Board 8 > Danganronpa Spoiler Topic for All Games (SPOILERS)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mac Arrowny posted...

Kokichi also the worst character in the franchise

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The other bad characters mostly die early. Kokichi being a major character for five casesreally hurts him in terms of more screentime to dislike him with.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I would have enjoyed a future where V3 was basically the same setup, except Shuichi and Kaede were flipped. Shuichi was the standard protagonist you start as and who was in the marketing (very believable), and Kaede was instead the shocking protag. And she spends most of the rest of the game wearing his hat.

That's rad.
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MrSmartGuy posted...

I did a list so I could be part of the kool klub



Haven't played UDG and never will. Monaca and Makoto's sister ranks based solely off their DR3 appearances.

Oh, also they are in fact ordered within the tiers.

Why you gotta do this to my boy Juzo

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Kaede is the most proactive protag we get. It's refreshing and a bit of a downer that Shuichi doesn't follow up on that.

Kokichi is only really a major character for cases 4 and 5. There's a nice build-up to his eventually starring role.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I would have enjoyed a future where V3 was basically the same setup, except Shuichi and Kaede were flipped. Shuichi was the standard protagonist you start as and who was in the marketing (very believable), and Kaede was instead the shocking protag. And she spends most of the rest of the game wearing his hat.

OH WAIT THAT'S JUST THAT ONE RAD FANFIC I READ

How do I travel to the alternate universe where this is a reality

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Nanis23 posted...

How do I travel to the alternate universe where this is a reality

https://archiveofourown.org/works/10517349/chapters/23213121


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Because Juzo's entire story arc is oh no I have a gay crush and this getting out would ruin my life, better let the entire fucking world end. Maybe afterwards, I'll learn my lesson and be more reasonab- nah fuck that I'm just gonna punch all my problems away, that sounds better.

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That defeats the point of 3-1. Its not just that there was a protagonist switch - it was set up specifically so that people would immediately attach to Kaede as the first female protagonist in the series who is outgoing and has a waifubait design. People don't attach to guy characters nearly as quickly, and people wouldn't have cared nearly as much if Shuichi - a reserved male protagonist - died first.

It was expertly designed to hurt the player. That's what V3 does best. It's why it's the best game in the series.

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MrSmartGuy posted...

Because Juzo's entire story arc is oh no I have a gay crush and this getting out would ruin my life, better let the entire fucking world end. Maybe afterwards, I'll learn my lesson and be more reasonab- nah fuck that I'm just gonna punch all my problems away, that sounds better.

I mean

You're not wrong

But he's my boy

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Well, sure. That's part of why case 3-1 is great. And it's also part of why 3-2, 3-3, 3-4, and 3-5 are all bad.
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Juzo? That guy who goes on and on about ultimates > everyone else to the point where it almost feels like a metaphor for racism? That Juzo?

3-5 is NOT bad. It's a top three case in the franchise, alongside 2-5 and 1-4.

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KamikazePotato posted...

That defeats the point of 3-1. Its not just that there was a protagonist switch - it was set up specifically so that people would immediately attach to Kaede as the first female protagonist in the series who is outgoing and has a waifubait design. People don't attach to guy characters nearly as quickly, and people wouldn't have cared nearly as much if Shuichi - a reserved male protagonist - died first.

It was expertly designed to hurt the player. That's what V3 does best. It's why it's the best game in the series.

You're completely correct, I know fundamentally that this was absolutely the way it had to go no matter how much I like Kaede, and was the whole point. The game is probably better in the long run for it too.

But that fanfic is still really good.

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https://i.imgur.com/nk42yyD.png

Not in order within tiers.

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Mac Arrowny posted...

Well, sure. That's part of why case 3-1 is great. And it's also part of why 3-2, 3-3, 3-4, and 3-5 are all bad.

More NUCLEAR takes.

Inviso posted...

3-5 is NOT bad. It's a top three case in the franchise, alongside 2-5 and 1-4.

This however is on point.

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3-4 and 3-5 are fantastic

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I would say my stance on 3-5 and 3-6 can be pretty easily summarized into this: I've only played V3 through start to finish 1 time, which I plan to correct soon. However, I've specifically played 3-5 twice, and 3-6...5 times.

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For the record, "The killer is Gonta" is probably the best-executed line in the series, barely beating out Fuyuhiko's "Don't leave me"

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KamikazePotato posted...

For the record, "The killer is Gonta" is probably the best-executed line in the series, barely beating out Fuyuhiko's "Don't leave me"

That one twist does not make up for a long, drawn out, and boring school life section, followed by a convoluted and stupid murder investigation. I hate 3-4.

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KamikazePotato posted...

"The killer is Gonta"

It terms of scenes and revelations not tied to the final 2 cases plotsplosions of each game, this is probably my favorite moment in all of DR.

EVERYTHING about the last chunk of 3-4 crushes my fucking soul.

There is no moment more potent than when Shuichi says he's going to explain how everything went down, and Gonta just sniffs back tears, "Oh...kay..."

I can't imagine any other DR protag in that set of moments other than Shuichi as well.

Man, I'm just getting chills right now thinking about it.

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Mostly everything about V3 is just depressing as hell...which for a series that focuses so much on despair, I never really thought of DR1 and DR2 as despair inducing but V3, man. Probably why I still think about it a lot months after playing it.

V3 is what I would consider the "darkest" danganronpa. Lots of real bad feels throughout, and sticks with me the most. With UDG you had a lot of really cheap, obvious attempts to be edgy, mostly with casual pedophilia.

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Oh hey, since I did characters and now we're on cases, let's do cases.

2-5 > 3-1 > 2-6 > 3-5 > 3-4 > 1-4 > 2-1 > 3-6 > 2-4 > 1-1 > 1-5/1-6 > 2-2 > 3-2 > 3-3 > 1-2 > 2-3 > 1-3

2-5 is my favorite mystery case in all of video games. Absolutely flawless.

3-1 is super close. The lines "I dropped everything I was holding" and "I put everything I was carrying in my backpack" are perfect.

2-6 is complete anime absurdity and I'm all for it. I don't care if it doesn't make any sense.

3-6 has my favorite twist in the entire series, but HOLY SHIT does this trial drag on and on and on....

3-3 has, I would assert, the best pre-trial buildup in the entire series. But not only does it not capitalize on a single plot device the game set up, it proceeds to completely forget that any of them even happened in the first place for the rest of the game.

1-2 is really boring up until the "same blue track suit" slip-up. Then it's fine.

Where 2-5 is my favorite mystery in all of video games, 1-3 is my absolute least favorite. Congratulations on committing a murder that literally only you could've pulled off, Celeste.

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Would probably rank the final case as the best case in each game.

For 2-5 I was irrationally irritated by them not making the "is it really suicide if you kill someone with a trap" type argument (reversed in this case) even if Monokuma were to just say "yes". Playing it while I wasn't as fluent in Japanese probably hurt in some ways too.
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MysteriousStan posted...

Mostly everything about V3 is just depressing as hell...which for a series that focuses so much on despair, I never really thought of DR1 and DR2 as despair inducing but V3, man. Probably why I still think about it a lot months after playing it.

Kokichi "ruining your fun" in 3-4 and having to prove that it really was Gonta was so soul crushing and depressing, even as someone who's typically extremely resistant to that sort of stuff. For all of DR's themeing it was probably the one time the series made me feel legit despair.

For these and other meta reasons I still say DR2 is my "favorite Danganronpa" since it's more in line with what the series typically is and is much more replayable for it, but V3 has a strong claim to easily being the best VN of the bunch overall.

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https://gyazo.com/d17ca56dcc4c6fbd39899ba772b6fc36

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Monokuma flat-out says at one point that the blackened in the case is the one who threw the grenade that poisoned Nagito.

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How does everyone feel about Angie?

I know she's typically hated by a lot of people while playing, but I also feel like it's pretty common for people to turn around on her some in retrospect.

Also I think her design is just fantastic.

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2-5 loses out to 3-1 for me because while Nagito's RNG murder gambit is absolutely fucking genius, that's really all the case is, and it's very short and straightforward besides. 3-1 has much more going on in addition to the switcheroo.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

How does everyone feel about Angie?

I know she's typically hated by a lot of people while playing, but I also feel like it's pretty common for people to turn around on her some in retrospect.

Also I think her design is just fantastic.

Angie is an amazing villain, and the biggest flaw with 3-3 is the fact that her student council didn't amount to more.

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Angie is easily my least favorite character as a person, even after sitting and thinking on it for a while. Someone who uses religion to manipulate people into doing their bidding and to strongarm others into getting what they want combines a lot of personality traits that I absolutely despise.

But story-wise, she carries a single chapter in the game like only Nagito has ever done in the whole series, and I have to give her credit for that.

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Yeah she's a great villain. Still don't really like here all that much.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

How does everyone feel about Angie?

I know she's typically hated by a lot of people while playing, but I also feel like it's pretty common for people to turn around on her some in retrospect.

Also I think her design is just fantastic.

I hated her to begin with and it's gotten even worse since I realized she's basically the Trump of DR.

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StealThisSheen posted...

I hated her to begin with and it's gotten even worse since I realized she's basically the Trump of DR.

If only.

(Not serious, FBI)

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StealThisSheen posted...

I realized she's basically the Trump of DR.

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Angie has excellent theming, too bad her death had literally nothing to do with any of the tension surrounding her or the necronomicon and was instead sacrificed for

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Danganronpa...struggles with its Case 3s.

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Man, I hated 2-3's ending so much at first. It's nice that it makes sense in retrospect, but killing because of "despair disease" felt like such an asspull at the time. I don't think it was worth it.
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I understood what was going on through all of Case 3 due to being previously spoiled on the general plot twist of DR2 and still didn't think it was worth it!

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Yes, it's a very strange one because retrospect can only take you so far. At the time, while playing, it....sucked...and Ibuki was dead...and I was so mad.

My roomate who doesn't play these games was watching this trial and got real upset himself...because he liked Mikan <_<

And really it's not saved THAT much, Mikan's induction into despair was the only one that got any true attention in DR3, but it's still part of that same cheap nonsense they ended that show with. The ambiguous ending in DR2 about how each member of the class was systematically buried into despair through personal attacks was...swapped out for mass hypnosis brainwashing. Despair arc is so bad.

I'm sure it's not what Kodaka wanted, he was likely limited by the episode count and network limitations in a way that just wasn't gonna work out. Not like they're actually going to show someone raping a dead corpse on a network televised anime.

At the very least, would have much preferred the entire show had just been despair arc, then we could have gotten into an closer adaptation of how those events were supposed to unfold originally. Future Arc is the better arc but I also don't care.

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https://youtu.be/7dq5UT4WImE

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Also this...just in case anyone still hasn't seen it.

https://youtu.be/EX8OBSuZmpA

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I would have enjoyed a future where V3 was basically the same setup, except Shuichi and Kaede were flipped. Shuichi was the standard protagonist you start as and who was in the marketing (very believable), and Kaede was instead the shocking protag. And she spends most of the rest of the game wearing his hat.

This sounds amazing. (In hindsight, as someone who would have preferred keeping Kaede. And yes, I saw the link.)

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That's fics really good dammit!

I know fanfic is the butt of a lot of jokes, but when you've got a winner you've got a winner. grayimperia actually has a lot of good DR fics in particular.

And I have read, like...at least a 3rd of the DR2 and V3 fics on AO3, so I know the good from the garbage at the very least.

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I assume that from this point on, we're going to do the MGS2 thing where someone steers the plot off-course, the main character discovers a shocking secret about himself, etc. I wouldn't even be surprised if we even get like "glitchy computer world falling apart" stuff just like MGS2, the parallels here are too obvious not to see.

spot on
i wonder, will he guess the V3 twist ahead of time? It's not impossible but its certainly a lot more out there

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DR2 I think kind of screwed up having the digital fuzz at the very front of the game during the intro. It just makes the whole thing a bit too obvious.

V3 doesn't have that issue, not to mention they through enormous wrenches into predictions with the flashlights.

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I didn't figure it out, but then I've already explained that I prefer to enjoy the ride. Plus, my symbolism detector is completely busted.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Shuichi is easily the best protagonist in the series and I don't think it's close. Kaede may have had the potential to be better, but based on what we saw I'm not convinced. She came across as someone with no personality flaws whatsoever - which is great for someone you're supposed to immediately like who then hands the reins to someone else more interesting, but she would have gotten boring over the course of a whole game. Unless you're basing it solely on character design I'd say that 'objectively' she might actually be the worst one, although her role in one of the best cases in the entire series elevates her.

Kaede's lack of flaws would have actually made for a pretty interesting story in its own right, because you could have totally written the game to slowly eat away at her confidence with each murder. Cases 2-4 would proceed mostly as they did, with Kaede feeling betrayed that Kirumi broke her promise/request. She could feel especially victimized by Kiyo, especially if it turns out Kiyo could have targeted Kaede and she lucks out of it, much like Himiko did in the existing V3-3. And then you don't need to change anything about Gonta, as that would leave her psyche hanging by a thread the way it was.

Then, imagine if Kokichi's unsolvable murder plot ends up being pretty close to 2-5, but with Kaede being the one who accidentally kills Kokichi, and THEN you do the protagonist swap after spending most of the game with Kaede. Imagine how badly that would wound the player.

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Mac Arrowny posted...

Eh, if you trust the prologue and take it at face value. Them actually being kidnapped would drop my opinion of the game a good bit. Them voluntarily participating is one of the best parts!

It would actually improve it for me, I dislike how that twist made all of their characters meaningless.