Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 350: TIME's Topic of the Year

(+) Yeah! (+)

AOC shows some level of pragmatism and progressives are getting mad at her.

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1337619367857713154?s=19

Look at the ratio on her tweets vs. responses.

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TheRock1525 posted...

AOC shows some level of pragmatism and progressives are getting mad at her.

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1337619367857713154?s=19

Look at the ratio on her tweets vs. responses.

Not gonna lie, it's almost eerie seeing this within 24 hours or so of the Trumpsters' meltdown over the Supreme Court and the GOP betraying them.

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Hard Bastard seems to be giving up on the idea of Trump getting a second term.

Dave Cullen stupidly asked why Covid necessitates a shutting down of society when the Spanish Flu didn't, even though 1918 is a completely different animal from 2020.

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kevwaffles posted...

You also have to ignore that they had much more stringent quarantining and that some of our best curve flattening was when we were also actually quarantining, masks or not, until we got bored of it because you're gonna stay disingenuously laser-focused on one uncited aspect of a complicated situation to defend your own bullshit.

You don't, since the benefit of a pro-mask culture early in the pandemic is measurable and supported by dozens of other countries. Thanks for the example of choosing ignorance in order to suit our own narrative though!

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TheRock1525 posted...

AOC shows some level of pragmatism and progressives are getting mad at her.

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1337619367857713154?s=19

All ideologues end up falling into this excuse. The problem with her response is that it's not "step 1" to follow Pelosi, it's a step back. So obviously progressives don't want that.

What she should have explained is that Congress right now IS just Pelosi and McConnell. The reps don't have the tools to actually pressure Pelosi into changing policy. Voting NO won't help. There is no solution right now.

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foolm0r0n posted...

You don't, since the benefit of a pro-mask culture early in the pandemic is measurable and supported by dozens of other countries. Thanks for the example of choosing ignorance in order to suit our own narrative though!

You're literally just saying the same thing over and over like a toddler to prove your point now.

I've thought many things of you foolmo, but I've never considered you this lazy until now.

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Welcome to the club.

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Locations changed but looks like I still have an early voting place 3 miles away for when it opens tomorrow. Fingers crossed I can knock that out on break, have had a lot of luck with speedy voting this year so far.

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I guess it's been a while since I engaged with him. Honestly this is really a bit disappointing.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Locations changed but looks like I still have an early voting place 3 miles away for when it opens tomorrow. Fingers crossed I can knock that out on break, have had a lot of luck with speedy voting this year so far.

I would not try the very first day, personally.

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I hear ya, though it's Cobb County and as such there are technically 6 within a 15 mile range. First day early votinf for the election was pretty in and out here.

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My friend who lives in Cumberland, which is technically still Cobb despite being an Atlanta address, waited over 8 hours to vote the first day in the general this year. Might be different at the other polling places.

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I hate that these last several weeks have upped my opinion of Chris Wallace.

Just hard not to feel at least a little respect when he takes absolutely zero shit and fire's back mid sentence at anyone who even hints that Biden may not have won

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kevwaffles posted...

You're literally just saying the same thing over and over like a toddler to prove your point now.

I've thought many things of you foolmo, but I've never considered you this lazy until now.

Normally people grasp for another straw when they are proven wrong, so yeah I am glad to repeat my same argument. I've been trying to rephrase it in more agreeable ways but I'm not perfect.

My last repetition is this: To say it was good to have anti-mask messaging in March and then flip to pro-mask a month later is to say that exactly 1 government in the world handled pandemic messaging correctly, and it was Trump's US.

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Oh, apparently @TheRock1525 blocked me again?? I thought hes just been away but I see Invisos quote and notice the missing post now.

Literally what did I do to him?

AOC shows some level of pragmatism and progressives are getting mad at her.

Look at the ratio on her tweets vs. responses.

I know Rock hates the Left, but am I reading this wrong or what? Her post has 5k likes and 2k responses? She didnt get ratioed?

Inviso posted...

Not gonna lie, it's almost eerie seeing this within 24 hours or so of the Trumpsters' meltdown over the Supreme Court and the GOP betraying them.

Implication that MAGA and progressives are same? Nice post

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Now Tony, you know I don't think that's true. Progressives refuse to win elections, so they'd never be the same as MAGA.

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kevwaffles posted...

You're literally just saying the same thing over and over like a toddler to prove your point now.

I've thought many things of you foolmo, but I've never considered you this lazy until now.

Maybe I missed the adult-posting then, because all Ive seen is a repeat of the exact same defense of saying the opposite thing in the beginning had no effect?

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foolm0r0n posted...

Normally people grasp for another straw when they are proven wrong, so yeah I am glad to repeat my same argument. I've been trying to rephrase it in more agreeable ways but I'm not perfect.

My last repetition is this: To say it was good to have anti-mask messaging in March and then flip to pro-mask a month later is to say that exactly 1 government in the world handled pandemic messaging correctly, and it was Trump's US.

Funny, it's my experience that people just shout the same thing over and over when proven wrong as if the world is a binary True/False problem. You've done nothing to dissuade me of that.

The early international messaging from countries that got Covid before us wasn't even to wear a mask. It was pretty myopically focused on washing your hands thouroughly. Still a good thing to do, mind you, but not consistent with the history you've rewritten.

Also, lets say that literally every country adopted masks immediately the second Covid showed up where they live, despite the fact that that's not actually true. That means that masks did absolutely nothing to help the countries that got hit the hardest before us like Italy. Good thing that's not actually what happened and that masks do help stop the spread, because otherwise the rest of the world would be just as badly off as we are now!

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Inviso posted...

Now Tony, you know I don't think that's true. Progressives refuse to win elections, so they'd never be the same as MAGA.

(Im gonna ignore this is a discussion literally irt AOC)
Someone save this post for when Trump backs President Gaetz in 2024

kevwaffles posted...

Funny, it's my experience that people just shout the same thing over and over when proven wrong as if the world is a binary True/False problem. You've done nothing to dissuade me of that.

My guy, only one side of this discussion keeps repeating the same thingin fact <_< You just did it for this comment.

You are actually arguing that doing the wrong thing had no effect. How is that a logical position?

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

My guy, only one side of this discussion keeps repeating the same thingin fact <_< You just did it for this comment.

You are actually arguing that doing the wrong thing had no effect. How is that a logical position?

Foolmo's literally said, and I quote, "I am glad to repeat my same argument" and you're going to isolate the one part I somewhat repeated myself to say I'm the only one doing it? Dear lord...

And no, I'm not arguing doing the wrong thing has no effect. I'm saying quite the opposite if you actually read the rest of my post you quoted. I'm arguing that neither Fauci nor anyone else knew any damn better with the level of certainty we have learned since, but somehow that makes him and him alone the scum of the damn earth to you.

I'm well aware that foolmo's been trying to frame this conversation as people disagreeing with him are anti-mask. I wasn't even going to directly address it because I didn't think anyone was naive enough to take that bait, but I should have learned by now that you give way too much leeway to anyone arguing on the same side as you.

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Can vouch as someone who was full Bernie or bust for the first third of this year that I said a lot of dumb shit that I definitely did not get called out on.

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kevwaffles posted...

Foolmo's literally said, and I quote, "I am glad to repeat my same argument" and you're going to isolate the one part I somewhat repeated myself to say I'm the only one doing it? Dear lord...

I thought shifty eyes would let you know that specific part wasnt all that serious (to point out the absurdity of the its childish to repeat point you were making), but apparently youve decided to read everything I post in the worst way possible.

kevwaffles posted...

And no, I'm not arguing doing the wrong thing has no effect. I'm saying quite the opposite if you actually read the rest of my post you quoted. I'm arguing that neither Fauci nor anyone else knew any damn better with the level of certainty we have learned since, but somehow that makes him and him alone the scum of the damn earth to you.

No man, I literally never said this. I dont think anyone ever said that. You have GOT to actually start reading my posts instead of just reflexively responding to some MAGA stereotypical shit you assume Im saying.

I said the hero worship of Fauci is stupid because he fucked up majorly. I dont CARE if his intent was good, you dont reward people for major fuckups just because Trump is against them.

kevwaffles posted...

I'm well aware that foolmo's been trying to frame this conversation as people disagreeing with him are anti-mask. I wasn't even going to directly address it because I didn't think anyone was naive enough to take that bait, but I should have learned by now that you give way to much leeway to anyone arguing on the same side as you.

foolmo can correct me if Im wrong, but IM not framing the people disagreeing as anti-mask, so I honestly dont know what youre talking about here at all. You seem to be arguing against some completely different person, and its made you hate me somehow too?

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

but apparently youve decided to read everything I post in the worst way possible.

No, I've just decided to actually read what you post as you post it. I'm sorry that shifty eyes don't carry the full meaning you seem to want them to carry, or that you can't recognize the difference between "repeating the same overly simplistic generalization about the rest of the world outside the US until it magically becomes the abosulte truth" is anything close to what I was doing by calling him on it twice.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I said the hero worship of Fauci is stupid because he fucked up majorly. I dont CARE if his intent was good, you dont reward people for major fuckups just because Trump is against them.

And I'm saying that you are looking at one point of time in a bubble and not only ignoring the context of why things were the way they were at that point (ie lack of perfect knowledge for a new disease), but also ignoring nine months of what he's done since. It would be like me narrowly focusing on one bad thing Bernie's ever said as reason that no one should ever like him and then being just completely confused as to why you and plenty of others still liked him.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

foolmo can correct me if Im wrong, but IM not framing the people disagreeing as anti-mask, so I honestly dont know what youre talking about here at all. You seem to be arguing against some completely different person, and its made you hate me somehow too?

Well when you say, and again I quote, 'You are actually arguing that doing the wrong thing had no effect', I can only assume you're talking about my actual arguments. Since you're using quote marks to attribute a statement to me that I have never once said, I'm gonna have a hard time responding to whatever you've dreamed up in the way you want me to.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Can vouch as someone who was full Bernie or bust for the first third of this year that I said a lot of dumb shit that I definitely did not get called out on.

I'm pretty sure the alternative title to these topics is "Dumb shit we shouldn't have said."

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i'll give tony some credit and say that the entire concept of there being one singular "guardian of the year" (which started this whole debate) is pretty stupid tbqh. not to discredit fauci, but there's been tons of people besides him working very hard to reduce the spread of covid this year. seems like some dumb effect of celebrity culture that there needs to be one "hero" we all look up to.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

i'll give tony some credit and say that the entire concept of there being one singular "guardian of the year" (which started this whole debate) is pretty stupid tbqh. not to discredit fauci, but there's been tons of people besides him working very hard to reduce the spread of covid this year. seems like some dumb effect of celebrity culture that there needs to be one "hero" we all look up to.

Unfortunately what you're describing is a timeless flaw in human nature.

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kevwaffles posted...

No, I've just decided to actually read what you post as you post it. I'm sorry that shifty eyes don't carry the full meaning you seem to want them to carry, or that you can't recognize the difference between "repeating the same overly simplistic generalization about the rest of the world outside the US until it magically becomes the abosulte truth" is anything close to what I was doing by calling him on it twice.

You still didnt even understand what I was saying if you added this on the end! Im disagreeing with the core conceit that repetition is bad/childish. If people dont seem to understand or dont debate the content of your posts, you try to rephrase them so they can at least understand where youre coming from. This is normal, and everyone in this topic does it all the time.

kevwaffles posted...

And I'm saying that you are looking at one point of time in a bubble and not only ignoring the context of why things were the way they were at that point (ie lack of perfect knowledge for a new disease), but also ignoring nine months of what he's done since. It would be like me narrowly focusing on one bad thing Bernie's ever said as reason that no one should ever like him and then being just completely confused as to why you and plenty of others still liked him.

First of all, I DIDNT ignore the context, Im the one who posted the context in the last topic!

Secondly, this all started because I said I dont get the liberal worship of this guy, and you have gotten so wrapped up in...whatever this is, that you literally said Im saying he alone is the scum of the Earth.

As Ive acknowledged if youd actually read my posts Kev, there are extenuating circumstances AND sure, his response was not unreasonable, but that doesnt make it not what it was, a mistake.

Theres literally no reason to get so heated defending a guy from my unreasonable criticism of I dont think he did the right thing.

And of course here come the Bernie comparisons. Cant just address my comments, have to go on the attack.

kevwaffles posted...

Well when you say, and again I quote, 'You are actually arguing that doing the wrong thing had no effect', I can only assume you're talking about my actual arguments. Since you're using quote marks to attribute a statement to me that I have never once said, I'm gonna have a hard time responding to whatever you've dreamed up in the way you want me to.

Gonna be real, I have no idea how any of this translates to you thinking foolmo and I are calling you anti mask

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https://twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/1338189444311101441?s=19

Love when they just straight up say it.

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Lots of people on Twitter saying Trump might pardon Snowden.

Ill take it.

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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1338149139205550086?s=19

The NDAA passed with a veto proof majority.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1338149139205550086?s=19

The NDAA passed with a veto proof majority.

But if Trump vetoes it, Republicans who originally voted supported it could flip on the re-vote. Considering how important it is for them to follow Trump 100% or face primary challenges, I'd expect at least some of them to do that.
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I just hope that his defeat being solidified tomorrow is enough for them to stick to their guns.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Secondly, this all started because I said I dont get the liberal worship of this guy, and you have gotten so wrapped up in...whatever this is, that you literally said Im saying he alone is the scum of the Earth.

I mean that was your initial statement, sure, but it definitely seems like you cut deeper than that past it. I'm not saying I'm not embellishing a bit with my phrasing there, but I also wasn't quoting you on those exact words either. I've tried to be very clear when I do that.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

As Ive acknowledged if youd actually read my posts Kev, there are extenuating circumstances AND sure, his response was not unreasonable, but that doesnt make it not what it was, a mistake.

But calling it a mistake or a fuck-up that he should be held against him is saying he could have known with 100% certainty the absolute right thing to do at this point. He could have just assumed cloth masks were worth it right from the start and that would have ended up better for us at the time, but that would have just been a guess at the time. And it also ignores that mask protocols, even then, were not the only advice being given at the time. If we quarantined sooner and for longer (and were given more support to do so), mask advice would be more trivial than it is.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

And of course here come the Bernie comparisons. Cant just address my comments, have to go on the attack.

I didn't attack Bernie or you for liking him. It's a surface level, theoretical comparison to a guy you like solely because it shouldn't be that easy to get you to turn on him. I purposely didn't come up with something he's actually said or done because I'm not trying to make this a point of attack.

(Side note: I'm not a Bernie supporter, but I like the guy just fine. And while I've taken issue with things his supporters have said, you included, that doesn't mean I think you're wrong for supporting him like I think for supporters of certain other politicians, who shall remain nameless.)

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I just hope that his defeat being solidified tomorrow is enough for them to stick to their guns.

I'm not. The more fractured the Republican Party becomes the better. They need to start taking sides and go full Civil War.

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Xeybozn posted...

But if Trump vetoes it, Republicans who originally voted supported it could flip on the re-vote. Considering how important it is for them to follow Trump 100% or face primary challenges, I'd expect at least some of them to do that.

Honestly, given the pulse of his base lately, if I were in their shoes I would be significantly less concerned about this than I would have been even a week ago.

Edit: That's not to disagree with your point, just that it seems like a less surefire political strategy now.

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TheRock1525 posted...

I'm not. The more fractured the Republican Party becomes the better. They need to start taking sides and go full Civil War.

I think he meant all the people saying they wouldn't vote in GA runoffs? That's not exactly disparate from your point.

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kevwaffles posted...

I'm well aware that foolmo's been trying to frame this conversation as people disagreeing with him are anti-mask

No, I'm saying that you WERE anti-mask, and you still think it was a good thing to be anti-mask at the time. Which is Fauci's current position. And the point is that you should empathize with the current anti-maskers better than you do now.

kevwaffles posted...

The early international messaging from countries that got Covid before us wasn't even to wear a mask. It was pretty myopically focused on washing your hands thouroughly. Still a good thing to do, mind you, but not consistent with the history you've rewritten.

If all those asian countries and western countries before the US weren't pro-mask then I'm wrong. I remember the US being uniquely anti-mask for a while though.

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Trump really wants to kill forums doesnt he?
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htaeD posted...

Trump really wants to kill forums doesnt he?

can't make fun of him if there are no places to make fun of anyone left

*points at head*

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Someone ask Rock why he blocked me

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rock why did you block tony?

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oh hey it's cuomo's turn.

https://twitter.com/LindseyBoylan/status/1338125549756182529

this'll be fun to see play out.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

rock why did you block tony?

He went off on RBG for having the audacity, while dying of cancer, to take some time out to officiate a wedding.

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That's terrible if true. But I am not sure what is supposed to come off this.
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Tony didn't go off tbh. He just said it was a bad decision given her importance and I generally agree with that.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Tony didn't go off tbh. He just said it was a bad decision given her importance and I generally agree with that.

Once again, the lady was dying of cancer. She wouldn't have lived any longer if she didn't perform that wedding.

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Also like... she didn't die of COVID. It's just a complete non-sequitur to... do what?

I was also pretty damn mad at that episode myself.

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I am generally not results based. In her position she should have 100% been as cautious as possible. Because she was too important to our country.

Now Tony doesn't always have the best reactions or phrasings, but the spirit of his sheer fucking panic is fair.

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Well I can't see post 244, but context clues I'm guessing Rock RE-blocked me over me pointing out RBG went to a wedding 18 days before she died?

What exactly re-opened that wound?

Just like me just saying "I don't get the love for Fauci" has turned into accusations I said he's "scum", some of you guys get way too angry at me for the pettiest shit.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

but the spirit of his sheer fucking panic is fair.

if that was meant to express "sheer fucking panic" i'm going to say it not only missed the mark, it wasn't even in the right game

If we're being completely honest, given that Tony likes to post shots at the establishment Democratic party (sometimes deserved, but also imho sometimes not) it legitimately felt like just another one of those at the absolute worst time given the consequences of the event. Maybe that's not how he intended it, but that's absolutely how I took it and I suspect Rock took it similarly.

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