Current Events > Businesses that can't provide a living wage to employees should not exist

(+) Yeah! (+)

Making others slave away while not being able to afford basic necessities so that you can live your dream life should not be a thing in society.


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And before anyone disagrees, this was literally the entire point of the minimum wage in the first place. Over half a century of propaganda is the only reason people believe that the minimum wage is for students and teenagers and such.

https://www.thebillfold.com/2015/07/it-was-always-supposed-to-be-a-living-wage/
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get this: not only they exist, but they are the vast majority of employers in the us

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Amazon and Walmart agree

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I disagree.
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Duncanwii posted...

I disagree.

Of course you do...

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BilalPowell posted...

Amazon and Walmart agree

tough shit. no one should have to work without a living wage so that a business owner can afford to buy a new sailboat. Its really very simple.

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Businesses have a right to exist.
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whats your job duncan

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Duncanwii posted...

Businesses have a right to exist.

Who is the duty bearer for this right?

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if you changed this to businesses that cant afford to stock their product/provide their service dont deserve to exist literally no one would disagree. Giving your employees a living wage is a fundamental operation expense, if you cant meet it your business has failed.

Duncanwii posted...

Businesses have a right to exist.

your parents dont know what theyre talking about please stop

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Duncanwii posted...

Businesses have a right to exist.

Not if they exist at the behest of human suffering. In other words, human beings have a greater right to exist than businesses. An immeasurably greater right, Id argue.

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If a business cant afford to give 50 workers a "living wage" they'll just fire 10 and give 40 workers a "living wage" instead.

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Shablagoo posted...

Not if they exist at the behest of human suffering. In other words, human beings have a greater right to exist than businesses. An immeasurably greater right, Id argue.

And where are these people supposed to get their wages when all the businesses are driven under?
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Duncanwii posted...

Shablagoo posted...

Not if they exist at the behest of human suffering. In other words, human beings have a greater right to exist than businesses. An immeasurably greater right, Id argue.

And where are these people supposed to get their wages when all the businesses are driven under?

Walmart and Amazon. That's why big businesses love the politicians who want to raise minimum wage. Kills their competition.

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Duncan you are not equipped to contribute to this conversation. I'm saying that in the nicest way possible

Kids in school do not need a living wage when they do not have living expenses. And it just so happens a couple million jobs exist which require little to no skill that you very quickly get promoted out of. If you hit your 30s and all you can do is min wage, social programs exist to help you over the hump since you incapable of doing better and why the programs exist or unwilling and the side effect of social programs.

The federal minimum wage is way overdue and I would tie the minimum wage as a multiple of senators salaries to avoid future problems. There are other much bigger worker rights issues beyond minimum wage. The fact that we tie healthcare to employment. Lack of pto. Lack of paid family leave. At will states. And to a lesser degree exempt employee status.

A lot of shit was different in the 1930s, very little of it do I want back. It's a broken argument to bring it up as though it means anything of value.

ultimate reaver posted...

get this: not only they exist, but they are the vast majority of employers in the us

Strange how the vast majority makes up 1.5% of employees and half of them under 22.

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HypnospaceInlaw posted...

Duncan you are not equipped to contribute to this conversation. I'm saying that in the nicest way possible

I dont think you are equipped to tell me what I am and am not equipped for. And I'm saying THAT in the nicest way possible.
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Duncanwii posted...

I dont think you are equipped to tell me what I am and am not equipped for. And I'm saying THAT in the nicest way possible.

Duncan, youve never had a job before. You dont have any living expenses outside of video games. You are not equipped to talk about economics and worker rights.

With all due respect, youre out of your depth here

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ultimate reaver posted...

get this: not only they exist, but they are the vast majority of employers in the us

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A living wage is more like 21-22 bucks an hour, excluding places like NYC etc. Thats bare minimum. You aint doing shit else with that money besides paying bills and getting food. And fact is that most college grads now are underemployed by technicality since they dont have actual sellable workplace skills from college. Which is why this is a conversation now. $15 an hour still wont do jack shit for you, even in flyover country. Get into a trade and work up the ladder.

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It's also true that many business can't pay their workers either

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masticatingman posted...

A living wage is more like 21-22 bucks an hour, excluding places like NYC etc. Thats bare minimum. You aint doing shit else with that money besides paying bills and getting food. And fact is that most college grads now are underemployed by technicality since they dont have actual sellable workplace skills from college. Which is why this is a conversation now. $15 an hour still wont do jack shit for you, even in flyover country. Get into a trade and work up the ladder.

Where do you live? I could live kingly for $22/hr

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I agree
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There are places with $400/month rent where $22/hr would be plenty.

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BilalPowell posted...

There are places with $400/month rent where $22/hr would be plenty.

I used to work at mcdonalds

I got a 10-15 cent raise every year.

My pay did NOT scale when minimum wage went up.

I started out $1.75 ahead of minimum wage.

I left $0.85 cents above it after 11 years.

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Tactical_Spork posted...

Giving your employees a living wage is a fundamental operation expense, if you cant meet it your business has failed.

Wat?

No. Employees receiving a living wage might be ideal, but its hardly a fundamental operation expense. Im not even sure how you came up with, as business has nothing inherent to do with quality of life or anything related. Businesses are based on transactions between a buyer and a seller. Thats it. Anything else you add to it could be fine, if agreed upon by those parties though.

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Unskilled labor is not a career. If you want a real wage, you have to get a real job. A job at McDonald's won't support an adult's living expenses because it's a job meant for a teenager living at home. It takes an adult job to pull an adult wage. I work with kids in their early 20s who own homes and have wives and kids because our profession makes money. And this is in New Jersey, where the cost of living is sky high. If all you're willing to do is punch the cash register at the grocery store, you don't get to complain that you can't live on your own on that wage.

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The common argument is mom and pop shops cant stay afloat at $15...how many employees do most mom and pop shops even have? If $15 is too much to be able to pay the already limited staff they have there are bigger issues with the business already.

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r4X0r posted...

Unskilled labor is not a career. If you want a real wage, you have to get a real job. A job at McDonald's won't support an adult's living expenses because it's a job meant for a teenager living at home. It takes an adult job to pull an adult wage. I work with kids in their early 20s who own homes and have wives and kids because our profession makes money. And this is in New Jersey, where the cost of living is sky high. If all you're willing to do is punch the cash register at the grocery store, you don't get to complain that you can't live on your own on that wage.

Back then you could get a college education with a part time job.

Why is it now that you cannot get one if you work THREE jobs.

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MI4 REAL posted...

Back then you could get a college education with a part time job.

Why is it now that you cannot get one if you work THREE jobs.

Back when? I'm talking about today.

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The solution is forcing these people to buy essentials first.

It's cute how we saw so many businesses close down due to covid because they didn't have money to cover expenses for a few months and people still want to act like most of the businesses on the street are run by people making obscene wealth, not just getting by as much as the rest of us.

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AtelierRyza2462 posted...

The solution is forcing these people to buy essentials first.

You don't get it.

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lightwarrior78 posted...

It's cute how we saw so many businesses close down due to covid because they didn't have money to cover expenses for a few months and people still want to act like most of the businesses on the street are run by people making obscene wealth, not just getting by as much as the rest of us.

A subway franchise REMODELED during the 7 week covid shutdown.

I couldn't remodel that in a year.

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Sure, giants like Walmart should pay their employees a liveable wage. But what about a small mom and pop store? The owners are probably barely making more than the lease payments for the store.

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lightwarrior78 posted...

It's cute how we saw so many businesses close down due to covid because they didn't have money to cover expenses for a few months and people still want to act like most of the businesses on the street are run by people making obscene wealth, not just getting by as much as the rest of us.

Bad comparison. Those businesses had to close completely so no income was coming in. Raising the wage wont stop their income. Just lower it. Again, if that is too much for them to overcome they need to reevaluate the business as a whole.

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MI4 REAL posted...

A subway franchise REMODELED during the 7 week covid shutdown.

I couldn't remodel that in a year.

A business decided to shut down and do work on their facility at a time when they couldn't open for business anyway?

That's it, capitalism doesn't work!

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lightwarrior78 posted...

It's cute how we saw so many businesses close down due to covid because they didn't have money to cover expenses for a few months and people still want to act like most of the businesses on the street are run by people making obscene wealth, not just getting by as much as the rest of us.

You mean the owners of the pizza places arent all just cheap billionaires?

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r4X0r posted...

Back when? I'm talking about today.

You're missing the point.

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MI4 REAL posted...

You don't get it.

Don't get what?

MI4 REAL posted...

You're missing the point.

Make one, then.

If you want a real salary, you have to get a real job. Unskilled work is for kids, not for paying bills. That's my point. Yours?

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Orlando_Jordan posted...

Sure, giants like Walmart should pay their employees a liveable wage. But what about a small mom and pop store? The owners are probably barely making more than the lease payments for the store.

Somehow a $443B a year company somehow can't pay their employees jack shit.


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PrideOfLion posted...

People only eat McDonald's on weekends and after school lets out?

19 year olds are still in school?

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r4X0r posted...

Make one, then.

If you want a real salary, you have to get a real job. Unskilled work is for kids, not for paying bills. That's my point. Yours?

Just how much do you make an hour?

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MI4 REAL posted...

Just how much do you make an hour?

$18/hr for driving and shop work, $92/hr for field work. You?

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r4X0r posted...

A business decided to shut down and do work on their facility at a time when they couldn't open for business anyway?

That's it, capitalism doesn't work!

I couldn't remodel anything because the lumber yard were out of wood from everyone else renovating and doing home projects


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MI4 REAL posted...

Somehow a $443B a year company somehow can't pay their employees jack shit.

What does that have to do with my post? A small mom and pop store isn't a $443B a year company.

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