Poll of the Day > I have to write a short response paper about death, meaning, and the journey

(+) Yeah! (+)

I read the book Tuesdays With Morrie which was really good. I recommend it and it is a very short read. I read it in only two sittings, but it could probably be read in one if you wanted. Death has always been an interesting topic to me. I think most people have a bit of death anxiety and a lot would rather not even talk about death. At the same time, the fact that life is finite is what makes it that much more meaningful. I always think of this line from a music artist I like which says something like: time is an angel that heals all wounds while it strangles you. Anyone got any thoughts on death?

I covet existence and will take anything to live forever, even if only as some weird abstract...

Even if all I am is some sort of Great Witness.

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I ruminate on death a lot. One of my philosophy courses was completely centered on death.

The American Way of Death by Jessica Mitford is a good read. Not necessarily super profound, but it exemplifies how American funeral practices are fairly obscene.

Lokarin posted...

I covet existence and will take anything to live forever, even if only as some weird abstract...

Even if all I am is some sort of Great Witness.

Sounds like you take a more passive stance of receiving life's meaning rather than creating it yourself. Is that true? I think of meaning as more of an individual and social construct more than some objective truth.

JigsawTDC posted...

I ruminate on death a lot. One of my philosophy courses was completely centered on death.

The American Way of Death by Jessica Mitford is a good read. Not necessarily super profound, but it exemplifies how American funeral practices are fairly obscene.

I always thought it was interesting how societies view the body and death. Like how and why did burying bodies become the norm? Seems more practical to cremate especially if eventually we have to worry about having enough space for the dead and living. The outrage that comes with desecrating someone's dead body is also interesting. Why does that author think American funeral practices are obscene in particular?

We read Tuesdays with Morrie in 9th grade. I have nothing else to add.

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Jen0125 posted...

We read Tuesdays with Morrie in 9th grade. I have nothing else to add.

Not even whether you liked the book or not?

Do you ever take the year you're born, and since you're an optimist, you add 80 to it and estimate that's about around the year you'll die?

And do you ever take the difference between that year and the ages of your parents when you were conceived to estimate the time you'll probably grieve the loss of your parents?

And when you look at your SO are you reminded of the age difference between you meaning that's roughly the amount of time one of you would be widowed and think, "That's gonna be an awful 2 years."?

And do you ever consider before adopting a pet that in 15-20 years, they won't be around anymore and you don't know if you could handle it then but backing out of adoption now could spare you heartache later but despite that go through with the adoption anyway because the trade-off would be worth it and your ability to resist a cute fluffball is non-existent?

Yeah, me neither. I absolutely never think about that.

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GunslingerGunsl posted...

The outrage that comes with desecrating someone's dead body is also interesting. Why does that author think American funeral practices are obscene in particular?

The process has become over-sentimentalized and over-commercialized to the point that funeral directors take advantage of people's grieving and exploit them by charging ridiculous prices for their services. We've turned death into a commodity, complete with a pretty, formaldehyde-infused corpse to present. You're paying for a product you don't need because our society's culture has deemed that this is how it must be done.

SpeedDemon20 posted...

Do you ever take the year you're born, and since you're an optimist, you add 80 to it and estimate that's about around the year you'll die?

And do you ever take the difference between that year and the ages of your parents when you were conceived to estimate the time you'll probably grieve the loss of your parents?

And when you look at your SO are you reminded of the age difference between you meaning that's roughly the amount of time one of you would be widowed and think, "That's gonna be an awful 2 years."?

And do you ever consider before adopting a pet that in 15-20 years, they won't be around anymore and you don't know if you could handle it then but backing out of adoption now could spare you heartache later but despite that go through with the adoption anyway because the trade-off would be worth it and your ability to resist a cute fluffball is non-existent?

Yeah, me neither. I absolutely never think about that.

I never think of those things, but if I did... I'd probably say that I'd be 80 in the year 2069 though I'm expecting to live a good amount past 80. I just hope that I am able to live comfortably and without too many health problems. My parents are pretty young so I probably won't have to worry about grieving their loss for at least another 30 or so years. Either way, thinking of their death makes me want to spend more time with them. My girlfriend is a couple years younger than me and the fact that males usually die sooner, I probably won't have to grieve her loss. I have also already had a dog that died after 16 years, so I'm accustomed to mourning the loss of a pet. It is much better having had one than not having one though.

JigsawTDC posted...

The process has become over-sentimentalized and over-commercialized to the point that funeral directors take advantage of people's grieving and exploit them by charging ridiculous prices for their services. We've turned death into a commodity, complete with a pretty, formaldehyde-infused corpse to present. You're paying for a product you don't need because our society's culture has deemed that this is how it must be done.

I can actually completely understand that view. I think it's common knowledge that it cost a lot to die. That is just sad to think about. Who wants to be a burden on the family they leave behind? I'd rather my family mourn my loss without the anxiety of paying off a bill, so that they can easily transition into celebrating my life. I think life should be celebrated as much as loss should be grieved. Money ruins everything.

GunslingerGunsl posted...

Sounds like you take a more passive stance of receiving life's meaning rather than creating it yourself. Is that true? I think of meaning as more of an individual and social construct more than some objective truth.

I find life itself to be without meaning, yet incredibly interesting.

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Lokarin posted...

I find life itself to be without meaning, yet incredibly interesting.

Personally I don't think a meaningless existence and a desire to live are compatible views. Although, it is most likely just because we aren't using the same definition of meaning. In your case, if you think there are things of interest in life, then you continue to live because you want to explore those things. Those things become your purpose and will to live. There is some underlying meaning to life that is constructed in anyone who wants to live.

I guess I mean without objective meaning, then.

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GunslingerGunsl posted...

I never think of those things, but if I did... I'd probably say that I'd be 80 in the year 2069 though I'm expecting to live a good amount past 80. I just hope that I am able to live comfortably and without too many health problems. My parents are pretty young so I probably won't have to worry about grieving their loss for at least another 30 or so years. Either way, thinking of their death makes me want to spend more time with them. My girlfriend is a couple years younger than me and the fact that males usually die sooner, I probably won't have to grieve her loss. I have also already had a dog that died after 16 years, so I'm accustomed to mourning the loss of a pet. It is much better having had one than not having one though.

Me too. I absolutely never think about that stuff! I only have one grandparent left. None of them made it to 80.

For me, I think about knowledge a lot and how much of it is lost when someone dies. I think it's important we pass on as much as we can. Written language is the closest we can get to transcending death. You can read the stories, experiences, thoughts, and knowledge of people long gone.

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SpeedDemon20 posted...

Me too. I absolutely never think about that stuff! I only have one grandparent left. None of them made it to 80.

For me, I think about knowledge a lot and how much of it is lost when someone dies. I think it's important we pass on as much as we can. Written language is the closest we can get to transcending death. You can read the stories, experiences, thoughts, and knowledge of people long gone.

You don't believe in an afterlife? I think I've more-so heard about how people fear death more than anything, but honestly the concept of an eternal life after death seems just as scary to me. Can you imagine what it would be like to live forever? I mean, if people end up finding peace with dying which many do, doesn't that imply that there should be an end? What happens when one goes on for too long? Boredom? Insanity? If anything, maybe reincarnation is more ideal. lol.

I watched the movie. It was alright.

GunslingerGunsl posted...

At the same time, the fact that life is finite is what makes it that much more meaningful.

Or it makes it meaningless, because anything you do ultimately won't matter in the long run and eventually you'll be forgotten. There's relatively little value in something being finite. Any perception that a finite status adds value of any kind is really just a post-hoc rationalization because the reality is rather cruel and depressing.

GunslingerGunsl posted...

I always think of this line from a music artist I like which says something like: time is an angel that heals all wounds while it strangles you.

I think of the poem "Ozymandias" by Shelley

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46565/ozymandias

I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who saidTwo vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

It's a bit longer than your selected verse, but it really can't easily boiled down without losing the impact.

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GunslingerGunsl posted...

You don't believe in an afterlife? I think I've more-so heard about how people fear death more than anything, but honestly the concept of an eternal life after death seems just as scary to me.

Nope. It'd be cool, but I don't have any reason to believe there would be an afterlife. I imagine there'd be like one streaming service and since everyone is free to not work, there'd be some stellar art. Imagine all the musicians still writing music. Or maybe they got bored with that and are doing something else.

GunslingerGunsl posted...

Can you imagine what it would be like to live forever? I mean, if people end up finding peace with dying which many do, doesn't that imply that there should be an end? What happens when one goes on for too long? Boredom? Insanity? If anything, maybe reincarnation is more ideal. lol.

People have a hard time imagining what could happen in five years, so forever is incredibly hard to imagine. That's why I don't understand arguments against immortality who make the point that humanity would be wiped out, you'd be alone, and go crazy... until that ends!

If I were immortal, I'd go to the north pole and build a really big igloo pyramid. Once that was done, I'd demote Mt. Everest to second highest mountain. Then I'd come for the Mariana Trench. Maybe that means I'm already crazy.

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Zeus posted...

I watched the movie. It was alright.

Or it makes it meaningless, because anything you do ultimately won't matter in the long run and eventually you'll be forgotten. There's relatively little value in something being finite. Any perception that a finite status adds value of any kind is really just a post-hoc rationalization because the reality is rather cruel and depressing.

I think of the poem "Ozymandias" by Shelley

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46565/ozymandias

I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who saidTwo vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

It's a bit longer than your selected verse, but it really can't easily boiled down without losing the impact.

I didn't even know there was a movie. I don't have any interest in seeing it because I don't think it can do the book justice. I guess it all comes down to the perspective that you take. One can look at the finiteness of something and see it as a reason to appreciate it while you have the chance, and then one can take a more cynical approach and say that there is ultimately no meaning because we all end up in the same spot in the end; dead. I don't think either perspective is objectively wrong or right. To me it's more about what worldview is more useful or practical. If we can't prove objective truth, then why not choose to believe in the beauty of the short lives we are given?

Zeus posted...

I think of the poem "Ozymandias" by Shelley

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46565/ozymandias

I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who saidTwo vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

It's a bit longer than your selected verse, but it really can't easily boiled down without losing the impact.

Read by Bryan Cranston!
https://youtu.be/T3dpghfRBHE

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SpeedDemon20 posted...

Nope. It'd be cool, but I don't have any reason to believe there would be an afterlife. I imagine there'd be like one streaming service and since everyone is free to not work, there'd be some stellar art. Imagine all the musicians still writing music. Or maybe they got bored with that and are doing something else.

People have a hard time imagining what could happen in five years, so forever is incredibly hard to imagine. That's why I don't understand arguments against immortality who make the point that humanity would be wiped out, you'd be alone, and go crazy... until that ends!

If I were immortal, I'd go to the north pole and build a really big igloo pyramid. Once that was done, I'd demote Mt. Everest to second highest mountain. Then I'd come for the Mariana Trench. Maybe that means I'm already crazy.

Hahaha. Definitely some unique aspirations. I'd probably just try to live as many different types of lifestyles as I could. It would be weird to outlive loved ones and eventually start new families. Almost like I'm betraying my first wife/family.

GunslingerGunsl posted...

Hahaha. Definitely some unique aspirations.

Mt. Everest has had its time. All hail K2!

GunslingerGunsl posted...

I'd probably just try to live as many different types of lifestyles as I could. It would be weird to outlive loved ones and eventually start new families. Almost like I'm betraying my first wife/family.

It's never happening to me, but I l think about that a lot, but moreso in our finite lifespan. Like how does someone move on when they've lost someone important so early on? Is it okay to move on and still think about them? Will the new SO understand? Would the new SO feel like they're competing with a ghost?

I blame Aerith.

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GunslingerGunsl posted...

Anyone got any thoughts on death?

I have no issue talking about it but I fear my own death more than anything in life even if I know it's futile and pointless. I believe we go back to where we existed before we were born and that's simply not existing. If you've ever been put to sleep you've probably got a taste of what death is like. I wish I believed in a afterlife. This would make the death of myself and my loved ones more 'easy' to bare. Sadly I can't.


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Societies fear of death is big money business.

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SpeedDemon20 posted...

People have a hard time imagining what could happen in five years, so forever is incredibly hard to imagine. That's why I don't understand arguments against immortality who make the point that humanity would be wiped out, you'd be alone, and go crazy... until that ends!

The underlying problem with the argument of humanity being wiped out is that if one person is becoming immortal, surely others will as well. It's probably not just going to be one bored dude. =p


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Zeus posted...

The underlying problem with the argument of humanity being wiped out is that if one person is becoming immortal, surely others will as well. It's probably not just going to be one bored dude. =p

Why would it follow that if one person gets immortality, that others will? Lol. I guess that would be the best possible case though.

GunslingerGunsl posted...

Why would it follow that if one person gets immortality, that others will? Lol. I guess that would be the best possible case though.

Logically any means that could make one person immortality would be accessible to or discoverable by others.

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Zeus posted...

The underlying problem with the argument of humanity being wiped out is that if one person is becoming immortal, surely others will as well. It's probably not just going to be one bored dude. =p

I dunno Zeus. Did all of humanity learn to make fire from Prometheus?

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Death sucks mainly for the ones who are left behind. People are (usually) social animals and come up with ideas and beliefs to cope with the loss of someone. If it makes one feel better to think that youll see them again later, its a good way of dealing with the truth of mortality.

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Zeus posted...

Logically any means that could make one person immortality would be accessible to or discoverable by others.

Since it was a hypothetical situation, I had imagined the person who was immortal was that way through some magical means, not based in any real world logic.

Fierce_Deity_08 posted...

Death sucks mainly for the ones who are left behind. People are (usually) social animals and come up with ideas and beliefs to cope with the loss of someone. If it makes one feel better to think that youll see them again later, its a good way of dealing with the truth of mortality.

So you think religion/afterlife is just something people created as a way to cope with the fear of death and loss?

GunslingerGunsl posted...

So you think religion/afterlife is just something people created as a way to cope with the fear of death and loss?

It could be. Also probably a way to cope with any hardships they had in life. Believing there is a better place waiting if youre living in a really bad area and/or dont have much to live for could help someone feel better.

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Fierce_Deity_08 posted...

It could be. Also probably a way to cope with any hardships they had in life. Believing there is a better place waiting if youre living in a really bad area and/or dont have much to live for could help someone feel better.

We don't hold funerals for the dead, we hold them for the living.

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LuciferSage posted...

We don't hold funerals for the dead, we hold them for the living.

I'd say that there are aspects of funerals meant both for the dead and for the living. It differs from culture to culture.

GunslingerGunsl posted...

I'd say that there are aspects of funerals meant both for the dead and for the living. It differs from culture to culture.

Really? Of what benefit is it to the deceased then?

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LuciferSage posted...

Really? Of what benefit is it to the deceased then?

Well some cultures believe that the dead take material items that you bury then with to the afterlife. That's just one example.

GunslingerGunsl posted...

Well some cultures believe that the dead take material items that you bury then with to the afterlife. That's just one example.

The ancient Egyptians? What year is it?

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LuciferSage posted...

The ancient Egyptians? What year is it?

Okay, well if you want a more recent example. In my culture, Dia De Los Muertos is meant to celebrate the dead because it's believed that the dead do not want us to mourn, and they want to celebrate with us.

https://www.nationalgeographic.org/media/dia-de-los-muertos/print/

GunslingerGunsl posted...

Okay, well if you want a more recent example. In my culture, Dia De Los Muertos is meant to celebrate the dead because it's believed that the dead do not want us to mourn, and they want to celebrate with us.

https://www.nationalgeographic.org/media/dia-de-los-muertos/print/

When was the last time you saw a dead man dancing?

I rest my case.

Sugar skulls are beautiful pieces of art and all, but they're made by the living for the living no matter how you spin it.

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LuciferSage posted...

When was the last time you saw a dead man dancing?

I rest my case.

Sugar skulls are beautiful pieces of art and all, but they're made by the living for the living no matter how you spin it.

I mean, I'm really just responding to how you claimed that funerals aren't held for dead in any way whatsoever. If someone truly believes that life goes on after death, then to those people funerals are meant to honor the dead. Im not saying that the living don't get something out of it too. Maybe you're just saying that the cultural beliefs themselves are wrong and that funerals only impact the living, in which case I can't really argue with that because it's just a difference of belief. *shrug* I'm not even necessarily saying I believe it myself, but people definitely do. There's no way in hell that I'm going to convince you that the dead actually benefit. Lol. I think we can agree that the intention of those who hold these beliefs is that they are partly for the dead, even if their religious/cultural beliefs end up being objectively wrong in the grand scheme of things.