Current Events > Christopher Nolan is pretty pissed at Warner Brothers lol

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://twitter.com/THR/status/1336108590495637505

Bro, you forced your dumb movie to release during a pandemic and caused WB to lose a shit ton of money, and now you're throwing a tantrum. WB did everything he wanted for Tenet even though they really shouldn't have. Might be ruining his relationship permanently with them.
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First I've heard of any of this, what's going on?

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This is entirely his own fucking fault

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kirbyakaZ posted...

First I've heard of any of this, what's going on?

WB is putting all future releases for a year (iirc) on HBO Max and Nolan is mad even though his demands to have Tenet release in the summer caused WB to lose hundreds of millions of dollars plus whatever payout was promised to him.
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Like what is it that they want WB to do in this situation?

It sounds like the bigger issue is more how they pulled the rug under a bunch of industry people which could impact their residual payments.

But eh. Not really a fight that concerns the general public. If Warner Bros has burned a bunch of bridges and people go elsewhere then so be it. Otherwise this is all a bunch of industry people throwing tantrums.

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CommonStar posted...

Like what is it that they want WB to do in this situation?

Either sit on movies that are depreciating in returns by not being released at all or release them in theaters to poor box office numbers. What's rich with Nolan complaining is he probably received a payout from Tenet that rivals how much the movie made overall. Probably 1/3 of box office.
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It's not just Nolan who is annoyed

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1336099820864495619?s=19

James Gunn is also unhappy.

It seems like they gave big payouts to Gadot and Jenkins for Wonder Woman 2 to make it worth it for them but that's it. Sounds like they rushed the decision a bit if Warner Bros execs were reassuring their talent that movies weren't gonna be dumped to HBO Max a week before they announced that was gonna happen. Although who knows if they had a way to do this that would please everyone.

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Smashingpmkns posted...

WB is putting all future releases for a year (iirc) on HBO Max and Nolan is mad even though his demands to have Tenet release in the summer caused WB to lose hundreds of millions of dollars plus whatever payout was promised to him.

In fairness he's not the only one, it's rumored that Legendary aren't going to let WB release Godzilla or Dune on streaming before the movies are in theaters first.
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Wait a minute. Why is the rug being pulled out from under Godzilla vs. Kong?

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Tenant was a bad movie.

voldothegr8 posted...

In fairness he's not the only one, it's rumored that Lionsgate aren't going to let WB release Godzilla or Dune on streaming before the movies are in theaters first.

They'd better not. A large part of the appeal of monster movies is getting to see giant monsters on a giant screen. I don't want to watch King Kong fight Godzilla on an iPhone screen.

Any millionaire complaining about the company giving them millions of dollars to act now trying to ensure that people can actually watch their movies can go to hell.

Yeah, it might not be ideal to watch a movie on a streaming service versus in a theater in terms of quality, but it does assure literally everyone with internet access has the opportunity. A film's quality should not be dependent on how big the screen is.

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SquirtleSkwad posted...

Wait a minute. Why is the rug being pulled out from under Godzilla vs. Kong?

Warner Bros pulled the rug out under every single movie they intended to release in 2021.

Probably should have planned it out a bit better and talked to the studios and the like first and making sure they were good to go. The impression they've given here is that HBO Max is the most important thing for them now. Which may be true but of course that's gonna cause an exodus if that's the case.

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SquirtleSkwad posted...

Wait a minute. Why is the rug being pulled out from under Godzilla vs. Kong?

This article explains it but basically the distributor, WB, made promises to release movies to digital at the same time as theaters without the creators (many investors) approval.

https://deadline.com/2020/12/warnermedia-legendary-challenge-dune-godzilla-vs-kong-streamer-battles-looming-1234651283/
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I think the issues with contractual obligations connected with box office performance is 100% fair and they should be mad about that and work towards getting that figured out. But Nolan specifically complaining about it is stupid because he is partially responsible for this to begin with.
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Smashingpmkns posted...

I think the issues with contractual obligations connected with box office performance is 100% fair and they should be mad about that and work towards getting that figured out. But Nolan specifically complaining about it is stupid because he is partially responsible for this to begin with.

This is true. I'm assuming WB will work with anyone that has obligations through box office performance and tie it into views on streaming as well.

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Anything they do going forward is going to look like damage control but Gal Gadot receiving a payout for a movie that is being released very soon to stream is probably a sign that they're paying as they go and not some sort of preferential treatment. Thinking that Gal Gadot and Patty Jenkins will receive a payout but Keanu Reeves or whomever wont is silly.
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Smashingpmkns posted...

I think the issues with contractual obligations connected with box office performance is 100% fair and they should be mad about that and work towards getting that figured out. But Nolan specifically complaining about it is stupid because he is partially responsible for this to begin with.

I don't think Tenet being released or not would have really changed much here.

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

This is true. I'm assuming WB will work with anyone that has obligations through box office performance and tie it into views on streaming as well.

Well whatever they're doing pretty much everyone outside of Gadot and Jenkins aren't happy with it. I doubt Warner Bros can make enough through HBO Max to make most of them happy. It's not even anywhere near as available worldwide as stuff like Netflix or Disney+

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imagine paying Gal Gadot who cant act or do any other accents but not the actual good actors lol

Darmik posted...

I don't think Tenet being released or not would have really changed much here.

It definitely did. Tenet was a test for the WB. Literally their biggest director releasing a movie to a huge loss. If they didn't release Tenet at the very least they would have been able to push this date out to figure out contractual obligations. Tenet's failure fast tracked this decision.
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Smashingpmkns posted...

It definitely did. Tenet was a test for the WB. Literally their biggest director releasing a movie to a huge loss. If they didn't release Tenet at the very least they would have been able to push this date out to figure out contractual obligations. Tenet's failure fast tracked this decision.

Warner Bros can't sit on a whole bunch of movies forever. They'd be making even less money than they are now if Tenet didn't release at all. The first movie impacted by this was only ever gonna be Tenet or Wonder Woman. The longer they waited the more movies they'd be sitting on losing money.

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Darmik posted...

Which may be true but of course that's gonna cause an exodus if that's the case.

Good luck on that!

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Wasnt Nolans take for the Tenet movie based on box office performance? If so, he must be pissed. I mean, imagine if there was no pandemic. That movie could have made a billion dollars and Nolan could have gotten hundreds of millions of dollars.

CADE FOSTER posted...

imagine paying Gal Gadot who cant act or do any other accents but not the actual good actors lol

Never saw the movie, but I did see the scene where Superman fights the Justice League in BvS on Youtube, and cringey way Gadot reacted to being headbutted by Superman is forever burned in my mind.

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PrideOfLion posted...

I think WB is seeing the writing on the wall about theaters and the pandemic while industry representatives are struggling to keep up with the necessary changes

Yep. That's 100% what it is

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Darmik posted...

They'd be making even less money than they are now if Tenet didn't release at all.

Not true actually. They reported a 100m loss but it's probably closer to 400m or 500m. And Nolan actually received 20% of the box office. So they really didnt make shit off of it.
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Warner Bros should just pay to make all these movies and then never release them, what could go wrong?!?

Smashingpmkns posted...

Not true actually. They reported a 100m loss but it's probably closer to 400m or 500m. And Nolan actually received 20% of the box office. So they really didnt make shit off of it.

Which is still more than not releasing it in the theaters at all. Unless Tenet would somehow drive up HBO Max to significant numbers on its own which I doubt. All of these upcoming movies aren't really going to make their money back because they were funded with theaters and the box office in mind. They're all fucked.

Warner Bros announced their line-up for HBO Max all at once hoping they'll keep people subscribed for an entire year and that's what they're banking on.

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Darmik posted...

Which is still more than not releasing it in the theaters at all.

Is that true? They advertised the shit out of it. How much did that cost and how much did it bring in for WB?

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PrideOfLion posted...

I think WB is seeing the writing on the wall about theaters and the pandemic while industry representatives are struggling to keep up with the necessary changes

This. Do they not understand that people aren't going to movie theaters anytime soon, if at all ever again in large numbers?

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Darmik posted...

Which is still more than not releasing it in the theaters at all. Unless Tenet would somehow drive up HBO Max to significant numbers on its own which I doubt. All of these upcoming movies aren't really going to make their money back because they were funded with theaters and the box office in mind. They're all fucked.

Warner Bros announced their line-up for HBO Max all at once hoping they'll keep people subscribed for an entire year and that's what they're banking on.

The same way $1 is more than $0 but when you're spending $100 and receive $1 in exchange it's not really "more". They would have made more money if they went to VOD. and they definitely would have made more money by releasing it on Max. Them losing money on Tenet is Nolan's fault as he wouldn't waver on releasing it on digital.
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Balrog0 posted...

Is that true? They advertised the shit out of it. How much did that cost and how much did it bring in for WB?

Expected loss is 100m but it's most likely closer to half a billion with a movie like this.
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FortuneCookie posted...

They'd better not. A large part of the appeal of monster movies is getting to see giant monsters on a giant screen. I don't want to watch King Kong fight Godzilla on an iPhone screen.

So then get a TV.

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every movie theater in my area is closed. at this point i guess he'd prefer that no one saw his movies?

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Balrog0 posted...

Is that true? They advertised the shit out of it. How much did that cost and how much did it bring in for WB?

Well if they aren't gonna advertise their movies for HBO Max I don't know how well that's gonna work out for them lol.

Again there's a reason they've randomly done this for the whole 2021 line up. One movie isn't enough. They want people to stay subbed to watch all of them. They're going all in.

BeantownHero posted...

This. Do they not understand that people aren't going to movie theaters anytime soon, if at all ever again in large numbers?

They also don't have the option to release in international markets that have the pandemic under control first or release on-demand/physical versions you can buy and rent first. I don't think they're confident in HBO Max's subscriber count either. It's not a worldwide streaming service.

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he should try showing some more grit

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Darmik posted...

Well if they aren't gonna advertise their movies for HBO Max I don't know how well that's gonna work out for them lol.

Probably different than tenet at least? Lol.

Darmik posted...

Again there's a reason they've randomly done this for the whole 2021 line up. One movie isn't enough. They want people to stay subbed to watch all of them.

Yeah, I'm trying to say they paid money to lose an asset they could leverage for other reasons and your logic itt has largely been to say that they are using assets for other reasons, which also cost money, so it doesn't matter.

Like I'm not saying they won't still lose money, I'm just saying they'd rather lose it trying to invest in future revenue instead of paying directors and actors. Maybe they should do that ethically or even legally, but I get their motivation

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WB is only doing this because HBO Max is getting absolutely crushed in the streaming wars right now, and they have no flagship show or anything at all on the platform to drive people to it. This is their last chance. CBS All Access is almost beating them, it is embarrassing, they arent even in the conversation with Disney+ and Netflix, and Wall Street is pissed.

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Smashingpmkns posted...

The same way $1 is more than $0 but when you're spending $100 and receive $1 in exchange it's not really "more". They would have made more money if they went to VOD. and they definitely would have made more money by releasing it on Max. Them losing money on Tenet is Nolan's fault as he wouldn't waver on releasing it on digital.

Smashingpmkns posted...

Expected loss is 100m but it's most likely closer to half a billion with a movie like this.

Well I assume that's overall costs. I just mean that final advertising and marketing push, which I assume isn't public info obviously. But my assumption is that wb definitely didn't recoup those costs, so I still agree with your overall point

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provided i'm extremely stupid but i don't see how wb has a choice

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Balrog0 posted...

Yeah, I'm trying to say they paid money to lose an asset they could leverage for other reasons and your logic itt has largely been to say that they are using assets for other reasons, which also cost money, so it doesn't matter.

In the case for Tenet it doesn't really. Either it would get lumped with the other 2021 movies to be day one HBO Max movie or it's the canary in the coal mine to see if cinemas can still work in a pandemic. They gave one shot to see if cinemas would work and it didn't. One of the big blockbusters was going to make that gamble to make sure. May as well be Tenet. Especially since Nolan cares about the principal of it more than the money it seems. I don't think giving him a big money hat like they did for Jenkins and Gadot would have fixed his grievances regardless.

When it comes to future movies they're likely making the right call but they probably should have done the transition better because this might bite Warner Bros really hard in the long term if people are happier with how the other studios handled it. All of this working out is assuming HBO Max is even a success.

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I think it should be pointed out that WB offered Nolan to postpone the movie indefinitely and he forced the summer release date. It's very likely that even if this decision were to be made now that his movie still wouldnt have been released on stream unless he approved.
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Darmik posted...

In the case for Tenet it doesn't really. Either it would get lumped with the other 2021 movies to be day one HBO Max movie or it's the canary in the coal mine to see if cinemas can still work in a pandemic. They gave one shot to see if cinemas would work and it didn't. One of the big blockbusters was going to make that gamble to make sure. May as well be Tenet. Especially since Nolan cares about the principal of it more than the money it seems. I don't think giving him a big money hat like they did for Jenkins and Gadot would have fixed his grievances regardless.

I mean, Nolan fans seem like prime HBO max targets to me! And he hates them anyway, so why not? I definitely think you're underestimating the upside for them

Darmik posted...

When it comes to future movies they're likely making the right call but they probably should have done the transition better because this might bite Warner Bros really hard in the long term if people are happier with how the other studios handled it. All of this working out is assuming HBO Max is even a success.

Well, again I'm not super well versed in the movie industry, but my assumption here is that you have it backwards. Not saying relationships on the business side don't matter, but wb is probably more concerned with getting consumers on board to try to stay in the fight with the Netflix given the film industry is likely not going to be a money maker for many quarters

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Smashingpmkns posted...

I think it should be pointed out that WB offered Nolan to postpone the movie indefinitely and he forced the summer release date. It's very likely that even if this decision were to be made now that his movie still wouldnt have been released on stream unless he approved.

Lmao well then I actually think I agree @Darmik , my bad

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I still think Tenet had a better chance to make money on digital and I'm sure WB would have been willing to rework the 20% agreement to benefit both parties.
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Balrog0 posted...

Well, again I'm not super well versed in the movie industry, but my assumption here is that you have it backwards. Not saying relationships on the business side don't matter, but wb is probably more concerned with getting consumers on board to try to stay in the fight with the Netflix given the film industry is likely not going to be a money maker for many quarters

Possibly but I think there's probably a better middle ground they could have taken that didn't somehow piss off everyone who makes movies for them.

Going at it one movie at a time would probably work out better instead of committing to a complete 2021 HBO Max release schedule but they want that certainty for subscribers. They're just in an awkward spot in general since they have one of the least popular major streaming services. Disney is probably in a better position overall because of this and can afford to react and experiment. If this gamble doesn't pay off it'll be absolutely dire for Warner Bros. They're even sacrificing VOD rentals to make HBO Max appealing.

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Man, I didn't even know HBO Max existed. I guess I'm never seeing any of those movies lol. Oh well.

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Fwiw HBO Max is easily the best streaming service available outside of the shitty UI. Netflix still has the market cornered on the UI lol
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