Current Events > Just finished the Doctor Who season 12. Lol, this shit sucked *Spoilers*.

(+) Yeah! (+)

So... The Doctor is some "timeless" motherfucker that has WAY more than 12 lives. The power of regeneration was something only he/she had and was extracted from him/her and used by the Time Lord race to create the Time Lords. The Doctor apparently came here from some other dimension or universe and arrived as a little girl.

They even had a different female Doctor show up that's from before William Hartnell's Doctor. Hartnell was supposed to be the first Doctor. Now he's just one of who knows how many. He had his mind was wiped of all memories before Hartnell's Doctor. In a flashback sequence, they show The Doctor regenerate like 15 times alone. He seems to have unlimited regenerations, so The Time of the Doctor seems pointless in retrospect.

I liked it when The Doctor was just a regular Time Lord that left to travel time and space. Turns out he's some special anomoly from another universe that the Time Lords exploited to harness the power of regeneration and became what they are. And then they further used him as some secret Time Lord agent before wiping his mind and then hunted him down when he tried to leave.

I feel like The Master was basically supposed to be the audience, since he destroyed Gallifrey and all the Time Lords when he found out this truth himself.

This Chinball motherfucker sucks.

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yeah it's a much better story when the doctor is a regular time lord who looked at all the shit the time lords were doing and just basically said "y'all are stupid idiots i'm going to go make the galaxy a better place"

the better doctor who stories aren't really about the doctor personally, but about how one person in the right place at the right time can affect huge change

i kinda want them to twist it again and have the master be the timeless child, which would explain why he's so messed up in the head

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The doctor was always implied to be way older than he seems and possibly a time lord founder
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KnightofShikari posted...

yeah it's a much better story when the doctor is a regular time lord who looked at all the shit the time lords were doing and just basically said "y'all are stupid idiots i'm going to go make the galaxy a better place"

the better doctor who stories aren't really about the doctor personally, but about how one person in the right place at the right time can affect huge change

i kinda want them to twist it again and have the master be the timeless child, which would explain why he's so messed up in the head

Exactly what I was thinking especially in terms of the Master. He finds out he was the child and was exploited and destroys them as revenge. Explains a lot about him as well.

Instead, he basically committed genocide because he found out a little part of the Doctor is in him. While that fits his insanity, it felt pointless.

That entire storyline felt pointless. They're obviously setting up The Doctor finding out his actual homeworld, but I feel a race that has mastery over time and space was more than enough.


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Kafkaf posted...

The doctor was always implied to be way older than he seems and possibly a time lord founder

I tried digging up on his age when The Time of the Doctor first came out and while there's the whole "The Doctor lies" bit with trusting him, he was pretty transparent about his age in the new Who up till "a few thousand years old" in Series 12. That seems pretty consistent till this episode since The Doctor himself didn't know about anything before that.

I don't think anyone else has spoken on his age in any matter of fact way.

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The best thing they can do is just get rid of Whitaker and Chibnall and just pretend the last few years never happened. Go back to a white guy, since that's what the character is, and keep it to one or two companions so there can be actual character development.

And I know its a British show, but they seriously need to stop having England take the lead during alien invasions. No country on earth is going to cede power and control to England if aliens invade. Certainly not America, China, and Russia. Not to mention aliens aren't going to give a fuck about some tiny island if they try taking over the world.

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Gamerguymass posted...

The best thing they can do is just get rid of Whitaker and Chibnall and just pretend the last few years never happened. Go back to a white guy, since that's what the character is, and keep it to one or two companions so there can be actual character development.

And I know its a British show, but they seriously need to stop having England take the lead during alien invasions. No country on earth is going to cede power and control to England if aliens invade. Certainly not America, China, and Russia. Not to mention aliens aren't going to give a fuck about some tiny island if they try taking over the world.

Tbh, the female Doctor was the least of the issues. Also, I don't think a white male is required and I doubt we'll get an actual white male Doctor for a long time. Next will probably be a black guy.

Plus, The Master as an Indian guy was pretty damn good. Reminded me of Simm's Master so much, but even then, I REALLY liked the older Missy. Also I would have really liked to see more of the Ruth Doctor, since she was pretty badass, though her mystery was destroyed with that last episode.

I think a bigger problem is that I wanted someone old, near Capaldi's age. Male, female, black, white. Doesn't really matter. I felt Capaldi's age complimented an older Doctor, especially after the events of the Time of the Doctor, very nicely.

Instead it went back to someone around Tennant/Smith's age.

Also lmao at the thing about the British alien invasions. Exactly what I'm always thinking. Like, the US wouldn't let them take the lead like they always do lol.

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Yeah, it took me a bit to process all that when I saw it a few months ago. It was bad and pointless.

Worse than Luke in the ST.

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Gamerguymass posted...

The best thing they can do is just get rid of Whitaker and Chibnall and just pretend the last few years never happened. Go back to a white guy, since that's what the character is, and keep it to one or two companions so there can be actual character development.

And I know its a British show, but they seriously need to stop having England take the lead during alien invasions. No country on earth is going to cede power and control to England if aliens invade. Certainly not America, China, and Russia. Not to mention aliens aren't going to give a fuck about some tiny island if they try taking over the world.

Needing the Doctor to be a white guy is a garbage take. The problem is clearly the writing and story ideas which are pure garbage. As for the alien invasions happening mostly in the UK, that makes sense since it is a UK show and that's the easiest place for them to film stuff.

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Gamerguymass posted...

The best thing they can do is just get rid of Whitaker and Chibnall and just pretend the last few years never happened. Go back to a white guy, since that's what the character is, and keep it to one or two companions so there can be actual character development.

And I know its a British show, but they seriously need to stop having England take the lead during alien invasions. No country on earth is going to cede power and control to England if aliens invade. Certainly not America, China, and Russia. Not to mention aliens aren't going to give a fuck about some tiny island if they try taking over the world.

Strong username to post ratio lol

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Keep Whittaker. dump Chibbers. At least give her a chance with a competent showrunner.

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YellowSUV posted...

Needing the Doctor to be a white guy is a garbage take. The problem is clearly the writing and story ideas which are pure garbage. As for the alien invasions happening mostly in the UK, that makes sense since it is a UK show and that's the easiest place for them to film stuff.

Not really. For starters it was already established the character is a white guy by having every previous 12 Doctors be a white guy. Furthermore in the last season for Capaldi, that they tried to sabotage for him by setting up the whole female Doctor thing in the first place, they set the precedent themselves. When that head security guy switched from a white guy to a black woman she goes "back to normal." This means having a fixed skin color and gender is normal for them and changing to anything else is an abnormal occurrence.

The Timeless Child shit was just that. Shit. The majority of the fanbase has absolutely hated it. If they continue down that route just to continue to be woke, since that's the only reason it was done for Chibnall to use that excuse of the Doctor can be any color/gender, then the ratings will continue to decline more and more. I mean ffs, they are god damn time travelers, they can make another Time-Lord character who is a different race that the Doctor encounters somewhere in the universe.

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Lol the BS.

Can completely believe that an Alien can completely change there appearance and body type upon death but not gender or skin colour? Also fun fact the 5th Doctor was almost a woman.

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Meh it wasn't good but I don't mind them retconning things once more, it's all par for the course these days and Who-lore is a shit show on the same level as DC and Marvel.

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DoctorVader posted...

Yeah, it took me a bit to process all that when I saw it a few months ago. It was bad and pointless.

Worse than Luke in the ST.

Luke made sense at least. This was pulled out of someone's ass. Looking around, pretty much everybody hated it. I don't know what they were thinking greenlighting this idea.

YellowSUV posted...

Needing the Doctor to be a white guy is a garbage take. The problem is clearly the writing and story ideas which are pure garbage. As for the alien invasions happening mostly in the UK, that makes sense since it is a UK show and that's the easiest place for them to film stuff.

Medussa posted...

Keep Whittaker. dump Chibbers. At least give her a chance with a competent showrunner.

Yeah, Chinball is definitely the problem. While I'm not too happy with Whittaker, she's pretty good.

Gamerguymass posted...

Not really. For starters it was already established the character is a white guy by having every previous 12 Doctors be a white guy. Furthermore in the last season for Capaldi, that they tried to sabotage for him by setting up the whole female Doctor thing in the first place, they set the precedent themselves. When that head security guy switched from a white guy to a black woman she goes "back to normal." This means having a fixed skin color and gender is normal for them and changing to anything else is an abnormal occurrence.

The Timeless Child shit was just that. Shit. The majority of the fanbase has absolutely hated it. If they continue down that route just to continue to be woke, since that's the only reason it was done for Chibnall to use that excuse of the Doctor can be any color/gender, then the ratings will continue to decline more and more. I mean ffs, they are god damn time travelers, they can make another Time-Lord character who is a different race that the Doctor encounters somewhere in the universe.

I do understand the sentiment that a lot of changes are pretty unnecessary. Also I do feel it's a little weird they went from a white male to a white female. I really think they should have kept him male, but black first.

spikethedevil posted...

Lol the BS.

Can completely believe that an Alien can completely change there appearance and body type upon death but not gender or skin colour? Also fun fact the 5th Doctor was almost a woman.

I just learned today that Professor Moon from the Vashta Narada library 2 parter was supposed to be a future Doctor and the first black Doctor. That is what Moffat fully intended, but they decided not to go with it.

Seitar posted...

Meh it wasn't good but I don't mind them retconning things once more, it's all par for the course these days and Who-lore is a shit show on the same level as DC and Marvel.

Ehh, it's definitely not on Marvel/DC levels tbh. And again, it's a completely pointless change and would have just worked better with the Master.

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That sounds fucking terrible. Makes me glad I stopped watching during the Matt Smith run.

Kafkaf posted...

The doctor was always implied to be way older than he seems and possibly a time lord founder

Always? In the TV show it happened like twice in the McCoy era and almost never elsewhere.
In the books people went a little overboard, but the revival quelled most of that.

archedsoul posted...

I tried digging up on his age when The Time of the Doctor first came out and while there's the whole "The Doctor lies" bit with trusting him, he was pretty transparent about his age in the new Who up till "a few thousand years old" in Series 12. That seems pretty consistent till this episode since The Doctor himself didn't know about anything before that.

There were a lot of age mentions in New Who. Shame that the first one we get is 900, which directly contradicts the 953 given in Time and the Rani.

Esrac posted...

That sounds fucking terrible. Makes me glad I stopped watching during the Matt Smith run.

At the very least watch Capaldi's run and treat World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls/Twice Upon a Time as a finale to the show.

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archedsoul posted...

Ehh, it's definitely not on Marvel/DC levels tbh. And again, it's a completely pointless change and would have just worked better with the Master.

I mean the Moffat and Chibnall have been full of pointless changes so it's not like it's a new thing. Stuff like the War Doctor is on the same level of convolution as the Marvel arc where Captain America is a hydra spy.

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I still like this plot thread better than the Doctor's name being a universe-endig superweapon, the Doctor rebooting the universe, The Doctor spending every third episode asserting that he's the Doctor and he eats monsters of the week for breakfast, and the Doctor throwing regeneration energy around every third episode.

Current Who isn't prime Who, but the issues that everyone's fucked up about tend to start with Moffat. If you want to bemoan the fact that The Doctor's too important in the greater scheme of the mythos or whatever, remember the time that they literally rebooted the fucking universe, and when their name was a secret so deviously kept because it could have led to total existential genocide.

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Coughbrainofmorbiuscough. Also if the 7th Doctors era wasnt cut short they would have basically done a timeless child thing.

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fact: people only watch dr who to flex how much of a 'le nerd' they are lol

Caroniver posted...

There were a lot of age mentions in New Who. Shame that the first one we get is 900, which directly contradicts the 953 given in Time and the Rani.

A 53 year discrepancy is not that bad tbh. The last time they confirmed his age in the new ones was Capaldi's first episode where he said he was 2100 coming off the 900 years on Trenzalore. In the start of Series 12, it becomes an ambiguous "I'm thousands of years old".

Seitar posted...

I mean the Moffat and Chibnall have been full of pointless changes so it's not like it's a new thing. Stuff like the War Doctor is on the same level of convolution as the Marvel arc where Captain America is a hydra spy.

MrMallard posted...

I still like this plot thread better than the Doctor's name being a universe-endig superweapon, the Doctor rebooting the universe, The Doctor spending every third episode asserting that he's the Doctor and he eats monsters of the week for breakfast, and the Doctor throwing regeneration energy around every third episode.

Current Who isn't prime Who, but the issues that everyone's fucked up about tend to start with Moffat. If you want to bemoan the fact that The Doctor's too important in the greater scheme of the mythos or whatever, remember the time that they literally rebooted the fucking universe, and when their name was a secret so deviously kept because it could have led to total existential genocide.

Those are all minor "monster of the season" shockers and didn't actually change the history. Also, the concept of the War Doctor was pretty stupid tbf. Moffat wasn't that much better than Chinball, but he didn't go too overboard and it felt like dumb fun.

Also a lot of that just didn't happen.

spikethedevil posted...

Coughbrainofmorbiuscough. Also if the 7th Doctors era wasnt cut short they would have basically done a timeless child thing.

The Doctor being The Other and coming from the future and becoming one of the 3 founders of Gallifrey is way different than some lady exploring around and finding a little girl, adopting her, and then experimenting on her for at least 15 regenerations to steal her powers for her people, and then turning the child into a secret time agent that meddles in history exactly like the Time Lords, then wiping her mind.

Also the Morbius Doctors were pretty much immediately retconned that year with the 13 lives limit. Even 50 years ago, they thought it was a dumb direction to move in.

Also the Cartmel Masterplan was something that was thought up when Doctor Who was dying back then.

Series 12 has had the lowest ratings and viewership of any New Who season and hasn't been as low as it was since back when it first started failing with the 7th Doctor. It wouldn't have saved it then, and it seems like it's killed it now just as bad as back then.


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Though season 10 had lowest ratings? Though if may be second lowest. Either way Revolution of the Daleks was the most watched show on UK TV on New Years Day.

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Lmao, season 11 and 12 were garbage as fuck. Jodie feels nothing like the Doctor.

And what happened to the music? It's non-existent. Read someone describe it as elevator music and I couldn't stop laughing.

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InfinityMonster posted...

Lmao, season 11 and 12 were garbage as fuck. Jodie feels nothing like the Doctor.

That's where I disagree.

I'll admit that this isn't the best era of modern Doctor Who. I at least appreciate what it's trying to return to, but for every Demons of the Punjab or Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror, there's an Arachnids in the UK or an Orphan 55. I also thought that the TARDIS was overstaffed, and the scripts didn't know how to write four characters without at least one of them being neglected every time. Despite enjoying the show a degree more than when Moffat's DNA was blasted all over it, I can ultimately accept that the last two seasons - while ambitious imo - are flawed.

But Jodie Whittaker's performance as The Doctor is the show's biggest saving grace. After edgy manchild (who ended up being okay in the end) and the inconsistent mess that Capaldi's Doctor was (which was unfortunate, because I wanted to like him more than Matt Smith), Jodie has been a return to the bouncy, adventurous sort of Doctor of the Russell T. Davies run.

My biggest gripe is that she doesn't have the best material to work with, like in Arachnids in the UK where she staunches the Donald Trump expy for going to shoot a giant spider to death, despite the spider suffocating under its own weight otherwise. And it's not just her being mistaken, the show takes her side as the more morally righteous choice. I think the inflated TARDIS cast is a factor in how stretched some of these episodes felt, but a lot of the material is just kind of mediocre with Jodie Whittaker trying to hold everything together through sheer force of personality.

I think she's an excellent Doctor. The show has just been hamstrung by a series of creative decisions that writers and directors have trouble actualising, resulting in episodes where at least one of the core characters are underbaked every time. If those scripts aren't just SyFy TV Movie of the Day-tier scripts in the first place, looking at you Orphan 55. Jodie Whittaker is a consistent delight imo, trying her best to work with what's given to her.

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MrMallard posted...

I think she's an excellent Doctor. The show has just been hamstrung by a series of creative decisions that writers and directors have trouble actualising, resulting in episodes where at least one of the core characters are underbaked every time.

This. Doctor Who's primary problem right now is shitty writing and an unwillingness to commit to ideas. Jodi is great. They just need to spend more time on their storylines.

Like the New Years Special was actually great, because they actually spent time developing the ideas.

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Gamerguymass posted...

The best thing they can do is just get rid of Whitaker and Chibnall and just pretend the last few years never happened. Go back to a white guy, since that's what the character is, and keep it to one or two companions so there can be actual character development.

And I know its a British show, but they seriously need to stop having England take the lead during alien invasions. No country on earth is going to cede power and control to England if aliens invade. Certainly not America, China, and Russia. Not to mention aliens aren't going to give a fuck about some tiny island if they try taking over the world.

Oi

I don't know if Jodi is good or not as the Doctor because Chib is such trash. They should of got new blood for a showrunner instead of handing it to him. Moffat was bad with his screwing up the end of the Time War, but this timeless child thing is so stupid. Doctor was better just being a insane time lord with a magical box. Heroes are best with limits/failures to over come. Moffat started pealing those limits away and Chib took it to the next level in badness.

I cant remember the last season I watched. It was one of the seasons with Matt smith as the doctor. I heard it degrades and parts of it pander to sjws or something but the shit in the OP sounds legit trash

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spikethedevil posted...

Though season 10 had lowest ratings? Though if may be second lowest. Either way Revolution of the Daleks was the most watched show on UK TV on New Years Day.

Nah, Series 12 is the lowest, both with per episode average ratings and viewership. Orphan 55 was a record low with New Who viewership, and then the Tesla episode broke that and then each episode after that broke the last or got close.

And Revolution of the Daleks is the lowest watched special ever. It's just that Doctor Who is such a big thing on Christmas/NY that it still beat everything else on BBC.

InfinityMonster posted...

Lmao, season 11 and 12 were garbage as fuck. Jodie feels nothing like the Doctor.

And what happened to the music? It's non-existent. Read someone describe it as elevator music and I couldn't stop laughing.

Now that you mention it, she has no "theme". 10 had like 2, and 11 and 12 did as well. Like that hyped music that gets you pumped for the Doctor. Definitely missing.

COVxy posted...

This. Doctor Who's primary problem right now is shitty writing and an unwillingness to commit to ideas. Jodi is great. They just need to spend more time on their storylines.

Like the New Years Special was actually great, because they actually spent time developing the ideas.

Lol, Revolution of the Daleks was as bad, if not worst, than the rest of the season. What are you smoking?

The Judoon just pop the fuck up inside the TARDIS with no explanation, arrest her and 5 minutes into the special, she's already been in prison for decades and Jack comes out of nowhere and saves her. Except sbe arrives home late, so the companions are pissed at her, despite her being in prison for the past few decades.

Cue in the Trump character from that horrible spider episode. He's got a solution for the police brutality riots. Dalek drones that spray water!!!!

Except the medieval Dalek from last year's special has returned like he's Super Cell and he's cloned a whole army, which take over the drones in 5 minutes.

How do we solve such an insane problem? Lets call the REAL Daleks, who come thru and wipe the drone Daleks out and then follow the Doctor into a fake TARDIS to be thrown in the void again.

Problem solved. BUT, Ryan is still kind of mad and leaves the show. Likewise, Graham follows. They decide in the end that they'll go around investigating aliens.

Shit was weak af.

Abiz_ posted...

I don't know if Jodi is good or not as the Doctor because Chib is such trash. They should of got new blood for a showrunner instead of handing it to him. Moffat was bad with his screwing up the end of the Time War, but this timeless child thing is so stupid. Doctor was better just being a insane time lord with a magical box. Heroes are best with limits/failures to over come. Moffat started pealing those limits away and Chib took it to the next level in badness.

Yeah, Moffat definitely had a lot of problems himself.

Rika_Furude posted...

I cant remember the last season I watched. It was one of the seasons with Matt smith as the doctor. I heard it degrades and parts of it pander to sjws or something but the shit in the OP sounds legit trash

I wouldn't call it pandering, just a bit too preachy and cringy. That's not even a big problem. As said, it's the trash stories.

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archedsoul posted...

just a bit too preachy and cringy

even preachy can be tolerable. Chibnall just has all the subtlety of a brick to the face.

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MrMallard posted...

That's where I disagree.

I'll admit that this isn't the best era of modern Doctor Who. I at least appreciate what it's trying to return to, but for every Demons of the Punjab or Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror, there's an Arachnids in the UK or an Orphan 55. I also thought that the TARDIS was overstaffed, and the scripts didn't know how to write four characters without at least one of them being neglected every time. Despite enjoying the show a degree more than when Moffat's DNA was blasted all over it, I can ultimately accept that the last two seasons - while ambitious imo - are flawed.

But Jodie Whittaker's performance as The Doctor is the show's biggest saving grace. After edgy manchild (who ended up being okay in the end) and the inconsistent mess that Capaldi's Doctor was (which was unfortunate, because I wanted to like him more than Matt Smith), Jodie has been a return to the bouncy, adventurous sort of Doctor of the Russell T. Davies run.

My biggest gripe is that she doesn't have the best material to work with, like in Arachnids in the UK where she staunches the Donald Trump expy for going to shoot a giant spider to death, despite the spider suffocating under its own weight otherwise. And it's not just her being mistaken, the show takes her side as the more morally righteous choice. I think the inflated TARDIS cast is a factor in how stretched some of these episodes felt, but a lot of the material is just kind of mediocre with Jodie Whittaker trying to hold everything together through sheer force of personality.

I think she's an excellent Doctor. The show has just been hamstrung by a series of creative decisions that writers and directors have trouble actualising, resulting in episodes where at least one of the core characters are underbaked every time. If those scripts aren't just SyFy TV Movie of the Day-tier scripts in the first place, looking at you Orphan 55. Jodie Whittaker is a consistent delight imo, trying her best to work with what's given to her.

Bad writing has little to do with her acting presence. Both can be bad. She tries too hard to be a mix between Tennant and Smith. Season 13 is only 8 episodes and she's gone after that. I'll still miss her, but she was a bad Doctor.

The Fugitive Doctor felt way more like the Doctor. When the twist was revealed and she started introducing herself, I just knew it was an actual incarnation of the Doctor.

Whoopi Goldberg said she is dying to be the next Doctor after finding out Jodie is leaving and she's already hitting up BBC. I would be totally down for that, but I doubt it would happen, especially since she's American. I could definitely see her show up as one of the billions of regenerations.

Anyway, this was basically a failed experiment. There was no real need for a female Doctor when non-white males exist and the show already had a huge female fanbase that watches more to crush on the Doctor than anything else.

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InfinityMonster posted...

Whoopi Goldberg said she is dying to be the next Doctor

Fuck that could be good. Whoopi is a great actress.