Current Events > UK rules that Uber drivers are workers the moment they log in

(+) Yeah! (+)

And also that uber needs to pay a 20% tax on all rides. I legit have trouble seeing how they can continue to operate in the UK if simply logging into the app means you're "on the clock."

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56123668

Uber drivers must be treated as workers rather than self-employed, the UK's Supreme Court has ruled.

The decision could mean thousands of Uber drivers are set to be entitled to minimum wage and holiday pay.

Delivering his judgement, Lord Leggatt said that the Supreme Court unanimously dismissed Uber's appeal that it was an intermediary party and stated that drivers should be considered to be working not only when driving a passenger, but whenever logged in to the app.

Uber also wrote in the filing that if Mr Farrar and Mr Aslam were to win their case, HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) would then classify the firm as a transport provider, and Uber would need to pay VAT on fares.

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Ubers are about to get very expensive in UK

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1. Logs in
2. Rejects all ride offers
3. ???
4. Profit!!!

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I'd hate to be invested in uber right now.

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I'm glad Uber drivers will be paid for the time they spend working.

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AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Ubers are about to get very expensive in UK

to be fair the economy is fucked for gig workers and they should be compensated fairly

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On one hand this is objectively good for business and fair to drivers and taxi companies no longer have an excuse to be salty about

On the other hand this sounds expensive

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Good
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Were_Wyrm posted...

1. Logs in
2. Rejects all ride offers
3. ???
4. Profit!!!

Uber already can penalize drivers who reject too many offers.

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I remember people attacking me for saying that Uber/Lyft drivers are employees. Almost every court that's looked at it agrees that they are, because they absolutely are under current law. Both here and abroad. People simply don't know the law, but think they do.

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Parappa09 posted...

to be fair the economy is fucked for gig workers and they should be paid fairly

Logging in on an app counts as work?

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I imagine there would be a forced timeout on the app, and they would get text notifications that rides are available to pick up, instructing them to log in.

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What's wrong with this? They ARE on the clock from the moment they sign in that they're available. They can't get anything else done in that time because they're essentially on-call. They get penalties for canceling/denying certain rides too

Uber has moved way past the stage of simply being a facilitator who hooks up contractors with customers. Their drivers are employees and should have the benefits associated.

Good.

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also just to make it clear that they're not self employed, rather actual workers without employment rights:

The court considered several elements in its judgement:

• Uber set the fare which meant that they dictated how much drivers could earn
• Uber set the contract terms and drivers had no say in them
• Request for rides is constrained by Uber who can penalise drivers if they reject too many rides
• Uber monitors a driver's service through the star rating and has the capacity to terminate the relationship if after repeated warnings this does not improve

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Absolutely fair.

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AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Logging in on an app counts as work?

No but you knew that wasn't what he meant

The current state of affairs is that you get a "job" to deliver some pizza. It's too far away and the expectation is too high to take a bike, so you drive. It takes you 30 minutes door to door, 10 of that driving, and you get "compensated" 3. This obviously without any pensions, benefits, employment protection etc.

So basically the only people who do this currently are people who hate their cars.

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AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Logging in on an app counts as work?

Logging into the app represents an intent to be available for work and limits opportunities for independent work, so yes. It does. It can be compared to sitting in a break room at the shop, waiting for your next assignment from the boss.

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They should be doing the same with all gig jobs. Look at that shit. This is my doordash time this week. Almost 8 hours total with 6 of those hours sitting in my car waiting for orders that just won't come.

These companies are making billions but are hiring too many drivers making it impossible to make a decent amount of money from it.

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I see the intent of it but how will they enforce it? Will Uber just put a limit to how many hours a person is allowed to work (do they already have something like that)?

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MuayThai85 posted...

They should be doing the same with all gig jobs. Look at that shit. This is my doordash time this week. Almost 8 hours total with 6 of those hours sitting in my car waiting for orders that just won't come.

These companies are making billions but are hiring too many drivers making it impossible to make a decent amount of money from it.

Do you get the full tip or does doordash cut that too?

Antifar posted...

Uber already can penalize drivers who reject too many offers.

From what I've seen its rare for them to do so unless you constantly do it during "peak" hours or events. As more of these ruling come I'm guessing that will change very quickly and there will be a lot of picky drivers getting the axe.

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if they're an employee they shouldn't be rejecting any fares.

Rathinor posted...

Do you get the full tip or does doordash cut that too?

They got busted stealing tips to put towards the normal dash fee. I think now we get everything. Still, I made like $9/hour this week and that's not factoring in gas and stuff.

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For small accountants such as myself this is terrible news

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Does that mean they need to provide benefits to drivers, too? I'm not sure how that works

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No offense, but if it's such a shit gig, why bother doing it?

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CommonGrackle posted...

if they're an employee they shouldn't be rejecting any fares.

They get penalized for rejecting fares though. To the point of getting kicked off the service.

Kind of like disciplinary action at a job, no?

Time for Uber to pull out of the UK

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Were_Wyrm posted...

1. Logs in
2. Rejects all ride offers
3. ???
4. Profit!!!

I mean sure if you want to make like $2 a day for working 10 minutes.

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pogo_rabid posted...

No offense, but if it's such a shit gig, why bother doing it?

Because it wasn't too bad a couple of months ago. We'd average around $19-$20/hour (would do about 12-15 hours/week). But since New Years it has been terrible.

Also, the job market is fucking terrible and my wife is still waiting for her visa (over 8 months now) which has meant she can't work. Need the money or we'd be fucked at the moment.

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Gotcha, thanks for sharing

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I guess Uber UK could just give everyone set schedules they are allowed to work, and have people manage a team of drivers to make sure they are doing their job well enough.

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legendary_zell posted...

I remember people attacking me for saying that Uber/Lyft drivers are employees. Almost every court that's looked at it agrees that they are, because they absolutely are under current law. Both here and abroad. People simply don't know the law, but think they do.

I agree with you. Unfortunately for the drivers, they were able to pull a fast one in California to have state law recognize drivers as contractors instead of employees. Basically the exact opposite of what's happening in the UK.

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