Current Events > Neil Druckmann's performative "wokeness" disgusts me

(+) Yeah! (+)

The dude is such a hypocrite. He has the audacity to talk about how progressive and woke he is while crunching his subordinates to insane levels. Like you really can't claim to be a bastion of progressiveness when you treat your underlings like expendable trash

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but i don't know who that is

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Nobody woke is actually progressive.

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ArianaGrandSlam posted...

but he taught me that revenge is bad, hes couldnt possibly be a bad man

i don't get why people are so upset at a game having a simple theme

like virtually every other form of fiction since the dawn of civilization

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ZombiePelican posted...

when you treat your underlings like expendable trash

he did this?

I saw something about TLoU2's crunch time, but I also saw something about the company's management trying to limit hours developers worked so they wouldn't be there for an extended amount of time, so idk if they were pressured, coerced, forced, etc. to work all of that extra time.

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g0ldie posted...

he did this?

I saw something about TLoU2's crunch time, but I also saw something about the company's management trying to limit hours developers worked so they wouldn't be there for an extended amount of time, so idk if they were pressured, coerced, forced, etc. to work all of that extra time.

Yes, read up on the stories of the insane crunch he put his employees through and how for a time they literally had to hire movie CGI animators because nobody experienced in game development animation wanted to work under the insane levels of crunch at Naughty Dog

https://gamerant.com/former-naughty-dog-animator-says-studios-crunch-reputation-makes-near-impossible-hire-experienced-game-animators/

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yea, too bad TLoU2 didn't have any dead mystics to pull the player in a purgatorial state to reflect on the consequences of their actions

nevermind that both stories were aiming for different things about the ramifications of violence, though...

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g0ldie posted...

yea, too bad TLoU2 didn't have any dead mystics to pull the player in a purgatorial state to reflect on the consequences of their actions

nevermind that both stories were aiming for different things about the ramifications of violence, though...

Except the narrative of TLoU2 doesn't work or make any sense under even the slightest magnifying glass. Spec Ops: The Line did this kind of narrative better without trying to paint itself as some kind of huge leap forward for narrative in gaming

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ArianaGrandSlam posted...

The Sorrows segment in MGS3 is still more effective than any named-but-still-random NPC calling out to another named-but-still-random NPC at showing you what a bastard you are for killing so much. and thats just one example

Uh plenty of games give random enemies names. I'm still laughing at how that and dog whimpering triggers people so much. Sounds like projection.

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ZombiePelican posted...

Except the narrative of TLoU2 doesn't work or make any sense under even the slightest magnifying glass.

Clearly you're in the minority on this opinion here

Made perfect sense to me and apparently most other people

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ZombiePelican posted...

Except the narrative of TLoU2 doesn't work or make any sense under even the slightest magnifying glass.

how so? have any examples, or anything?

ZombiePelican posted...

Spec Ops: The Line did this kind of narrative better without trying to paint itself as some kind of huge leap forward for narrative in gaming

one, I disagree, and two, how can you make that claim against TLoU2 while saying differently about Spec Ops?

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ZombiePelican posted...

Yes, read up on the stories of the insane crunch he put his employees through and how for a time they literally had to hire movie CGI animators because nobody experienced in game development animation wanted to work under the insane levels of crunch at Naughty Dog

https://gamerant.com/former-naughty-dog-animator-says-studios-crunch-reputation-makes-near-impossible-hire-experienced-game-animators/

I was reading through the guy's Twitter thread, and I didn't see anything about Druckmann forcing people to do anything outside of the legal team trying to get him to sign an NDA about the company's practices.

I was looking, and it seems like ND has been known for its crunch time since its Uncharted 2 days, and people go into the company knowing that

but it could just be Druckmann talking; idk

https://www.dualshockers.com/neil-druckmann-naughty-dog-crunch-comment/


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ArianaGrandSlam posted...

but he taught me that revenge is bad, hes couldnt possibly be a bad man

"Revenge is bad" isnt even a prominent theme in the game imo, the whole thing is about grief & a (very obvious) meta-commentary on the aesthetics of violence in video games. not saying tlou2 had the best story but so much of the criticisms i see of the game come from ppl who clearly didnt even seem to play it

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ArianaGrandSlam posted...

violence is fun, what makes you think Im at all triggered by it?

the only thing thats upsetting about it is how sloppy the execution of it is

how was the execution sloppy

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Is work slave driving during crunch time really anti-progressive, though?

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ArianaGrandSlam posted...

did YOU play it? Holy shit are you kidding me?

at no point in the game did i encounter a scene where i felt like the writers were trying to discuss the ethics of revenge, its pretty fucking obvious to any adult playing the game that going on a warpath to murder a bunch of people might potentially not be a morally sound choice. this is not a marvel movie or nickelodeon show. the writers make it very clear that grief is the motivator on both sides, thats literally the whole point of those joel flashbacks

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Why have you allowed a literal video game to break your mind

ArianaGrandSlam posted...

Yeah Ellies single-minded focus on revenge totally doesnt drive Dina away and get several people killed while the game takes every step to show you what a consumed monster shes being by humanizing the other deranged monsters, how foolish of me to read it that way, theres not a hint of it in the game at all

idk i guess you're free to interpret the story however you want, i dont really feel like arguing further on this. i didnt even like the game all that much. just thought it was a very reductive statement to make the plot sound like an after school special

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There's lot of themes in the game and it's fine to interpret it anyway you like. What's the problem here? That someone understood the game differently from you?

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man, people *really* want an excuse to shit on the inclusivity in the last of us 2. "the director is a piece of shit who overworks his employees so that means he only put in female/queer/trans characters to pretend to be woke."

this whole topic is performative wokeness.

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Veggeta X posted...

There's lot of themes in the game and it's fine to interpret it anyway you like. What's the problem here? That someone understood the game differently from you?

Romulox28 posted...

just thought it was a very reductive statement to make the plot sound like an after school special

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ssk9716757 posted...

man, people *really* want an excuse to shit on the inclusivity in the last of us 2. "the director is a piece of shit who overworks his employees so that means he only put in female and trans characters to pretend to be woke."

this whole topic is "performative wokeness."

I guess what TC is simply tryna say is you can't respect the art/talent if you can't respect the artist which I understand to a certain degree.

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a narrative can have multiple themes, and yea, we see how Ellie's pursuit of revenge tears through the lives of others, including those she loves as well as herself, but it's also about grief and coping with it - Ellie's revenge was driven by her grief, and her only way to deal with it (for her) was getting the ones who made her feel that way back

it's also about empathy, because after hating Abby for what she has done for half the game, we see things from her perspective, and understand her motivations



love for others is another theme, since Abby only starts to have any kinda resolution about her dad being killed when she puts herself out there for the sake of Yara and Lev, and begins to care for them.

lastly, it's also about forgiveness - Ellie began the process of working to forgive Joel, and that's partly why his being murdered pushed her so much to get Abby because she hadn't yet forgiven herself for putting a distance between them for so long, and maybe she didn't exactly forgive Abby, but she wasn't just this monster who killed Joel in cold-blood, but someone who was also grieving because of his actions

there's also some stuff about obsession, and how Ellie wanted to let go, but couldn't allow herself


also, you guys should mark your spoilers just in case

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Doom_Art posted...

Clearly you're in the minority on this opinion here

Made perfect sense to me and apparently most other people

According to what, all those awards it was handed I mean awarded last night lol

Im so glad Druck accidentally screwed the game out of the players choice award; that wouldve been the crown jewel of the minority opinion angle Im sure

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ZombiePelican posted...

Like you really can't claim to be a bastion of progressiveness when you treat your underlings like expendable trash

But... diverse expendable trash.