Board 8 > Nintendo just quietly delisted a ton of DSiWare

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://comicbook.com/gaming/amp/news/nintendo-removes-shantae-other-games-from-the-eshop/

Physical > digital, people.

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RIP Shantae

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Do any of those games even exist in physical state?

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Shantae does, most of the rest, no.

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rip photo dojo

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Shantae also does not have a physical version on DS/3DS.

However, this isnt a physical vs. digital issue, its a good digital maintenance issue, which you shouldnt expect from console makers who need to push their new hardware and thus leave the old hardware (and their digital storefronts) behind. Hopefully with backwards compatibility becoming the norm this will change. Only Xbox are fully committed to aiming to have the entire library available though.

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Underleveled posted...

Physical > digital, people.

This is an odd takeaway

How many physical stores are still selling DS games?
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Lightning Strikes posted...

However, this isnt a physical vs. digital issue, its a good digital maintenance issue, which you shouldnt expect from console makers who need to push their new hardware and thus leave the old hardware (and their digital storefronts) behind. Hopefully with backwards compatibility becoming the norm this will change. Only Xbox are fully committed to aiming to have the entire library available though.

I feel like this is splitting hairs when the criticism is that priority changes based on profit motive and the company's whims. Nintendo used to have good digital management with the Wii/U VC, until they didn't. Any company at any point can decide BC or digital archives it isn't worth it. Even for Microsoft, I assume their interest in backwards compatibility and digital is due to Game Pass and if that shuts down I wouldn't expect them to prioritize it.

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Lightning Strikes posted...

However, this isnt a physical vs. digital issue, its a good digital maintenance issue, which you shouldnt expect from console makers who need to push their new hardware and thus leave the old hardware (and their digital storefronts) behind.

But that absolutely makes it a "digital vs physical" issue. This is done with physical media all the time in the form of going OOP. The difference is that you can still get any game in the library of an older console. You may have to pay up the wazoo, and might have to get a new save battery for it, but you can get it. Many/most of these DSiWare games are now lost to potential new players forever. Sure they were probably mostly shovelware crap but the hidden gems are gone for good too.

And you can say all you want that it's on Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft to maintain their digital archives but at a certain point it probably becomes not worth it to them. Yeah Nintendo is purging them crazy early but if you really think most of the PS3/360 digital libraries will still be available in 2035 (the equivalent of buying a SNES cartridge today) you're probably in for a rude awakening.

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Underleveled posted...

But that absolutely makes it a "digital vs physical" issue. This is done with physical media all the time in the form of going OOP. The difference is that you can still get any game in the library of an older console. You may have to pay up the wazoo, and might have to get a new save battery for it, but you can get it. Many/most of these DSiWare games are now lost to potential new players forever. Sure they were probably mostly shovelware crap but the hidden gems are gone for good too.

I can guarantee you it is easier to still get those digital games than it is to pay out the wazoo and buy a new save battery for a physical copy.

Also, physical copies are finite. If a game is rarer, is a "new player" really going to pay thousands of dollars for a game that probably takes 2 hours to beat?

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Digital is king, but largely thanks to community stewardship. You shouldn't expect any corporation to prioritize preservation over money. The same thing applies to physical games, though in that case "community stewardship" is a used games market that also ultimately ends up just being a money grab for the rare stuff.

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Jakyl25 posted...

This is an odd takeaway

How many physical stores are still selling DS games?

I've also lost a handful of physical games. More than digital games.

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HashtagSEP posted...

I can guarantee you it is easier to still get those digital games than it is to pay out the wazoo and buy a new save battery for a physical copy.

Most people don't like engaging in illegal activities.

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Underleveled posted...

But that absolutely makes it a "digital vs physical" issue. This is done with physical media all the time in the form of going OOP. The difference is that you can still get any game in the library of an older console. You may have to pay up the wazoo, and might have to get a new save battery for it, but you can get it. Many/most of these DSiWare games are now lost to potential new players forever. Sure they were probably mostly shovelware crap but the hidden gems are gone for good too.

most of these games wouldnt exist if not for digital distribution, so this is less a digital vs. physical question and more a digitize vs never existing question

these little $6 games were never going to be printed to a cartridge
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Underleveled posted...

Most people don't like engaging in illegal activities.

1. This is a bad argument

2. This is blatantly false
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Underleveled posted...

Most people don't like engaging in illegal activities.

I bet more people like it than people that like "paying out the wazoo and buying a new save battery."

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HashtagSEP posted...

I bet more people like it than people that like "paying out the wazoo and buying a new save battery."

Boy, you sound like a dick

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And you sound like somebody who gets overly defensive when their argument starts to get broken down.

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Underleveled posted...

Most people don't like engaging in illegal activities.

When the game is that old and out of production, no money is going towards the original publisher/developer either way.

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HashtagSEP posted...

And you sound like somebody who gets overly defensive when their argument starts to get broken down.

I'm not getting "overly defensive."

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Underleveled posted...

I'm not getting "overly defensive."

Yet you called me a dick for no reason

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You're being a dick by repeatedly making fun of a weird phrase I used. There'a no need to do that.

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It's literally the basis of your current argument. Am I not supposed to reference your argument when... Debating your argument?

EDIT: You argued the plus of physical is you can find the game to buy somewhere, even if paying out the wazoo and/or having to replace the save battery. That's the argument you made. If you don't want me arguing against that point, you probably shouldn't have made that argument.

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You're obviously making fun of the phrasing I used when you use it multiple times instead of putting it in your own words. Debating my point is one thing but you were blatantly just making fun of me at that point.

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No I'm not. I'm literally just quoting you because it's the exact argument you made. Why would I put it in my own words? It's your argument.

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I guarantee you that more people have emulated games worth $200 than have paid $200 for a used game.
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

most of these games wouldnt exist if not for digital distribution, so this is less a digital vs. physical question and more a digitize vs never existing question

these little $6 games were never going to be printed to a cartridge

But a game that is lost this way might as well have never existed unless someone (illegally) archived it or the devs labor to make a different version available. This is still an issue specifically applying to the digital distribution era.

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I seriously thought DSiWare was delisted ages ago

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I apologize if you took offense for some reason, but I was just quoting what you said. There was zero reason to paraphrase it because it was a short point that you had literally just made. If you think I was intending to mock you for it, that's not the case. I find it better to use an exact quote/argument when debating so that you can't be accused of misconstruing a point.

EDIT: Unless it's the politics topic. Fuck that topic, all rules go out the window.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

But a game that is lost this way might as well have never existed unless someone (illegally) archived it or the devs labor to make a different version available. This is still an issue specifically applying to the digital distribution era.

Eh, to be fair, this is the case for rare physical games, too, since it only exists to the people that have it unless you're willing to greatly overpay for it, which most people aren't. Likewise, those digital games would exist to the people that still have them.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

But a game that is lost this way might as well have never existed unless someone (illegally) archived it or the devs labor to make a different version available. This is still an issue specifically applying to the digital distribution era.

Making your own archival copy is just as legal as selling a game used.
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I think this is a problem with a digital distribution. And streaming in general. Like if a movie or an episode of a TV show is just delisted from platforms for whatever reason, and you can never get it, that really sucks.

I have never emulated anything released after like, 2000 so I have no idea how that scene is working - is it even possible to do that with recent console games?

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CoolCly posted...

I have never emulated anything released after like, 2000 so I have no idea how that scene is working - is it even possible to do that with recent console games?

Emulation has capably caught up to the PS3 at this point. Though plenty of games still have issues, progress is zipping along at an insane speed since these projects are raking in a lot of money through Patreon these days. Switch also has a ridiculously capable emulation scene, with some games actually working on it the week they come out.

PS4 onward is still a long ways off, but doesn't seem as important at the moment since that entire generation is covered by backwards compatibility this gen.

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CoolCly posted...

I think this is a problem with a digital distribution. And streaming in general. Like if a movie or an episode of a TV show is just delisted from platforms for whatever reason, and you can never get it, that really sucks.

I have never emulated anything released after like, 2000 so I have no idea how that scene is working - is it even possible to do that with recent console games?

I got into emulating a bunch over the summer. I havent tried anything too recent, but Wii / DS stuff is pretty easily playable at this point. Its possible something really minor has slipped through the cracks, but this stuff is generally available
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A good trend in emulation is that there has been a legit shift towards legitimate archival and preservation of games rather than just I dont wanna pay for new releases
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HashtagSEP posted...

Eh, to be fair, this is the case for rare physical games, too, since it only exists to the people that have it unless you're willing to greatly overpay for it, which most people aren't. Likewise, those digital games would exist to the people that still have them.

To be fairer, in the case of the physical game the digital archive still has to be made. With digital copies it has already been done, but it's artificially made unavailable.

There's also the subject of longevity - what happens when the hardware starts breaking and you can no longer access it? This is obviously also a problem with physical copies but again, with digital the solution should already exist. But something like PT is just gonna be gone officially when every PS4 capable of playing it breaks, besides pirated archives. And it's already impossible to access "new" copies besides piracy.

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Jakyl25 posted...

A good trend in emulation is that there has been a legit shift towards legitimate archival and preservation of games rather than just I dont wanna pay for new releases

Yeah, this has been really great to see and is a large part of why I espouse digital as the superior format. You get the convenience for modern stuff and legit preservation by the community in the long term. If it was just up to whatever corporate options were on offer I'd be far more skeptical of it.

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Most digital games probably wouldn't exist in the first place without digital platforms.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

But something like PT is just gonna be gone officially when every PS4 capable of playing it breaks, besides pirated archives. And it's already impossible to access "new" copies besides piracy.

There are legal archives of copyrighted software (I believe archive.org has special permission, as do some museums), but obviously those archives aren't supposed to be publicly accessible, so it doesn't help future players much unless copyright laws eventually change or games start lapsing into the public domain.
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BlackMageJawa posted...

games start lapsing into the public domain.

Just 47 more years for Pong
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