Board 8 > King of Fighters 2020 (NOT MERCS) R2D10: Estelle Bright vs Guile (Low)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Welcome to the King of Fighters 2020 (NOT MERCS) Simulated Character Battle Tournament!

The game is simple. The two* listed characters are placed in an (imaginary) location with a variety of (imaginary) environments, kind of like a picture in a child's schoolbook that describes different types of geological features. Within a ten mile radius, there is an (imaginary) urban downtown, exurbs, plains, snow-clad mountains at the edge, dry plains, etc. Fighters start wherever is most appropriate for them, but feel increasingly compelled to seek out their opponent and fight. Strong-willed fighters can try to hold out in their chosen environment for longer... eventually, all will succumb and actively search for the other to battle.

To participate, just vote in bold for whichever character you believe will win. Giving reasoning is optional, but please be polite and read what others have said and carefully make your decision. I'll ping the nominators (they can opt out) to give arguments if they wish.

Results/Discussion: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/78797189

TODAY'S PARTICIPANTS:
Estelle Bright (Trails in the Sky)
https://i.imgur.com/kHD6To4.png

vs

Guile (Street Fighter)


@GavsEvans123

FIGHT!

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Both are expert martial artists with low-level offensive magic. Only Estelle has a stick. I do not believe any further discussion is required

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Guile regularly goes toe to toe with people like Balrog (who trains on cinderblocks and can kill an elephant with a punch) so unless we get some good showings of Estelle's fabled fighting ability this should be a clear win for him

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NFUN posted...

Only Estelle has a stick. I do not believe any further discussion is required

Guile has a big stick too

just ask the ladies

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leaning Estelle due to bigger stick
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look estelle has a stick but does her theme music go with anything

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I feel like Estelle would rush down and hit neutral or jump when faced with down back and crouch.

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X_Dante_X posted...

look estelle has a stick but does her theme music go with anything

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um5EbReY7rA

or, if you prefer,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmandi2nKi4

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Shonen_Bat posted...

Guile regularly goes toe to toe with people like Balrog (who trains on cinderblocks and can kill an elephant with a punch) so unless we get some good showings of Estelle's fabled fighting ability this should be a clear win for him

she beat up a god

with a stick

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how conveniently unquantifiable!

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Shonen_Bat posted...

how conveniently unquantifiable!

she beat up a guy who can destroy a castle wall in one punch... with a stick
she beat up a 40 foot tall, 30 ton combat robot... with a stick

somebody who trains using cinderblocks doesn't fucking compare to a literal god

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Estelle joins the pile of mistiered characters then

low tier life is rough

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NFUN posted...

she beat up a guy who can destroy a castle wall in one punch... with a stick
she beat up a 40 foot tall, 30 ton combat robot... with a stick

somebody who trains using cinderblocks doesn't fucking compare to a literal god

Did she have allies helping her do this?

Shonen_Bat posted...

Oh yeah, I forgot that Estelle is an RPG hero and fights over the top enemies before breakfast every morning

ok you did this in the last Estelle topic too. I don't argue about her about the strength of her opponents because that's a very poor illustration of strength in these types of discussions. there are very few mid-tier characters I'd take Estelle over. She's strong, vaguely but not remarkably superhuman, and skilled. She's a capable fighter, at least enough to take Guile. She's not broken, nor even the best low has to offer

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rwlh posted...

Did she have allies helping her do this?

sure. a child with a cannon, a spoony bard, and a teenager with a fencing saber. she's stronger than many of her allies, and carries enough of her weight in the sky games that i'd attribute the "feats" to her. and by crossbell she's a legitimate badass

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thats not a bad theme at all (some may call it good), but i think i'm still giving the edge to guile

not voting yet since i think its a close match

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X_Dante_X posted...

thats not a bad theme at all (some may call it good), but i think i'm still giving the edge to guile

not voting yet since i think its a close match

Alright, how about this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jOBbzBoUCk

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I did this in the last Estelle match because it was dumb then too, it took this long to get any arguments for her other than "she has a stick"

NFUN posted...

I don't argue about her about the strength of her opponents

she beat up a god

with a stick

NFUN posted...

She's not broken, nor even the best low has to offer

yeah, there are plenty of low tier characters she might lose to

there's Mario, a mid tier, The Beast, a mid tier, Kenshiro, Battler, and gun hax Ocelot who are all busted... and Batman with prep time

oops

NFUN posted...

She's a capable fighter, at least enough to take Guile.

every example I've seen of her fighting has her charging forward, sometimes screaming, and wildly attacking with her stick

citation needed

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you argued this first. The argument "This character is strong because he beat up this strong opponent" naturally calls for the response "This character is stronger because she beat up this stronger opponent". *I* don't argue this. *You* do. What did you expect?

Shonen_Bat posted...

every example I've seen of her fighting has her charging forward, sometimes screaming, and wildly attacking with her stick

citation needed

what examples have you even seen? their games have few animated cinematics and fewer out-of-battle engine fights, and in-battle s-crafts are definitely not canon (unless you accept a character literally summoned a valkyrie to attack or used a satellite's laser in a world that hasn't achieved spaceflight). like i said before, she's a high-ranking member in a guild of badasses, in a tier with those strong enough to get legendary nicknames based on their combat prowess. she's the daughter of one of the strongest people in the world and at least could give him a decent fight before eating it, having learned a few of his tricks (such as his s-craft, which literally i wouldn't count as a canon attack but her having access to the same one is significant). but sure, you've never been given examples of anything other than her wildly attacking with a stick. if you say so

Estelle

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i did some searching, and it seems estelle's theme does indeed go with quad city dj's better than guile's theme

<b>estelle</b>

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i miss old gamefaqs estelle

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thoughts:
- I wasn't entirely being facetious about the big stick - I feel like having superior reach matters a lot against a fistfighter.
- Estelle is a fairly garden-variety RPG character, fighting monsters and robots and all kinds of powerful opponents while in a party. Which is enough to steamroll a lot of low, but would job miserably to a big chunk of mid, so...I don't think she's mis-tiered, just a bit awkward.
- It's a little hard to parse out her individual combat achievements, but she's the Bracer Guild hotshot while the other party members tend to be more of a revolving door (and have less plot backing). So I would give her a fair amount of credit.
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I'm not sure why Guile was nominated. There are more interesting Street Fighter characters to argue. Did Guile even face off against peak Bison? The Alpha 3 canon is a mess.

Guile

I just think Street Fighter is a tier above what anyone's said about Trails. You've got Zangief destroying a legendary sword of myth by flexing hard and Chun Li breaking down military bunker doors with her fists, and Guile tends to be in the upper end of the "doesn't have magic superpowers" crew. From everything I know about Estelle, she is going to get into range to get Flash Kicked because has big stick, will hit with big stick. And I just think Guile's significantly stronger than that.

Like, he scales to a tier below Feng Shui Engine Juri, and I'd take Juri without hesitation here. I don't see a stomp, and unless Estelle develops to use her head more beyond player input (and it's consistent in sequels), I don't see her not getting into Guile's range.

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Guile

Yeah, Street Fighter is getting undersold here. Estelle may have a bit of range with her stick, but Guile can kite her with Sonic Booms. "Beat a god along with a couple other people" doesn't really impress me too much either without much information on the god. Estelle's most impressive stuff is the S-Crafts, and if she doesn't get those, she doesn't stand much of a chance.

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NFUN posted...

What did you expect?

Something above a kindergarten-level "but he started it" response

NFUN posted...

what examples have you even seen?

that's exactly it, basically none. Nothing in-game that I've seen suggests her fighting style will be that much better than "I'll remind you that I have a very large stick", same with the handful of cinematics I've seen like this one

https://streamable.com/yjh6i

Switching to Guile because

Kamekguy posted...

Street Fighter is a tier above what anyone's said about Trails

I have a bad habit of knee-jerk voting sometimes <_<


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It's not like Estelle doesn't have ranged options, though. Ignoring magic for a second, she already has the ability to fire waves of energy with Comet, which considering it's a defense-piercing attack should be absolutely comparable if not stronger than Sonic Booms. Now including magic, Estelle has a wide range of various effects from summoning tornados and earthquakes to giving herself a shield that protects from any attack. Most importantly though, unlike Guile she has a method of healing herself midfight through healing magic. Estelle regularly destroys monsters and robots several times larger than her and tanks their lasers and gunfire, which is absolutely superior to Guile maybe scaling to Balrog.
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Oh yeah, voting Estelle
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Ok, yeah. Estelle can heal herself if she wants to stand there and let Guile beat her up while she's casting her healing magic. I don't think she'll get a net gain from it, but she can try.

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Mewtwo59 posted...

Ok, yeah. Estelle can heal herself if she wants to stand there and let Guile beat her up while she's casting her healing magic. I don't think she'll get a net gain from it, but she can try.

I thought you were arguing Guile would be kiting her from range with Sonic Booms. How can he simultaneously be too far for her to reach but also be too close for her to heal safely?
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(Plus, Tear-All, the high tier healing magic, full heals anyway, so as long as Guile cant kill her before the heal goes off, which is likely, she goes back to full health)
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If it's in Estelle's personality to charge in headfirst, which it seems like people have been arguing, when does she think to heal? Does it take a Flash Kick from Guile to make her reevaluate, retreat, and start using magic and healing? Would the Flash Kick just...knock her out before she has a chance?

Here's a Guile respect thread. Note that I'm not sure how much of this is canon to the games.
https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/6ejmzm/respect_guile_street_fighter/

Here he is moving so fast Juri is caught off guard:
https://streamable.com/u50b8

And here he is easily and repeatedly deflecting a berserking Alex without breaking a sweat or taking a hit:
https://imgur.com/a/hwaLz

Both of these seem relevant to this match.

Here's an Estelle respect thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/6999qg/respect_estelle_bright_the_legend_of_heroes/

This is a "Hurricane" spell, which doesn't seem to move that quickly:
https://i.imgur.com/vLsKrgq.gifv

However, she moves fast enough here to seemingly dodge gunfire. That's pretty impressive:
https://i.imgur.com/ICkW8iq.gifv

Estelle using her stick to defeat an enemy:
https://imgur.com/a/My0Eh

This is her charging in to attack a larger enemy:
https://streamable.com/afgd2

She tanks a punch from someone who punches hard enough to create shockwaves (though it's unclear if he was holding back):
https://streamable.com/inlq9

Deflects (slow-moving...) bullets:
https://i.imgur.com/X9TPPrX.gifv

So it seems like she has some pretty good speed feats. (Then again, so does Guile.) It seems like, yes, she would just rush in and attack, but she would probably be able to dodge Guile's initial attack. From there, Estelle could follow up with I guess more charging in? Maybe try some magic? Guile is the type to calmly analyze compared to her (look at how he handles Alex).

Estelle might also give away her position pretty quickly, eager to get in a fight and whistling about "ultraviolence." Guile could try and get the drop on her, but her reflexes are pretty good.

Summary: still unsure.

those are all Sky FC/SC Estelle. By the end of SC she's matured a lot more, and has definitely grown out of "blindly charge in" by the later games. Remember, half the job of Bracers is to act as conflict mediators and detectives. She's still a rash person, but one trained to use her head.

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Guile

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Thing is, Guile is trained to use his head too. He's spent his life in the military, most of it in pursuit of Bison. He used to be more stubborn in Street Fighter II, but he's good at keeping his cool in later games.

I don't know how stealthy Estelle is (one might say I don't know what her level of "Estealth" is, ha ha...ha), but Guile hunted Bison and Shadaloo for years, often going to dangerous places and fighting dangerous people, so I would imagine stealth was a key skill for him.

Guile.