Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 348: Trump Stumped by Massive Dumps

(+) Yeah! (+)

LordoftheMorons posted...

The RNA-based vaccines dont use covid itself at all (even an inactivated version). Its not even hypothetically possible that you could get covid from one. They basically just built in something that targets covids spike protein.

Yes, but messing with RNA is also scary. What if it targets something in my cells instead?

I am very aware though that I can't process low probability events rationally. But on an emotional level, I'm sort of happy I probably won't be eligible until later.

---

Wanglicious posted...

you do get sick afterwards but it's for a few days and relatively minor, though we do need more info.

I believe all of the known vaccine side effects from the trials are just ones you would expect from a strong immune response (aches, fatigue, etc).

---

red sox 777 posted...

Yes, but messing with RNA is also scary. What if it targets something in my cells instead?

I am very aware though that I can't process low probability events rationally. But on an emotional level, I'm sort of happy I probably won't be eligible until later.

Well yeah it is new technology and there could hypothetically be some unforeseen issues; I'm just saying we can definitively rule out getting covid itself because there's no form of covid in the RNA vaccines at all.

---

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Yes.

If "concern about long time effects from a vaccine" is real enough to be weighed against what we already know about COVID then surely there must be documented long term effects from other vaccines.

Otherwise you are either (A) just mongering some pointless fear or are (B) legitimately buying into the anti-vaxxer bs that has been disproved, debunked and discredited ad nauseam.

counterpoint: there isn't a single vaccine comparable to the ones we're talking about. not in process, not in speed. mRNA vaccines are new for human testing - we're talking the earliest known trials coming out in 2017 with none on the market or in widespread usage. so if you're looking for something to somewhat compare it to you're honestly gonna have to go back at least mid 1900s and i don't think that's particularly fair to it since our ability to analyze is significantly better than it was back then. i'm not gonna compare it to older vaccines that have fallen out of style for the same reason, we didn't know what the exact risks were at the time either. for now, this is an unknown and you're asking for a citation on a new type of vaccine being put to use on a massive scale that's developed in under a year for a virus that's existed for about a year. literally nobody knows what kind of long term effects that can have.

of the limited research we know on mRNA vaccines, those with autoimmune disorders are probably the ones most at risk. inflammation is a known concern but i don't know how big an impact that is or how it can affect those with other conditions.

this'll be useful for redsox too if you're worried, here - this came out 2 years ago on describing what mRNA vaccines do in a very in depth way.
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

it's very technical on the type of vaccines we're talking about so it's dense, not something to read at 3AM. for an easier read of the history, here https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/89998


---

Jakyl25 posted...

Yeah isnt the timeline supposed to be that they expect to have enough for everyone by the end of April?

honestly the drug companies are saying that but i highly doubt that's gonna happen and i don't think a lot of professionals think that's realistic either, just basic supply and demand. there isn't nearly enough supply for this to occur and not enough time to create new amounts of it. ultimately this is pretty okay for everyone who's cautious about it because it means that there ain't gonna be enough anyway.

---

Wanglicious posted...

honestly the drug companies are saying that but i highly doubt that's gonna happen and i don't think a lot of professionals think that's realistic either, just basic supply and demand. there isn't nearly enough supply for this to occur and not enough time to create new amounts of it. ultimately this is pretty okay for everyone who's cautious about it because it means that there ain't gonna be enough anyway.

source on any of this?

---

of supply issues? seriously dude?
we're literally asking for the greatest undertaking ever on supply chains, on a new vaccine, using new technology, during a pandemic when they've been notoriously busted, where one vaccine needs extreme temperatures (which also has limited supply) and another still needs refrigeration. of course they're not gonna hit targets! it's impossible. realistically, the end of April situation is hoping all the people in the early groups (doctors, elderly, etc) who want to take it have taken it. public at large is nowhere close to this nor is it believed to be that way.

also getting this out the way now - there will be reports of the vaccine not working at all and it will be entirely because supply lines didn't work the way they were supposed to. this leads to another series of questions: what happens to the vaccine if temperature conditions fail? how does that affect a person if that's what they're injected with? what differences in temperature and time are seen in this? we're gonna get those answers regardless but ideally we'll know an idea beforehand (we won't, this will be a shitshow when it happens).

but really, a quick google check gets me this. Ctrl F Supply and voila.
https://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-21-207
For example, officials at one COVID-19 vaccine manufacturing facility told us that they have experienced challenges obtaining materials, including disposable reactor bags, reagents, and certain chemicals. They also said that due to global demand, they sometimes must wait 4-12 weeks for items that before the pandemic were typically available for shipment within one week. One expert we interviewed also told us that the supply of the materials used in fillfinish manufacturing, such as glass vials and pre-filled syringes, is limited.

(...)

This knowledge transfer is a complex process, and one expert we interviewed told us that it is especially difficult for new technologies such as RNA vaccines, where there is little experience in scaling up productiongoing from making a small amount of vaccine in a laboratory setting to commercial scale production of hundreds of millions of vaccine doses. Additionally, there has been at least one instance in which the technology transfer process for a COVID-19 vaccine has been hampered by disagreements over ownership of intellectual property rights related to manufacturing technology.

it goes on for a while since it's a 57 page report but you can just Ctrl F for key words and get a clear picture. or this.
https://www.vaccinestoday.eu/stories/when-will-covid-19-vaccines-be-available/
We are hopeful that vaccines will begin to become available in Q1 of 2021, but well at first find ourselves in a situation where demand vastly outstrips supply, she explains. CEPI is working with GAVI, WHO and industry partners on COVAX a global initiative that aims to deliver 2 billion doses of COVID-19 vaccine next year.

which basically translates to "there's no way we're hitting anywhere close to demand and we know these are lofty ideals but it's what we're aiming for."

or this.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/creating-covid-19-vaccine-only-first-step-reaching-world-next-n1248761

which is the easiest read that gets into it of the three.
seriously man, i don't know what you're thinking on this one.

---

Wanglicious posted...

which basically translates to "there's no way we're hitting anywhere close to demand and we know these are lofty ideals but it's what we're aiming for."

or this.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/creating-covid-19-vaccine-only-first-step-reaching-world-next-n1248761

which is the easiest read that gets into it of the three.
seriously man, i don't know what you're thinking on this one.

ok well this one talks about vaccinating the world.

The good news for the US is that we pre-ordered. This is a gaming forum, I don't need to explain that one. Our money is better than their money.

---

Wanglicious posted...

of supply issues? seriously dude?
we're literally asking for the greatest undertaking ever on supply chains, on a new vaccine, using new technology, during a pandemic when they've been notoriously busted, where one vaccine needs extreme temperatures (which also has limited supply) and another still needs refrigeration. of course they're not gonna hit targets! it's impossible. realistically, the end of April situation is hoping all the people in the early groups (doctors, elderly, etc) who want to take it have taken it. public at large is nowhere close to this nor is it believed to be that way.

You keep claiming this and you continue to have no source.

Its hard, yes. But we are good at solving problems especially when there is money to be made.

---

no source in a post with literal sources and blurbs of it, incredible. reality's gonna be a bitch when it hits ya, i don't even know what this delusion is.


---

Your source says its hard. You say its impossible. They are talking in billions of doses. The united states doesn't even need half of that. Your source does not support your claim.

---

regardless of that, you've led us on a dumb tangent. Your claim is "not taking it until a year or two" for reasons unrelated to availability and then trying to skirt being called an anti-vaxxer by going "lol not going to be available anyway".

---

yep, definitely worthless to talk to. just didn't expect to have the reading be that selective.

---

red13n posted...

regardless of that, you've led us on a dumb tangent. Your claim is "not taking it until a year or two" for reasons unrelated to availability and then trying to skirt being called an anti-vaxxer by going "lol not going to be available anyway".

I also don't think you even read the things you post.

---

This is more pathetic than usual, Wang. A difficult feat!

---

I think there is no way there won't be enough vaccines by April. What concerns me is that so many seem dead set against the vaccine and Biden seems to be hard against mandating it. He could easily tie requirements in.

---

John Delaney had the idea of the government paying people $1500 each to take the vaccine

i think that creates some bad incentives while were supply-limited, but its an interesting idea if uptake isnt high enough

---

My mother in law has a bunch of health issues, and she said her doctor is recommending that she gets the vaccine as soon as the first wave is available. Shes only one person, but if her doctor is able to get her the vaccine Ill let people know if she has any issues. It probably wont help some people here, but oh well.

---

UshiromiyaEva posted...

This is more pathetic than usual, Wang. A difficult feat!

actually par for the course. when he feels like he's ran out of arguments, he just randomly goes "you didn't read my post, you can't read, you're worthless to respond to." it's exactly what he did to me in the gamergate topics.

---

Corrik7 posted...

I think there is no way there won't be enough vaccines by April. What concerns me is that so many seem dead set against the vaccine and Biden seems to be hard against mandating it. He could easily tie requirements in.

Considering all the push back we see with just masks, I feel like a vaccine mandate would cause actual riots.

I do really like Delaneys idea (what am I typing...?) of tying in a stimulus check with the vaccine though.

---

this is why editors are good kids

https://twitter.com/DKThomp/status/1335246321293422592?s=19

---

"Am I getting editorial oversite applied to my stories because I'm a total hack without it...no, it's The Intercept that is wrong!"

---

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

this is why editors are good kids

https://twitter.com/DKThomp/status/1335246321293422592?s=19

Lmfao the grift is in full effect. Please stop taking this man as a serious journalist progressives.

---

uh oh suprak are you becoming... a Delaney-ac?

I'm not sure Biden/the federal government can mandate a vaccine. An incentive-based approach, perhaps, but a flat mandate strikes me as something that would be struck down fast and end up only stirring up a - distressingly - not insignificant percentage of the population.

---

Based on the response I've seen across social media over the last few hours I don't think that's too much of a concern.

He came out swining a bit to hard here with the tinfoil bat.

---

Is the Delaney thing a payment in addition to cutting a check like last time or a requirement for getting the check?

Because uh...means testing is bad, means testing based on a product with limited access is worse

---

StartTheMachine posted...

Lmfao the grift is in full effect. Please stop taking this man as a serious journalist progressives.

gabbard, greenwald

i was sounding the alarm on them in this topic over a year before each went mask off. a prophet is never recognized in their own time.

---

Then he runs onto Tucker Carlson to whine about it. Because nothing says "Progressive Champion" like aligning with Tucker Carlson.

---

xp1337 posted...

gabbard, greenwald

i was sounding the alarm on them in this topic over a year before each went mask off. a prophet is never recognized in their own time.

Same on calling both forever ago, so ^5 for political prophesying abilities.

Also reminder that Tulsi literally made a PragerU video. Even Glenn is...currently above that.

Addendum: Jimmy Dore still makes both of them look like bastions of reason.

---

An actual Rush Limbaugh quote:

We're running out of time, folks. We've got 10 days until the Electoral College assembles and votes. State officials will certify officially the votes, and the states will then choose the electors to vote in accordance with their state totals. So in enough of these five disputed states and those states remain Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Wisconsin, and Georgia either a judge will have to throw out the vote and order recounts, or the state legislatures are going to have to step in and pick new electors. And of course, folks, one of the big challenges you know, I don't want anybody to misunderstand me here. It's getting harder and harder. Can I have the attention of mainstream media, this is a pull quote, you're going to love this quote from me. Mainstream media, stop what you're doing, here comes the pull quote. Ready? Three, two, one. As a conservative, it's getting harder and harder to not look like a kook.

The unintentionally self-aware realization.

---

StartTheMachine posted...

Same on calling both forever ago, so ^5 for political prophesying abilities.

Also reminder that Tulsi literally made a PragerU video. Even Glenn is...currently above that.

Addendum: Jimmy Dore still makes both of them look like bastions of reason.

what did jimmy dore say/do that's so terrible? hard to imagine something worse than making a prageru video.

---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

what did jimmy dore say/do that's so terrible? hard to imagine something worse than making a prageru video.

There is an endless supply of moronic things to choose from, but let's go with promoting the Hillary Clinton had Seth Rich murdered conspiracy theory.

His audience is mostly right-wingers now for a reason.

---

For all the talk about Republican politicians having better slogans, it's quite the opposite for slogans made by the general populace.

#StopTheLeftPurge is "trending", and is exclusively right wingers talking about how liberals are yelling on the tag about how one of theirs got suspended, and the hashtag contains...literally nobody doing so. It's JUST them saying the tag is full of liberals complaining with no actual leftists in it.


---

Lasa, I highly recommend typing "Jimmy Dore Tucker Carlson" into YouTube and enjoying the ride. The guy is his biggest sycophant.

https://youtu.be/unltD5gzd9I

I was initially going to isolate that video for its title alone, but it turns out it's not an outstanding example in any way.

---

UshiromiyaEva posted...

For all the talk about Republican politicians having better slogans, it's quite the opposite for slogans made by the general populace.

#StopTheLeftPurge is "trending", and is exclusively right wingers talking about how liberals are yelling on the tag about how one of theirs got suspended, and the hashtag contains...literally nobody doing so. It's JUST them saying the tag is full of liberals complaining with no actual leftists in it.

Well I'm glad you said that because that was my immediate impression after a minute or two of scrolling and like hell I was sticking around there to dig deeper into it

---

It is projection of the HIGHEST degree.

Which can honestly be said about the entire concept of "Snowflake Culture". When the cards are looking down, the left gets internally angry and tries to project it through sympathy and reaching out, while the right internally cries and whines, and tries to hide it with fury and indignation.

---

StartTheMachine posted...

Lasa, I highly recommend typing "Jimmy Dore Tucker Carlson" into YouTube and enjoying the ride. The guy is his biggest sycophant.

https://youtu.be/unltD5gzd9I

I was initially going to isolate that video for its title alone, but it turns out it's not an outstanding example in any way.

ok, i'll watch that later. but yeah, promoting the seth rich conspiracy theory is unforgivably stupid.

(i'm not a jimmy dore fan, for the record. was just curious!)

---

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Well I'm glad you said that because that was my immediate impression after a minute or two of scrolling and like hell I was sticking around there to dig deeper into it

it's mockery.
that's about it.
couple lefty accounts got banned, complained, cue the mockery at enough volumes that it hit trending.

---

I've received a frankly shocking amount of outreach from campaigns supporting Warnock and Ossof via texting and calls, even leaving voicemail at this point that are just saying how important it is to vote in the runoffs (literally none of these have asked for donations or anything like it).

I'm torn between the impressive push and how much I'm not the person they need to be putting this kind of effort into.


---

https://www.sfgate.com/news/amp/House-votes-to-decriminalize-marijuana-at-federal-15776357.php

---

Omg

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1335259587373649922?s=21

---

In for the sex tape.

---

StartTheMachine posted...

Same on calling both forever ago, so ^5 for political prophesying abilities.

Also reminder that Tulsi literally made a PragerU video. Even Glenn is...currently above that.

Addendum: Jimmy Dore still makes both of them look like bastions of reason.

i am no fan of tulsi but i want to correct the record - that prageru video was ripped from footage she released on her own. she clearly doesn't have a problem with them using it (and might even be getting paid for it, probably) but I don't believe it is accurate to say "she made a prageru video"

she made a video and prageru slapped its logo on it after the fact

edit: on the subject of political pundit prophesying, i called the rising out for being a grift/op to keep vulnerable people from actually getting radicalized to the left back in the primaries when they were still getting all the good will from bernie supporters. not sure how anyone ever took that show seriously (myself included, even when my instinct was telling me it was a grift)


---

Why must we go digging for unrelated embarrassing shit about these people to try and discredit them? Thats what cops do. Isnt their laughable testimony enough?
---

Jakyl25 posted...

Why must we go digging for unrelated embarrassing shit about these people to try and discredit them? Thats what cops do. Isnt their laughable testimony enough?

Making a sex tape is fine. Sending it to your husbands ex is worthy of scorn.

---

Jakyl25 posted...

Why must we go digging for unrelated embarrassing shit about these people to try and discredit them? Thats what cops do. Isnt their laughable testimony enough?

I think there's a fundamental difference from "this guy once smoked weed so he deserved to die" and "this lady was sexually harassing another woman very recently and was trying to use 'the cyber' to claim it wasn't her."

---

It's truly shocking that there isn't a single person on Rudy's team that works betting. This KEEP HAPPENING.

Jakyl25 posted...

Why must we go digging for unrelated embarrassing shit about these people to try and discredit them? Thats what cops do. Isnt their laughable testimony enough?

The thing of note is digital fraud attempt charge, not the obscenity charge. It's literally directly related to what she's appearing as a witness for.

---

And people dug up that guy as a Ghostbuster or whatever to laugh at him
---

I won this topic. BY A LOT.

---