Current Events > I don't agree with the people who say "Everybody should vote"...

(+) Yeah! (+)

Voting in America in the past used to be restricted exclusively to male land owners. If you didn't own land, regardless of race or sex, you didn't get to vote. After all, you didn't own land, so what value did you have?

But, through democratic process, that was changed over time to where anyone can vote. Even women, as the 19th amendment says. Though I could see you lot wanting to eradicate all of that, replacing the land ownership requirement with being able to ace a Rick & Morty trivia test, hahahahahahahaha

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andel posted...

joenumbers seems like someone likely to vote for trump

Where do you get that idea?

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Twelf posted...

You can have an informed perspective and not like either option.

Yes you can. And you can also vote 3rd party and write-in in such a scenario.

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Frolex posted...

Your belief that religion is a parallel to democracy at least helps explain your support for a return to literacy tests for voting.

Oh, would you like to keep it on-topic?

"You should vote."
"I don't know anything about politics. I'm just as likely to vote for someone who'd move this country forward, as I am to vote for someone who'd set us back tremendously. It'd be a complete roll of the dice, and if voting is truly as important as everyone claims it is, it'd also be incredibly irresponsible of me to do."
"You should become more informed one day. Till then, vote anyway."

Also, nice blatant strawman in saying I'd like to return to literacy tests for voting. I know you stopped arguing in good faith a long time ago, but jeez.

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the0rebirth posted...

Oh, would you like to keep it on-topic?

"You should vote."
"I don't know anything about politics. I'm just as likely to vote for someone who'd move this country forward, as I am to vote for someone who'd set us back tremendously. It'd be a complete roll of the dice, and if voting is truly as important as everyone claims it is, it'd also be incredibly irresponsible of me to do."
"You should become better informed one day. Till then, vote anyway."

Yes.


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Tyranthraxus posted...

Yes.

I see. Voting is so serious that you should do it even if you don't take it seriously. Man, the power level of that logic made my scouter break.

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the0rebirth posted...

I see. Voting is so serious that you should do it even if you don't take it seriously. Man, the power level of that logic made my scouter break.

Yes, exactly.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

Yes, exactly.

Amazing. Are there any other serious processes that one ought to partake in, even if they don't take it seriously? Surely voting can't be the only one.

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the0rebirth posted...

I see. Voting is so serious that you should do it even if you don't take it seriously. Man, the power level of that logic made my scouter break.

An informed voter base and universal participation in democracy are neither mutually exclusive or inclusive. you only want one of these things and can't accept that other people might not only want one. we already know it's too much for you to understand, you don't need to tell us.

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the0rebirth posted...

Amazing. Are there any other serious processes that one ought to partake in, even if they don't take it seriously? Surely voting can't be the only one.

Probably. I'm not the keeper of such a list.

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Wow, Frolex is a pretty big lost cause in this topic and it looks like Tyranthraxus might be looking to join.

To put the statement simply:
Democracy is about representing the will of the people. If you have no interest in the election and are knowingly completely 100% ignorant, your vote cannot represent your will because you have no sense which vote supports policies you would prefer.

It's the same way the number that shows up when I roll a dice does not represent my will. If somebody is completely ignorant, they cannot make an informed choice, and if they cannot make an informed choice then they cannot make a vote that in any way "represents" them. And so, while they still have the right to vote, there is no need to encourage them to vote if they aren't planning on it. Since their vote is at best random, and at worst hijacked by the most convincing bad actors.

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Frolex posted...

An informed voter base and universal participation in democracy are neither mutually exclusive or inclusive. you only want one of these things and can't accept that other people might not only want one. we already know it's too much for you to understand, you don't need to tell us.

You're so consistently good at saying a whole lotta nothing.
People shouldn't vote from a place of ignorance. Period.


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joe40001 posted...

Since their vote is at best random, and at worst hijacked by the most convincing bad actors.

How is this worse than someone who is deliberately voting for the most malicious candidate?

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joe40001 posted...

Wow, Frolex is a pretty big lost cause in this topic and it looks like Tyranthraxus might be looking to join.

To put the statement simply:
Democracy is about representing the will of the people. If you have no interest in the election and are knowingly completely 100% ignorant, your vote cannot represent your will because you have no sense which vote supports policies you would prefer.

It's the same way the number that shows up when I roll a dice does not represent my will. If somebody is completely ignorant, they cannot make an informed choice, and if they cannot make an informed choice then they cannot make a vote that in any way "represents" them. And so, while they still have the right to vote, there is no need to encourage them to vote if they aren't planning on it. Since their vote is at best random, and at worst hijacked by the most convincing bad actors.

The democratic process doesn't decide who's vote is more informed or who was convinced by bad actors. You think people are underinfomed? great, now you have all the more incentive to sway them to your side. if you want to bring about political change by selecting who gets out to the polls, you don't want democracy. end of.

the0rebirth posted...

You're so consistently good at saying a whole lotta nothing.

it's more a lack of comprehension on your part

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Blightzkrieg posted...

I don't think abstaining is an issue, but you should at least vote.

I'm a firm believer in abstaining from elections I know nothing about. For instance, I don't vote in the school board elections.

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No one can provide a clear-cut logical answer as to why someone who's uninformed/under-educated on politics should still feel compelled to vote. Then again, it's hard to refute such a reasonable position.

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the0rebirth posted...

No one can provide a clear-cut logical answer as to why someone who's uninformed/under-educated on politics should still feel compelled to vote. Then again, it's hard to refute such a reasonable position.

Because they are obligated to vote as the citizen of a democracy.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

Because they are obligated to vote as the citizen of a democracy.

T_T
This is obviously untrue. You don't have to vote.

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the0rebirth posted...

No one can provide a clear-cut logical answer as to why someone who's uninformed/under-educated on politics should still feel compelled to vote. Then again, it's hard to refute such a reasonable position.

it's not about whether an individual should feel compelled to vote, it's about democracy requiring the representation of the people they govern over to function as a democracy.

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the0rebirth posted...

T_T
This is obviously untrue. You don't have to vote.

You don't have to wipe your ass either

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Tyranthraxus posted...

How is this worse than someone who is deliberately voting for the most malicious candidate?

It's not, but few people vote willfully for malicious candidates.

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joe40001 posted...

It's not, but few people vote willfully for malicious candidates.

I roll the dice with no concern about my will, wallet or tomorrow, why not vote? lol


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