Current Events > One thing I preferred about old internet culture was that if you shared...

(+) Yeah! (+)

If you shared personal details, people weren't weird about it.

These days, there's this weird logic that "welp, he posted a picture that you can tell is from a burger king in south los angeles, so I can figure out his address and place of work, and so he's basically doxxed himself and all the consequences are on him."

It used to be you couldn't "doxx yourself" because it was understood that just because somebody could figure out personal things about you didn't give them free permission to do whatever they wanted on your life and that was somehow on you.

Lots more people would post pics of themselves, or their gfs/romantic interests. And everybody was just chill with it.

There are legitimately people out there who think if you mention your employer, it's your fault if they call your employer up and shit talk you to them.

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I remember internet culture when it was share nothing about yourself period that could identify you

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furb posted...

I remember internet culture when it was share nothing about yourself period that could identify you

That's always been the principle under which I've operated. No idea what TC's going on about.

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furb posted...

I remember internet culture when it was share nothing about yourself period that could identify you

This. You have never been able to put details about your life on the net and be safe. You're naive to think there was ever a time that you could. Even back when I was a kid with dial-up I was smart enough to know this

furb posted...

I remember internet culture when it was share nothing about yourself period that could identify you

This and that stuck with me.

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LordFarquad1312 posted...

That's always been the principle under which I've operated. No idea what TC's going on about.

Well not like "give your home address to random strangers who email you"

But like "here's a picture of me and my friend" or "I went to this cool place last week" and like people would have a vague sense of the city you live in and your job and things. And they wouldn't track you down after it.

Like these days I never see people post pictures of themselves or themselves and others because I think it's assumed that "welp people can use that and reverse image search and bother them on facebook and that's on you for sharing it."

To be clear are you agreeing that sharing minor details about yourself and your life justifies others like tracking down and dming your friends/employers/etc?

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Axiom posted...

This. You have never been able to put details about your life on the net and be safe. You're naive to think there was ever a time that you could. Even back when I was a kid with dial-up I was smart enough to know this

"Be safe" from what?

I'm not talking about scammers here.

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How old are we talking? Keep in mind that that recent duckbear doxx topic was all info from 2004.

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joe40001 posted...

To be clear are you agreeing that sharing minor details about yourself and your life justifies others like tracking down and dming your friends/employers/etc?

No, I don't agree with it, but I know better than to share those things which is why the most I've shared on this site about myself is my country and maybe my gender.

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Ditto with everyone but TC. Early internet was exactly

"welp, he posted a picture that you can tell is from a burger king in south los angeles, so I can figure out his address and place of work, and so he's basically doxxed himself and all the consequences are on him."

Maybe you're remembering a closer-knit group from an earlier time, but that was always the default. Don't trust strangers on the internet, don't follow the candy van, don't post pics that could give info.

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FL81 posted...

How old are we talking? Keep in mind that that recent duckbear doxx topic was all info from 2004.

But it wasn't a doxx topic back then. That it was up and around forever just shows that the culture didn't care back then.

Doxxing to me is 2 things: 1. Somebody knowing some personal specifics 2. People using those personal things to harass or disrupt your personal life.

It seems modern culture conflates the two, and back then lots of us knew specifics about each other, but it never occured to any of us to use it to say call up somebody's employer or track them down on facebook.

Did duckbear harass anybody? Did anybody get harassed from that list ever?

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I can't imagine functioning without the basic idea of extrapolating "don't talk to strangers" but the internet version where you also add "don't give your personal information online or you're a fucking moron"

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EnvoyOfTheLight posted...

Ditto with everyone but TC. Early internet was exactly

Maybe you're remembering a closer-knit group from an earlier time, but that was always the default. Don't trust strangers on the internet, don't follow the candy van, don't post pics that could give info.

I'm not saying sharing SSN

But definitely on places like CE and other places people just shared details without others being super weird about it.

Like are we really at the point where people think it's "unsafe" to post your name and city? And if so what is "unsafe" about it?

I'm not talking about credit card fraud, I'm talking about others tracking you down and harassing you personally. That seems common on twitter these days, but as I remember was basically unheard of then.

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joe40001 posted...

But it wasn't a doxx topic back then. That it was up and around forever just shows that the culture didn't care back then.

Doxxing to me is 2 things: 1. Somebody knowing some personal specifics 2. People using those personal things to harass or disrupt your personal life.

It seems modern culture conflates the two, and back then lots of us knew specifics about each other, but it never occured to any of us to use it to say call up somebody's employer or track them down on facebook.

Did duckbear harass anybody? Did anybody get harassed from that list ever?

That list only existed cause the group was tighter, and tight groups in public forums were more common cause lol early aughts internet. Now we're at a weird place with bigotry and unstable people who are definitely not friendly.

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The pettiness of anonymous internet users knows no bounds.

I still dont understand why people voluntarily post pictures of themselves on CE.

Cookie Bag posted...

I can't imagine functioning without the basic idea of extrapolating "don't talk to strangers" but the internet version where you also add "don't give your personal information online or you're a fucking moron"

it really doesn't take much to identify a person, even from the most innocuous and seemingly impersonal array of information.

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TheMikh posted...

it really doesn't take much to identify a person, even from the most innocuous and seemingly impersonal array of information.

I mean with a place like CE? sure, plenty of psychopaths around to pick and choose from, ball is on your field here at least where you know that is a fact and its 100% on you if you give information, and we all know how people just fucking love to give their information away on this place with plenty of attention whoring topics and such, even though you got literal insane morons keeping spreadsheets of users.

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furb posted...

I remember internet culture when it was share nothing about yourself period that could identify you

Yup. It's wild to me how much information people freely give out on the Internet now. Boomers and Gen Z alike. At the risk of sounding like an old fogey myself, I think that's because Boomers grew up without the Internet and don't know how to act on it. It's mostly the younger Gen Z that struggles with it. The "Internet" that they grew up on (which is largely confined to apps and highly corporate websites) is very different from the Internet I grew up with. So many sketchy angelfire and geocities sites...

gamer167 posted...

The pettiness of anonymous internet users knows no bounds.

I still dont understand why people voluntarily post pictures of themselves on CE.

Why shouldn't they?

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Cookie Bag posted...

its 100% on you if you give information

What does this mean?


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_Rinku_ posted...

Yup. It's wild to me how much information people freely give out on the Internet now. Boomers and Gen Z alike. At the risk of sounding like an old fogey myself, I think that's because Boomers grew up without the Internet and don't know how to act on it. It's mostly the younger Gen Z that struggles with it. The "Internet" that they grew up on (which is largely confined to apps and highly corporate websites) is very different from the Internet I grew up with. So many sketchy angelfire and geocities sites...

It boggles my mind the amount of information my actual boomer mother, who always told me not to post personal information on the internet, has over social media, when I only have a Twitter account I barely post on.

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joe40001 posted...

What does this mean?

I already said, at least in the case of CE specifically, though it applies to almost anywhere, you know there's fucking unhinged people around here, why would you ever risk giving any sort of information, at all.

You got literal psychopaths keeping spreadsheets and screenshots of other user to use later against them, or doxx them, or whatever, everyone knows this, yet some people are just happy to throw snipets away of their life because, fuck if i know.

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Cookie Bag posted...

I already said, at least in the case of CE specifically, though it applies to almost anywhere, you know there's fucking unhinged people around here, why would you ever risk giving any sort of information, at all.

You got literal psychopaths keeping spreadsheets and screenshots of other user to use later against them, or doxx them, or whatever, everyone knows this, yet some people are just happy to throw snipets away of their life because, fuck if i know.

You aren't clarifying though.

You are like "there are crazies so if you share your name/city..." what? If they track you down on facebook, that's on you? If they get you fired that's on you? If they show up at your house that's on you?

If so, when did we get to the point that the people conducting inappropriate behavior were not accountable for their actions?

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This is so weird, are you really telling me no one ever told you in your life while growing up not to share personal information or to talk to strangers? is it really such an alien idea to go online and not give any sort of personal information? like i assume you're old enough to know this shit yet you have this delusion that "in the older times" people casually shared information online?

I can't remember a single time in the 90's where people weren't cautious about the information they shared online, this just sounds like poor education and deflecting blame to me.

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joe40001 posted...

If so, when did we get to the point that the people conducting inappropriate behavior were not accountable for their actions?

When we bagan teaching kids not to talk to strangers and to never go near people offering candy on a van.

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furb posted...

I remember internet culture when it was share nothing about yourself period that could identify you

Facts.

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LordFarquad1312 posted...

It boggles my mind the amount of information my actual boomer mother, who always told me not to post personal information on the internet, has over social media, when I only have a Twitter account I barely post on.

My mother does the same. She also believes a lot of the completely off the wall, obviously tabloid bullshit she sees on her facebook feed. The same woman who told me I couldn't believe everything I read on the Internet.

joe40001 posted...

You aren't clarifying though.

You are like "there are crazies so if you share your name/city..." what? If they track you down on facebook, that's on you? If they get you fired that's on you? If they show up at your house that's on you?

If so, when did we get to the point that the people conducting inappropriate behavior were not accountable for their actions?

I think he's just saying "You should take action to protect yourself from these people." It doesn't make it your fault if these people attack you, but it doesn't hurt to be prepared.

Cookie Bag posted...

This is so weird, are you really telling me no one ever told you in your life while growing up not to share personal information or to talk to strangers? is it really such an alien idea to go online and not give any sort of personal information? like i assume you're old enough to know this shit yet you have this delusion that "in the older times" people casually shared information online?

I can't remember a single time in the 90's where people weren't cautious about the information they shared online, this just sounds like poor education and deflecting blame to me.

I think we are talking about different things.

Growing up it's like yeah, don't get your ass abducted by a stranger by talking to them.

And online yes don't get scammed. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about in online communities not being paranoid about personal information. Like just being like "My name's Joe, I live in Boulder, CO" and not thinking it's a big deal (it's not).

Because short of posting your home address, bank information, and SSN nobody operated under the assumption we are all out to track down and harass each other in online communities.

I'm still baffled how people here would be terrified or think it stupid to share a picture of themself. How is that stupid?

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I remember when the most you might know about someone is their real first name, and possibly state/country. That's about it. Then companies that promoted you keeping yourself safe pretty much decided "nah, you're gonna use your real name, and put all your personal life out there." One example I can think of is AIM. They had the screennames, then started wedging real first/last names in because according to them, some users said it was "too hard" and eventually everyone had to go by their real name, but somehow it was hidden if you set it. idk it was a mess and one of the few I can recall swinging hard in the other direction.

I do recall smaller groups knowing more about each other, but that's about it. Nowadays you can simply post a selfie and someone copy pastes or uses something to quickly go through your social media and knows everything about you and then the next thing you know, you're fired for something pretty harmless you said while drunk/tired 8-12 years ago.

Though I do find it amusing when people are bent out of shape over their browsing history or a webcam, when the same people are probably letting roomba map out their house, while giving access to their door locks, thermostat, tv, car, etc to the same network. Can't let them know you looked at boobies, but everything else is ok.

furb posted...

I remember internet culture when it was share nothing about yourself period that could identify you

Pretty much this

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_Rinku_ posted...

I think he's just saying "You should take action to protect yourself from these people." It doesn't make it your fault if these people attack you, but it doesn't hurt to be prepared.

I think the issue is that we are not settling on what are reasonable expectations. Like are we saying "If you share a picture, or your name/city" it is reasonable to expect somebody to track you down IRL and mess with you, your friends, your job, or your life otherwise?

If the answer is "no, not at all, but why risk it?" I kinda understand

If the answer is "yes" then I think that is insane

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joe40001 posted...

If so, when did we get to the point that the people conducting inappropriate behavior were not accountable for their actions?

It's not that they can't be, but the point is that you don't get to that point in the first place. You can place charges for crimes against you, but it's better not to be a victim in the first place.

That, and internet anonymity makes it difficult to trace who did what, and most of your examples aren't even illegal.

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Purple_Cheetah posted...

I do recall smaller groups knowing more about each other, but that's about it. Nowadays you can simply post a selfie and someone copy pastes or uses something to quickly go through your social media and knows everything about you and then the next thing you know, you're fired for something pretty harmless you said while drunk/tired 8-12 years ago.

And my point is, it was clear back then that such a someone was a crazy person who was in the wrong. And in modern times I get a scary sense of "welp you had it coming for posting that picture" and like 0 accountability on the person being crazy.


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EnvoyOfTheLight posted...

It's not that they can't be, but the point is that you don't get to that point in the first place. You can place charges for crimes against you, but it's better not to be a victim in the first place.

That, and internet anonymity makes it difficult to trace who did what, and most of your examples aren't even illegal.

But they are wrong, so we shouldn't defend them

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joe40001 posted...

I'm talking about in online communities not being paranoid about personal information. Like just being like "My name's Joe, I live in Boulder, CO" and not thinking it's a big deal (it's not).

Because people have no awareness and lack the education to realize that doing that shit in random online communities might lead (might, not will) to people with ill intention to attempt shit against you, you don't know who's on the other side of the screen.

Like are you deluded enough to think everyone in these communities are friendly and have no ulterior motives? like 100% sure? also i assume random communities and not specific friend groups and such, because in that case that shouldn't be an issue.

joe40001 posted...

And my point is, it was clear back then that such a someone was a crazy person who was in the wrong. And in modern times I get a scary sense of "welp you had it coming for posting that picture" and like 0 accountability on the person being crazy.

I don't see anyone saying the crazy person has 0 accountability but also try to form a case against a random anonymous person online who you have no information about because surprise they don't share any, but guess who did!~

So yeah this is 100% on the user to keep themselves safe knowing this, and literally fucking NO ONE since the 90's has been like "yeah sharing your info is fine" that's just insane. if anything i wonder if in this day and age they teach kids to cherish their privacy and control the kind of information they give away, too many bad actors online and the internet is massive with barely any safeguards for the user

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Cookie Bag posted...

Because people have no awareness and lack the education to realize that doing that shit in random online communities might lead (might, not will) to people with ill intention to attempt shit against you, you don't know who's on the other side of the screen.

Like are you deluded enough to think everyone in these communities are friendly and have no ulterior motives? like 100% sure? also i assume random communities and not specific friend groups and such, because in that case that shouldn't be an issue.

I'm not saying there might not be shitty people out there, but them being shitty isn't our fault or responsibility.

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joe40001 posted...

I'm not saying there might not be shitty people out there, but them being shitty isn't our fault or responsibility.

But it is your responsibility to keep yourself safe knowing this, yes? do we agree on this or?

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Cookie Bag posted...

I don't see anyone saying the crazy person has 0 accountability but also try to form a case against a random anonymous person online who you have no information about because surprise they don't share any, but guess who did!~

It's insane you seem to be giving them any sort of high ground when they are clearly the one behaving inappropriately in the scenario. Also it's not about "forming a case" but just about right and wrong. Who cares what a crazy person on the internet says? Clearly somebody behaving like that doesn't warrant being listened or catered too. And the whole thing stops there.

So yeah this is 100% on the user to keep themselves safe knowing this, and literally fucking NO ONE since the 90's has been like "yeah sharing your info is fine" that's just insane.

We need to be more specific about info.

Because tons of people share their name, age, approximate location, etc. Are you saying such people are wrong? Or "having it coming" in any way?

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Stop putting words in my mouth, i'm not saying people that put their info online as stupid as that is "have it coming" that's just fucking ridiculous, and you seem to be avoiding the question.

Is it or is it not 100% on the user to keep themselves safe knowing that the internet doesn't really have any measure to safeguard yourself over bad actors using the information you've put online against you.

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Cookie Bag posted...

But it is your responsibility to keep yourself safe knowing this, yes? do we agree on this or?

Safe from what?

I honestly don't think there is anybody here with the will or desire to murder or physically assault me. Or do that to pretty much anybody else here. So idk what we are talking about "safe from".

Describe a scenario where it is my responsibility to keep myself safe from X by not giving my name/location?

What is X?

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joe40001 posted...

Why shouldn't they?

Because people save them. There are people on CE, let alone the rest of the internet, that compile and categorize the personal information that other people post on here.

Maybe you dont care, but most people dont and shouldnt feel comfortable about anonymous weirdos compiling information on them. Even if on CE the threat of your identity be found or being doxxed is low, on the internet as a whole it does happen and rarely does anything good come out of it.

But you know who doesnt get doxxed? The guy who doesnt post shit. Its just not a smart thing to do on a anonymous forum, especially one thats as politically charged as CE. There are plenty of users here that would love to ruin another users life.

LivingLegend posted...

If youre not doing anything wrong then people cant fuck with you really.

how do you think people function in their daily lives with social media? Youre basically putting your entire life on the internet and nobody cares unless you start posting racist or otherwise offensive shit on your timeline.

Given the number of trans, PoC, queer, etc. people online who get this shit when doing nothing but living their lives? Nah, there are evil people that do this shit just to be evil. You don't have to "do something wrong" to "deserve" it.

Cookie Bag posted...

you seem to be avoiding the question.

Is it or is it not 100% on the user to keep themselves safe knowing that the internet doesn't really have any measure to safeguard yourself over bad actors using the information you've put online against you.

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gamer167 posted...

Because people save them. There are people on CE, let alone the rest of the internet, that compile and categorize the personal information that other people post on here.

Maybe you dont care, but most people dont and shouldnt feel comfortable about anonymous weirdos compiling information on them. Even if on CE the threat of your identity be found or being doxxed is low, on the internet as a whole it does happen and rarely does anything good come out of it.

But you know who doesnt get doxxed? The guy who doesnt post shit. Its just not a smart thing to do on a anonymous forum, especially one thats as politically charged as CE. There are plenty of users here that would love to ruin another users life.

I really think we need to disentangle the word "doxxed" because I don't much care if people know my name or location or other personal info, I do care if they do some shitty action based on that. But if they did, we should be clear that that was them in the wrong doing the shitty thing, and we certainly shouldn't treat it like some inevitability.

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@Cookie_Bag

You skipped my question with your self quote.

Safe from what?

Describe the actual scenario and I will be able to tell you if it was 100% "on the user".

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LivingLegend posted...

I dont understand what this sentence is supposed to mean.

are you saying that people are in the closet about their sexuality or... Im lost.

You said that people only fuck with those who are "posting racist or otherwise offensive shit on your timeline."

LivingLegend posted...

I dont understand what this sentence is supposed to mean.

are you saying that people are in the closet about their sexuality or... Im lost.

he's saying that some people online that are extremely anti-lgbt will find a way to ruin your life even though they're not doing anything wrong.

because people are awful like that when there's a shroud of anonymity covering for them and no chance of repercussion

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