Current Events > How far does your definition of RPG go?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Makeveli_lives posted...

Define level up. Because you also level up in devil may cry and God of War but those are both definitely action games.

You do more than just level up in SotN.

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Bass_X0 posted...

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Its a platform game with RPG elements.

That just begs the question of how many RPG elements a game needs until it becomes a full-fledged RPG
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SotN is a full fledge Action RPG to me. Saying it's a game with RPG elements tells me the RPG aspect of the game is the lesser aspect. Take away SotN's RPG aspects then it wouldn't be nearly as good as it is.

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Dark Souls is a JRPG

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so to me the difference between RPG and metroidvania (because let's be honest, this is where the line gets blurred with dark souls) is how much focus is on vertical progression vs. horizontal. dark souls is straight up currency into stats so it's an RPG; progress is made through mainly stat growth* and not ability unlocks.

*though those stats provide horizontal upgrades in what you can equip and cast. the more impactful vertical upgrade path is through weapon upgrades.

oot is more of a metroidvania in that your progression is definitively more horizontal. you get more you can do. you get weapons that hit harder and you get hearts but that's about it for vertical progression. the focus is on fleshing out a toolkit.

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so if you play a caster in dnd youre not playing an rpg? dnd is only an rpg if youre a fighter or rogue? i really dont get your point

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i know.

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fighters get stronger as they level up, vertical growth. all they do is hit stuff hard and be hard to kill and everytime they level up they learn to hit stuff harder and become harder to kill

mages stay the same weak squishy pussies they are at level 1, but they go from being a weak squishy pussy that gets to summon a glowing arrow once per day to being a weak squishy pussy that can summon earthquakes, lightning, firestorms, genies, devils, tidal waves, every 5 minutes, horizontal growth

you could explain your point rather than being condescending but youre a brony alt account so i guess internet wins is all you have in life

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D:

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Think the most important part of RPGs are quests, and those quests having multiple paths.

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IronChef_Kirby posted...

If I see numbers, it's a RPG

Is Fire Emblem considered an RPG then?

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DepreceV2 posted...

Is Fire Emblem considered an RPG then?

Do you not consider it one? Literally a tactical RPG.

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Conflict posted...

No it's not

JRPG =/= RPG made by Japanese people. It's a WRPG

the term you are thinking of is "Action RPG"

Dark Souls is 100% a JRPG

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Pong is a RPG

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Olive Garden is not Italian food

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NBA Live is an RPG

teepan95 posted...

Iirc, there are no "stats" that influence gameplay. That's my definition of an RPG

OoT, like every TLoZ game has: health upgrades, equipment upgrades, play as protagonist [Link], friend/foe story NPCs, chance** combat enemies, weapon switching/tactics, optional quests, explorable area maps... all of the essential elements of RPGs.

** Certain areas usually have patrolling or gate-keeping enemies. These are unskippable story or map checkpoint encounters.
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IronChef_Kirby posted...

If I see numbers, it's a RPG

So many numbers...

SMB1 is an RPG, confirmed?

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Honestly the weirdest thing about this topic is people not realizing JRPGs were born from Western RPGs like Wizardry and Ultima. And that at the time before the modern Dragon Quest style got popular, action RPGs, such as the Dragon Slayer, Hydline, and Ys games were typically associated with being JRPGs.

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ghostblob posted...

Dark Souls, Monster Hunter and Ocarina of Time are not RPGS. The rest are

That's about where I drew the line as well.
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Conflict posted...

Uh, no? Action gameplay has no bearing on whether or not it's JRPG or WRPG.

Here's a reddit comment that explains it perfectly

Dark Souls is not a JRPG.

This is the typical stuff you see posted by people who have no idea of the history behind either country's RPG developments. If you want to argue that it's a modern distinction sure, but it's extremely artificial and not based on actual history.

Referring to that Reddit comment, not your post.

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IronChef_Kirby posted...

If I see numbers, it's a RPG

Monster Hunter World is an RPG, and Rise will also be an RPG, but previous games in the series are not RPGs.
In addition, there is an option in the settings of both World and Rise which changes the game's genre from RPG to not RPG.
Destiny is now an RPG.
Also, Rhythm games are RPGs according to this dichotomy.

JE19426 posted...

Fallout: New Vegas is defiantly an RPG, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time is defiantly not an RPG. I don't know enough about Dark Souls, or Monster Hunter to say if they are RPGs or not. Based on my knowledge of them, I lean towards yes.

That's definitely not how you spell definitely.

CapnMuffin posted...

Creatable or otherwise customizable characters

I suppose the only Fire Emblem games which are RPGs are Mystery of the Emblem, New Mystery of the Emblem, Awakening, Fates, and Three Houses? Because outside of those, pre-made characters.
Oh, yeah, and this means Xenoblade isn't an RPG, either. Or Radiant Historia. Or Final Fantasy. Or Paper Mario. Or the Mother series. Or-

Anyway, let's throw in a curveball. Puzzlequest is an RPG.

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andri_g posted...

So many numbers...
SMB1 is an RPG, confirmed?

Caroniver posted...

Monster Hunter World is an RPG, and Rise will also be an RPG, but previous games in the series are not RPGs.
In addition, there is an option in the settings of both World and Rise which changes the game's genre from RPG to not RPG.
Destiny is now an RPG.
Also, Rhythm games are RPGs according to this dichotomy.

why are you people like this

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Conflict posted...

OoT is not an RPG. None of the Zelda games are besides Zelda 2.

I understand how some people are led to believe TLoZ games are not RPGs; I don't know why some people choose to cling to that belief.

[ Better sources needed... ]
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Edit:
Choco posted...

why are you people like this

Pardon my sarcasm--SMB1 is *not* an RPG. Crisis averted?

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This generally tends to devolve into very similar arguments. I think the first thing people need to accept is that the RPG genre within video games is something completely different from tabletop RPGs. There are similarities, but they are different things. Videogame RPGs are called such because they historically took inspiration from tabletop games like DnD. From there, though, the genre has kept growing on its own.

And like with any genre, there isn't a very strict definition that's not how genres work. Some people will argue that stats is what makes a game an RPG. Others will argue that it is the degree to which you as a player can determine the fate of the character you play. To me it's essentially just a mix of a lot of such traits. When a game is labeled as RPG I know it could mean a lot of different things depending on who made it.

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scar the 1 posted...

Others will argue that it is the degree to which you as a player can determine the fate of the character you play.

"most RPGs aren't RPGs" is clearly a worse take than others though

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Choco posted...

"most RPGs aren't RPGs" is clearly a worse take than others though

I could see the case if someone is arguing from a "purist" standpoint with tabletop games in mind, but I agree it's not very useful these days since the term RPG has come to mean something a bit broader than, say, Fallout New Vegas.

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If OoT is an RPG then so is Banjo-Tooie lol.

Zelda is an adventure game, except AoL, which is an RPG.

Though Earthbound isnt an RPG because the player plays themself controlling Ness and you cant play a role if youre just yourself

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It's weird that AoL gets this special status as RPG just because it has numbers. It indicates that for a lot of people, "RPG" seems to mean "grindable avatar strength". Because every Zelda game has variable avatar strength. Heck, in Zelda 1 you can double your HP if you grind enough numbers to purchase the blue ring, or if you increase your heart numbers enough to get a new sword. The thing that makes AoL stand out, I guess, is that it's actual numbers instead of represented by hearts, and you can increase the numbers by just doing the same chore over and over.

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scar the 1 posted...

It's weird that AoL gets this special status as RPG just because it has numbers. It indicates that for a lot of people, "RPG" seems to mean "grindable avatar strength". Because every Zelda game has variable avatar strength. Heck, in Zelda 1 you can double your HP if you grind enough numbers to purchase the blue ring, or if you increase your heart numbers enough to get a new sword. The thing that makes AoL stand out, I guess, is that it's actual numbers instead of represented by hearts, and you can increase the numbers by just doing the same chore over and over.

using currency to buy power-ups doesnt make something an RPG lol. if you collect enough music notes in Banjo Kazooie you double your health. >_>

Character growth being internal is usually the dividing line between adventure and rpg.

Adventure games have you collecting specific doodads and tie your progression to exploration.

RPGs usually tie your progression to an experience system. Grinding itself isnt necessary. Its possible to put XP rewards behind quest/task completion rather than solely mob grinding

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AlisLandale posted...

using currency to buy power-ups doesnt make something an RPG lol. if you collect enough music notes in Banjo Kazooie you double your health. >_>

Character growth being internal is usually the dividing line between adventure and rpg.

Adventure games have you collecting specific doodads and tie your progression to exploration.

RPGs usually tie your progression to an experience system. Grinding itself isnt necessary. Its possible to put XP rewards behind quest/task completion rather than solely mob grinding

So... according to this reasoning, it's that the currency is called experience that distinguishes an RPG from an adventure game? And that the transaction is somewhat mandatory, rather than optional?

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Most people consider the SaGa (Final Fantasy Legend) games RPGs and it is very possible to build parties that can only level up through purchasing upgrades or eating meat. There aren't even experience points for the first 2 games or the remake of the third. I really think experience points is a poor hill to die on because even tabletop RPG systems often don't have them.

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ssjevot posted...

Most people consider the SaGa (Final Fantasy Legend) games RPGs and it is very possible to build parties that can only level up through purchasing upgrades or eating meat. There aren't even experience points for the first 2 games or the remake of the third. I really think experience points is a poor hill to die on because even tabletop RPG systems often don't have them.

SaGa is a fun example because apparently, Kawazu (creator) was very inspired by DnD in creating the first game.

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Conflict posted...

But you still gain EXP through combat regardless of what actions you're doing.

No, not in FFL 1 or 2, nor in the remake of 3.

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Conflict posted...

Oh you're talking about regular SaGa, not Romancing SaGa

Does the game have a stat system though? And I mean an ATK/DEF/MAGIC/INT stat system, not just "you equip this armor and you can now take twice as much damage" like people refer to in an attempt to validate Zelda being an RPG.

It does. But let's be clear here - the distinction between a "stat system" as you call it, and Zelda, is essentially that in one case there's numbers, and in the other the numbers don't show up on the screen. Link's life total is still a number, his damage is a number, and enemy health is a number. In some games he can slow/be slowed, so there's another number for speed. The distinction is arbitrary IMO, and more importantly has very little to do with what is supposed to be characteristic of an RPG.

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One big distinction is it has to have stats, like hp and str and def, and gear that helps boost those and/or other stats. And that you level up/get exp.

This harkens back to basic DnD. It's core.

JRPGs have RPG characters that are prerolled and named already with pre formed backstory. But they still level and get gear.

Genres are attempts at categorizing but once made there will always be attempts to break those categories and cross things. Obsessing about thing X fits in genre Y is not necessary.
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Dead Island is a game I could never decide was an RPG or not

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Notti posted...
And that you level up/get exp.

This harkens back to basic DnD. It's core.

Many tabletop and computer role playing games don't have experience or levels. That part is absolutely not core.


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ssjevot posted...

And that you level up/get exp.

Many tabletop and computer role playing games don't have experience or levels. That part is absolutely not core.

Added the levels/exp in after. Was more referring to the stats. Should've made that clearer.
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AlisLandale posted...

If OoT is an RPG

Yes... https://web.archive.org/web/20111118044131/http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=11686

then so is Banjo-Tooie lol.

No... https://web.archive.org/web/20141114112553/http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=19991
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[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

We all see the former. We also see how you reworded what I said to mean something I did not say.

You see the differences but do not focus on what is most relevant. Maybe that is [part of] the answer.

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Notti posted...

Added the levels/exp in after. Was more referring to the stats. Should've made that clearer.

I would argue, for example, that a dating sim is a kind of RPG, and it doesn't necessarily have stats.

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Conflict posted...

GTA is an RPG.

You (player) assume role of CJ in a fictional setting (Los Santos). Player takes responsibility of acting out roles (playing as CJ) through a process of structured decision making (completing missions and tasks). Actions may fail depending on rules (shoot, the person you're shooting might roll out of the way)

Hmm... GTA is an interesting one because there is a debate over whether it carries enough RPG components to be defined as an RPG. Personally I lean into it being a hybrid Action Adventure + RPG game.

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The whole thing about genre is that the more strictly you try to define it, the worse the definition gets

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scar the 1 posted...

The whole thing about genre is that the more strictly you try to define it, the worse the definition gets

this. game genres worked in the past when games were simple. when "rpg" was a useful term to describe a game there was no fucking way something like gta could get made.

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