Current Events > Did the Pokemon anime ever again reach the heights of season 1?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I stopped watching sometime during Orange Islands, and I heard it continued to go downhill. But there are like a million episodes. Were there any later arcs that reached the heights of season 1? By that I mean from the beginning through the tournament.

The high points IIRC were episode 1, Magmar vs. Charizard, and the tournament.

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Johto Journeys through the end of the Silver Cup was excellent

Apparently Sun and Moon is amazing, though I can't stomach the art style (seriously, ash staying 10 was bad enough without redrawing him to look like he's 6. And a half baked, soggy Ghibli kid).

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Dont think so. Originally it felt like an actual good anime on Saturday mornings but then it became very Saturday morning cartoon-ey.

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There was a point where the Pokemon fights went "full anime."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o25G0CwuIiE&ab_channel=Nayan

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Squall28 posted...

There was a point where the Pokemon fights went "full anime."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o25G0CwuIiE&ab_channel=Nayan

Damn, the animation is pretty slick there tbh lol

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The issue is that the Indigo League and the Orange League were written by Takeshi Shudo, who had big plans for the anime and wanted to make a series that both children and adults could watch, which is why the earlier episodes have such a more... gritty(?) tone than the later ones. He even had a huge series bible that depicted the Pokemon world as a rather dreary place, which of course is no longer canon.

He left during the Johto era due to direction the producers wanted to take the show in; the more formulaic, kid-geared approach that it's known for today.

However, the Sinnoh arc is regarded to be pretty good, as is the Kalos arc.

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DP and XY>>Season 1 tbh

DarkBuster22904 posted...

Johto Journeys through the end of the Silver Cup was excellent

Apparently Sun and Moon is amazing, though I can't stomach the art style (seriously, ash staying 10 was bad enough without redrawing him to look like he's 6. And a half baked, soggy Ghibli kid).

As much as I like the Johto league, the Johto arc overall had way, way too much filler in the middle. DP also has a lot of filler (and the largest gym gap in the series), but since it has like 3 major plotlines it's not as bad

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Squall28 posted...

There was a point where the Pokemon fights went "full anime."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o25G0CwuIiE&ab_channel=Nayan

Is he using a water pokemon against a grass type?

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

Is he using a water pokemon against a grass type?

This answers another thing I was wondering, whether Ash finally starts making good decisions

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Sinnoh had like proper character arcs
A lot of people say Kalos was the best

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Black and White was a comedy that was actually pretty good IIRC

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In my opinion most of the series barring BW were more or not as good as S1.

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SerperiorThanU posted...

Ash-Greninja is just that overpowered, even in the games he's top tier and even Ubers in Gen 8 National Dex (all dexited Pokemon are allowed, something you can't do in the games).

This is true, but beyond being a much higher level, Ash-Greninja is not beating a Mega-Sceptile without Ice Beam, which Ash did not use.

But I always just assume Ash is over-leveled when he succeeds in spite of all logic.


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Makes me wonder how powerful Ash would be if he actually keeps all his best Pokemon instead of dumping them with Oak every new region.

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Turbam posted...

Black and White was a comedy that was actually pretty good IIRC

Considering they made the TRio into personality-less battle drones, idk if it counts as a comedy. Plus they made Ash into an utter dumbass that made everything around him worse. Ironically enough his league loss was against the only person even dumber than him

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The problem with the Black/White arc is that they had clear plans and ambitions for it. But then the earthquake/tsunami of 2011 happened, which derailed the upcoming (like, literally that week) Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma special that was likely going to be a key event for the whole arc. After that, it never recovered.

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mehmeh1 posted...

Considering they made the TRio into personality-less battle drones, idk if it counts as a comedy. Plus they made Ash into an utter dumbass that made everything around him worse. Ironically enough his league loss was against the only person even dumber than him

Maybe it was abonther one.
Maybe Sun/Moon? I actually haven't watched anything past the Orange Islands so I'm not entirely sure which one it was that I heard was actually really funny.

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Turbam posted...

Maybe it was abonther one.
Maybe Sun/Moon? I actually haven't watched anything past the Orange Islands so I'm not entirely sure which one it was that I heard was actually really funny.

Yeah you're probably thinking of SM, since it's more comedic and slapstick-y than most other series
Solar_Crimson posted...

The problem with the Black/White arc is that they had clear plans and ambitions for it. But then the earthquake/tsunami of 2011 happened, which derailed the upcoming (like, literally that week) Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma special that was likely going to be a key event for the whole arc. After that, it never recovered.

Pikachu vs Snivy and Ash forgetting to damage Pidove before throwing a pokeball happened before that tho

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

Is he using a water pokemon against a grass type?

the anime is always super loose with this kinda stuff. I recall Ash's Charmander OHKOing a Golem with Fire Spin at one point

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MC_BatCommander posted...

the anime is always super loose with this kinda stuff. I recall Ash's Charmander OHKOing a Golem with Fire Spin at one point

Does his Greninja know Protean?

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MC_BatCommander posted...

the anime is always super loose with this kinda stuff. I recall Ash's Charmander OHKOing a Golem with Fire Spin at one point

There have also been at least 4 instances of Pikachu KOing a Ground-type using an Electric attack (Brock's Geodude, some guy's Marowak, another guy's Golem in the intro of the first movie, and Blaine's Rhydon because "aim for the horn").

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Solar_Crimson posted...

The issue is that the Indigo League and the Orange League were written by Takeshi Shudo, who had big plans for the anime and wanted to make a series that both children and adults could watch, which is why the earlier episodes have such a more... gritty(?) tone than the later ones. He even had a huge series bible that depicted the Pokemon world as a rather dreary place, which of course is no longer canon.

He left during the Johto era due to direction the producers wanted to take the show in; the more formulaic, kid-geared approach that it's known for today.

However, the Sinnoh arc is regarded to be pretty good, as is the Kalos arc.

This is fascinating. I remember watching Johto as a kid and feeling nostalgic for the earlier episodes but I couldn't quite place why. This makes sense now.

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Like people said, Black & White had big plans for Team Rocket vs Team Plasma, which got shit canned due to the earthquake/tsunami.

If you watch the first season of it, it actually has a little more of a serious tone to it. Team Rocket is actually competent, and doesn't blast off anymore. Their plans are generally more focused on grand criminal shit, like sabotaging the subway system, instead of just stealing Pikachu.
There's even an arc of like 10 episodes where Meowth decides to leave Team Rocket, and joins up to travel with Ash for like 10 episodes, before betraying Ash and revealing it was all one big scheme.

They ditched all the pun names for episodes, and there isn't just perpetually wacky music playing in the background. Much of the episodes tend to be silent and feature less whimsical plotlines.

The main characters of Ash, Iris, and Cilan are pretty ass though ngl, especially Iris. But tbf, aside from Brock, none of the main characters were ever interesting or likeable in Pokemon lol.

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SomeLikeItHoth posted...

Does his Greninja know Protean?

It has to have Battle Bond.

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littlebro07 posted...

This is fascinating. I remember watching Johto as a kid and feeling nostalgic for the earlier episodes but I couldn't quite place why. This makes sense now.

Iirc, he was rather famous for the "cracked wall" approach.

Basically, he had a policy that any wall you see needs at least 1 crack somewhere on it. It subtly gives the world the look of being solid and lived in, rather than the perfect, sterile places you see in a lot of cartoons.

You can actually see it in season 1, once you know to look for it. Its amazing the effect it has on the aesthetic

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mehmeh1 posted...

Pikachu vs Snivy and Ash forgetting to damage Pidove before throwing a pokeball happened before that tho

You need to keep in mind that at the time of Gen 5, TPC was trying to make a soft reboot of the series. They got rid of Brock in the anime, the original BW games only let you catch new Pokemon with no way of accessing old generations at first, it was the first time they set a region outside of Japan.

In their eyes, they wanted to try and treat this as a new beginning for the franchise, which includes dopey Ash, who they retconned back to 10 years old again lol.

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Season 1 was terrible, DP is the best season. The fights, the comedy, the story even the side characters expand more team rocket is given way more than just the regular "blasting off again" skit. Barry and Paul make great rivals for Ash.

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Ash vs Paul in the League is the best battle in the series.
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LostForest posted...

You need to keep in mind that at the time of Gen 5, TPC was trying to make a soft reboot of the series. They got rid of Brock in the anime, the original BW games only let you catch new Pokemon with no way of accessing old generations at first, it was the first time they set a region outside of Japan.

In their eyes, they wanted to try and treat this as a new beginning for the franchise, which includes dopey Ash, who they retconned back to 10 years old again lol.

For a series meant to be a soft reboot it had a unusually amount of flashbacks moments and past references throughout the series. While at the same time displaying Ash as a complete noob. Which made the series feel awkward overall. With them referencing Ashs past adventures and then just a few mins later hes being reminded how to catch pokemon.

It didnt help either that most of Unovas pokemon were forgettable garbage. Both design wise, and gameplay wise.

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