corporate wants them to do every step of development in the first place 97% of the time. It was always just a way for exetremely insecure people to feel superior to others.

Like this:

https://youtu.be/DKiBTMbJU2k

Guy who literally whines that "Trial and error" is how a video game should be

I'm with ya on competetive multiplayer games but single player ones? There is no valid argument against more options for players.

Brightness control
Subtitles
Diffculty
Contrast
Sound output

More power/options to the player to have fun with their toy = better toy.

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I think this started with streamers. People stream stuff on easy mode and then other people get mad because they say that the streamer isnt good enough to have followers.

Streamers ruined video games, though, so Im not surprised by this.

I think its people like the TC in this thread that annoy people.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/241157-control/78659446

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Guy in the video is dumb as heck. If it forced the suit on you, that's one thing, but you don't have to touch the block at all.

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