Current Events > War on terror displaced 59 million people

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/09/08/horrifically-catastrophic-report-finds-so-called-us-war-terror-has-displaced-many-59

usa the leading beacon of democracy,,,

God damn. >_>

---

neoconservatism was a mistake

---

Climate Change: Hold my beer

---

ah yes it is the US military that displaced all those people in... Syria? The Philippines? yeah sure why not just put a number in the headline no one will bother looking at the report.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

ah yes it is the US military that displaced all those people in... Syria? The Philippines? yeah sure why not just put a number in the headline no one will bother looking at the report.

It played a dominant or contributing role.

TheMikh posted...

neoconservatism was a mistake

lurk posted...

It played a dominant or contributing role.

It did not actually there was this civil war thing in Syria that happened maybe you've heard of it.

TheMikh posted...

neoconservatism was a mistake

It's not just neocons, most members of congress voted to wage war against Afghanistan and Iraq and continue to support perpetual war and approve increases to the military budget.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

It did not actually there was this civil war thing in Syria that happened maybe you've heard of it.

Ill read the actual report but it sounds to me you are in denial that the US military is a net negative to the world.

lurk posted...

Ill read the actual report but it sounds to me you are in denial that the US military is a net negative to the world.

sounds like we've discovered tulsi gabbard's gamefaqs account

also that's not called denial it's called being informed

Broseph_Stalin posted...

sounds like we've discovered tulsi gabbard's gamefaqs account

also that's not called denial it's called being informed

Im voting Biden and Assad is a monster.

dont be stupid, I have an actual study. What do you have?

Actually report is honest and says they have a range for a reason. 37-59 million.

syria is just where they go really conservative.

lurk posted...

I have an actual study.

You have a study that counts the Syrian civil war as the "war on terror".

This may shock you but colleges have more money than they know what to do with and routinely spend it on dumb studies that media outlets don't bother fact-checking because it will produce a nice clickbait headline.

Ozovzk posted...

It's not just neocons, most members of congress voted to wage war against Afghanistan and Iraq and continue to support perpetual war and approve increases to the military budget.

that is also true

---

Man. The fucks who did 911 really fucked a lot of people over.

---

wait, the US military is not a net negative on the world? Does the countless amount of people who got killed know that?

---

Broseph_Stalin posted...

You have a study that counts the Syrian civil war as the "war on terror".

This may shock you but colleges have more money than they know what to do with and routinely spend it on dumb studies that media outlets don't bother fact-checking because it will produce a nice clickbait headline.

Displacement linked to U.S. military activity in Syria is particularly challenging to quantify. Throughout the countrys civil war, more than half of Syrias pre-war population has been displaced, totaling some 13.3 million people in 2018.15 We considered including most or all of this displacement in our calculation given the important role the U.S. war in Iraq and its birthing of the Islamic State have played in shaping the Syrian civil war. We opted instead for a more conservative approach given that U.S. involvement in the war has been relatively limited compared to that of the Syrian government, rebel forces, foreign militants, and Russian, Turkish, and other foreign militaries. While the U.S. government has provided funding, training, and other support for some rebel groups, U.S. forces only started fighting in Syria in 2014 with the start of the U.S. war against the so-called Islamic State. As a result, we focused our calculations on people displaced from five Syrian provinces where U.S. forces have fought and operated since 2014. 16 A less conservative and arguably more accurate approach would include the displaced from all of Syrias provinces since 2014 or as early as 2013 when the U.S. government began backing Syrian rebel groups.

nah its fair

From the paper:

In documenting displacement caused by the U.S. post-9/11 wars, we are not suggesting the U.S. government or the United States as a country is solely responsible for the displacement. Causation is never so simple. Causation always involves a multiplicity of combatants and other powerful actors, centuries of history, and large-scale political, economic, and social forces. Even in the simplest of cases, conditions of pre-existing poverty, environmental change, prior wars, and other forms of violence shape who is displaced and who is not.

For some reason the article quotes paragraphs around it, but skips this one.

For example, they count displaced people in Pakistan from them fighting the Taliban because that's where they fled when the US fought them in Afghanistan, even though they've been providing support TO Pakistan:

After Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters fled Afghanistan into northwest Pakistan following the 2001 U.S.-led invasion, a single, interconnected war has been fought on both sides of the border. The U.S. government has participated in the war on the Pakistani side of the border with drone and air strikes, aerial surveillance,and financial backing for the Pakistani military.

They also count refugees from Saudi Arabia fleeing Yemen because the US sells them weapons, and even though it acknowledges that a coalition of European countries also participated, the count is entirely put on the US. In addition, it counts people fleeing in Somalia due to drought and famine because it happened in parallel to fighting Al Qaeda, It counts all the people fleeing the Philippines while also saying the extent of US involvement "is unknown", it counts all the Libyan refugees after the arab spring happened and Gaddafi was killed. It literally blames the US for african Libyans fleeing after arab libyans got racist against them.

Buried at the end is also a quiet note that of said 37 Million (no idea where the TC got 59 million), 25 million have returned home and the duration of their displacement isn't considered.

But hey, this random site is rated by media bias fact check as often using strongly loaded terminology. So I'm sure there's no agenda in these little omissions.

---

ISIS took control of parts of Syria because of the civil war and the collapse of government control in the eastern region. Counting a single person is an overestimation.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

ISIS took control of parts of Syria because of the civil war and the collapse of government control in the eastern region. Counting a single person is an overestimation.

Would ISIS have gotten as large as it did if not for Iraq war via Bush?

s0nicfan posted...

But hey, this random site is rated by media bias fact check as often using strongly loaded terminology. So I'm sure there's no agenda in these little omissions

The nyt ran an article with basically the same headline except with the correct number

---

lurk posted...

Would ISIS have gotten as large as it did if not for Iraq war via Bush?

It would not have expanded into Syria without the civil war is the point you're missing here.

Balrog0 posted...

The nyt ran an article with basically the same headline

Because its not just a shit bait article

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2020/Displacement_Vine%20et%20al_Costs%20of%20War%202020%2009%2008.pdf

Broseph_Stalin posted...

It would not have expanded into Syria without the civil war is the point you're missing here.

But ISIS is still a mistake the US made worse right? If yes, the Us is a contributor.

Balrog0 posted...

The nyt ran an article with basically the same headline except with the correct number

I read the paper. I stand by the rest of my post.

---

lurk posted...

But ISIS is still a mistake the US made worse right? If yes, the Us is a contributor.

Every displaced Syrian is the result of the civil war I cannot make this any simpler please read.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

Every displaced Syrian is the result of the civil war I cannot make this any simpler please read.

ok at this point you are ignoring that US helped create a a massive terror group that contributed to these peoples problems.

kinda sad the levels of jingoism you see among so many people who call themselves moderates.

its ok to admit it.

the world is better off without US policing it.

What happened to Syria didnt happen in a vacuum. The Iraq war made what happened worse.

better call in an expert on dealing with vacuums
@The_Doge

---

lurk posted...

its ok to admit it.

You're not familiar with broseph

---

lurk posted...

ok at this point you are ignoring that US helped create a a massive terror group that contributed to these peoples problems.

I'm not ignoring anything I'm just a lot more informed on this than you. ISIS was created long before the US invaded Iraq and didn't have any capability to capture territory from a country not in a state of civil war. There's a reason they invaded Syria and not Turkey, Jordan, etc.

And it takes a special kind of delusion to think the world was better off in the 1930s.

Balrog0 posted...

You're not familiar with broseph

I am.

he is very rude and abrasive and consistently has been,

he wont admit error here.

lurk posted...

I am.

he is very rude and abrasive and consistently has been,

he wont admit error ever*.

ftfy
---

Its funny how crazy and frothing at the mouth this dude is. One of his very first posts was to accuse me of liking Tulsi Gabbard. I actually think the one good thing about trump is him pulling soldiers out of bases. Every FP hawk I have talked to scares me in their lack of being able to put America at fault for bad shit that happens.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_Iraqi_protests
17 years. Iraq is still an authoritarian regime.

what nations will we destroy next?

---

Well TC, I don't like what your study says, so I'm just going to say that I know more than them and leave it at that.

---

lurk posted...

Its funny how crazy and frothing at the mouth this dude is.

It's more like I pointed out how flawed this "study" was and you took it super personally because it makes you look bad for parroting it.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

ISIS took control of parts of Syria because of the civil war and the collapse of government control in the eastern region. Counting a single person is an overestimation.

to be fair, ISIS as an organization was started by al-zarqawi, a rather notorious figure in the insurgency during the iraq war - they just joined forces with certain syrian rebel groups

furthermore, that iraq remained fragile after the departure of us forces basically left a number of its military establishments and prisons - the former complete with vehicles, weapons, and ammunition, the latter with former insurgents - ripe for seizure, hence how ISIS managed to explode in size in 2014-2015

---

TheMikh posted...

neoconservatism was a mistake

Its funny how Lincoln project guys and Bill Kristol are loved by online liberals yet 75 years from now they will be seen in same light as Pinochet

lurk posted...

Its funny how Lincoln project guys and Bill Kristol are loved by online liberals yet 75 years from now they will be seen in same light as Pinochet

aside from dealing with insurgents in the country, pinochet didn't start any conflicts while in power iirc

though i will say american chicagoans, or at least their proponents in the political establishment, do tend to have quite a bit in common with neoconservatives

though they consider the latter to be far more idealistic on foreign policy, and they themselves are a bit more fiscally conservative

---

eh tbf i did want to compare them to nazis but i thought that was too far gone

the napoleonic empire is probably a better comparison from more distant history

in more recent times though, they were kissing cousins with the american cold war establishment

that aside, comparable in a sense to a hypothetical trotskyist soviet union, except with capitalism instead of communism

---

Arrow2theknees posted...

better call in an expert on dealing with vacuums
@The_Doge

We must replace vacuums with Doge Army

---