Current Events > Turns out the Kenosha shooter acted in self-defense

(+) Yeah! (+)

Tired-Insomniac posted...

From a certain point of view, skateboard guy could also be seen as acting in self defense because he doesn't want to be shot or for anyone around him to be shot

Especially if this is after he's already killed someone - at that point he's become an active shooter and they're trying to stop him

I know legally it most likely wouldn't be seen that way though

dude, if a guy has a gun normal people arent looking to close in on him and attack him.

skateboard guy was clearly looking to hurt him either for retaliation OR just to incapacitate him.

either way it was a foolish decision.

just run away.

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De Evolution posted...

I agree, but just like Mike Brown, this is NOT the hill for anti-police or BLM people to be dying on.

Which is exactly why it was publicized.

Notice the open and shut cases like Tamir Rice never get publicized like this nationally. Police assassinate a 12 year old in a park before even getting close, they issue no commands, make zero attempts to arrest, and just gun him down as if we were in Afghanistan.

But they use cases like this where both sides were in the wrong to publicize and throw out so people can fight over.

Unfortunately based on the footage, despite the fact the officers did a piss poor job detaining him before he got to his vehicle, he did indeed ignore police, resist them, and reach inside his vehicle. It was incredibly stupid on his part as well.

Plenty of cops have been shot by people who went to their vehicle to grab a weapon. I honestly don't understand what he was thinking at that point.

Dude, shut up. You made an embarrassment of a topic that didn't take long to age like garbage.

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De Evolution posted...

Notice the open and shut cases like Tamir Rice never get publicized like this nationally.

This could not be more wrong!
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/14464819/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-speaks-tamir-rice
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RadiantAdolin posted...

No. If multiple people are engaged in a violent, coordinated felony such as this and one of the people engaged pulls a weapon, they're all guilty of it.

Only if you could prove they're all accessories to it.

That's not up for debate, if they aren't proven to be accessories no matter how bad one was acting the others wouldn't get charged for it. That's literally how the law works.

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StarReaper13 posted...

Only if you could prove they're all accessories to it.

That's not up for debate, if they aren't proven to be accessories no matter how bad one was acting the others wouldn't get charged for it. That's literally how the law works.

Nope.

Racist kid deserves the death penalty. Or let him rot in jail.

Antifar posted...

This could not be more wrong!
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/14464819/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-speaks-tamir-rice

The establishment media never treated Tamir Rice the same way it did Trayvon Martin, George Floyd, or the latest shooting. Tamir Rice is who the country should have burnt over. The most undeniable case ever.

Fucking stop it you disingenuous shill.

It was popular cuz people got angry, not because it was being blasted in the 24/7 news cycle.

Instead people are debating these more "grey" cases because it's easier to cause division and strife when each side has a justifiable argument. You can't do that when the case is as blatant as how Tamir Rice was gunned down.


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TiffanyBlews posted...

Racist kid deserves the death penalty. Or let him rot in jail.

Racist kid that only shot other white people lol.

I mean I agree he's a right wing nutjob and a police bootlicker but it's a bit ironic.

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RadiantAdolin posted...

No. If multiple people are engaged in a violent, coordinated felony such as this and one of the people engaged pulls a weapon, they're all guilty of it.

An underage kid illegally carries a weapon. That's the the original crime. Resulting from that crime came violence and death. Therefore the shooter has committed felony murder with his own murder.

Armchair lawyers are silly.

De Evolution posted...

The establishment media never treated Tamir Rice the same way it did Trayvon Martin, George Floyd, or the latest shooting. Tamir Rice is who the country should have burnt over. The most undeniable case ever.

I think you're misremembering the amount of coverage that case received.
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Everyone involved is a complete idoit but the biggest idiot was the skateboard guy. Not feeling sorry for him.

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Antifar posted...

I think you're misremembering the amount of coverage that case received.

I think you're full of shit.

Tamir Rice never reached even a whisper of what Trayvon Martin received.

Tamir Rice was not blasted in the 24/7 news cycle like you see these big stories covered around the clock.

He was a story that's a fact, but not as comprehensively a covered one.

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De Evolution posted...

I think you're full of shit.

Tamir Rice never reached even a whisper of what Trayvon Martin received.

Tamir Rice was not blasted in the 24/7 news cycle like you see these big stories covered around the clock.

He was a story that's a fact, but not as comprehensively a covered one.

from what I remember I have to agree that Rice didnt or doesnt get the same coverage that Mike Brown or Trayvon Martin did or does.

people still wear Trayvon hoodies.

and I have to agree with you that the cops who rolled up on Rice need to be in prison.

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The running defense for this shooter reminds me of the desperate shit after the Charlottesville terror attack where people desperately tried to spin a defense for the guy who rammed his car into people

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Zero_Destroyer posted...

The running defense for this shooter reminds me of the desperate shit after the Charlottesville terror attack where people desperately tried to spin a defense for the guy who rammed his car into people

at face value that situation and this arent even remotely the same.

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TiffanyBlews posted...

Racist kid deserves the death penalty. Or let him rot in jail.

Platinum mad

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Interesting that we have white ppl saying the n word at a blm protest

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Lordgold666 posted...

Interesting that we have white ppl saying the n word at a blm protest

its also the white people causing the most problems.

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So if a good guy with a gun had shot this kid what would people be saying
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I don't think he should be charged with murder. He was very clearly attacked in that video. A skateboard was bashed upside his head. I would fear for my life too if I was on the ground and people were hitting me with objects.

chrono625 posted...

its also the white people causing the most problems.

chrono625 posted...

from what I remember I have to agree that Rice didnt or doesnt get the same coverage that Mike Brown or Trayvon Martin did or does.

people still wear Trayvon hoodies.

and I have to agree with you that the cops who rolled up on Rice need to be in prison.

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chrono625 posted...

its also the white people causing the most problems.

And black people gets the blame.....

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Bio1590 posted...

So if a good guy with a gun had shot this kid what would people be saying

Agitated ANTIFA RIOTER shoots kid IN COLD BLOOD

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Imagine being such a disgusting slug and waste of oxygen that you try to defend this

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Conflict posted...

Wow this topic backfired mad quick

The facts don't change but I do hope we get more light on this.

I actually believe the kid should be punished but I'm not sure exactly what he should get charged with.

Video footage clearly shows him being attacked so it's hard for me to justify murder.

Though the kid is certainly a racist bootlicking idiot I'm not sure that in and of itself change it from a legal standpoint.

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Nah he traveled across statelines with guns to instigate a group he is firmly in opposition to, its murder.

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Bishop9800 posted...

And black people gets the blame.....

honestly - I hear more people complaining about the angsty gen z losers making things worse and trying to be white saviors.

like, positive movement needs the backing of everyone.

but they are just fucking zeros looking to be apart of something and not understanding what they are doing is not helping.

these same white jerkoffs are the same ones who sucked at mom and dads tits for a shitty degree and are now blaming everyone else.

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The Trent posted...

FUCK THAT i don't want to hear it

exactly. all whites benefit from this racist system. there is no such thing as a white person who is not complicit

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Tactical_Spork posted...

Nah he traveled across statelines with guns to instigate a group he is firmly in opposition to, its murder.

This!!!

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KyerWiz posted...

An underage kid illegally carries a weapon. That's the the original crime. Resulting from that crime came violence and death. Therefore the shooter has committed felony murder with his own murder.

Armchair lawyers are silly.

That crime didn't cause this. He should be charged for that, and anything else he actually did, but the death came from people attacking him.

Tactical_Spork posted...

Nah he traveled across statelines with guns to instigate a group he is firmly in opposition to, its murder.

That doesn't make it murder.

The shooting them part does though

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RadiantAdolin posted...

That doesn't make it murder.

You are correct that traveling across state lines, owning guns, and opposing BLM does not make it murder; the thing that makes it murder is the part where he then murdered 2 people.

:)

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All these losers need to go the fuck home

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Stewman_Magoo posted...

The shooting them part does though

Not when it's blatant, proven self defense.

Unless he actually started the aggression, or the prosecution can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that both he was trying to get them to attack him and he acted in a way that any reasonable person would attack him, then they can't get the charges to stick. End of story.

If you have a problem with the laws, then I agree. But charging people and ignoring the laws isn't the solution.

Traveling across state lines with the intention of shooting people isn't self defense.

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Tactical_Spork posted...

You are correct that traveling across state lines, owning guns, and opposing BLM does not make it murder; the thing that makes it murder is the part where he then shot three people in self defense

:)

FTFY

RadiantAdolin posted...

Not when it's blatant, proven self defense.

Unless he actually started the aggression, or the prosecution can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that both he was trying to get them to attack him and he acted in a way that any reasonable person would attack him, then they can't get the charges to stick. End of story.

If you have a problem with the laws, then I agree. But charging people and ignoring the laws isn't the solution.

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Tmaster148 posted...

Traveling across state lines with the intention of shooting people isn't self defense.

Can you prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that he was traveling with the intention of shooting someone, AND that he instigated the aggression, AND that he acted to a point that any reasonable person would assault him?

No? Then that doesn't stop it being self defense.

Can you even claim self-defense if you're already breaking the law yourself
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https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ellievhall/kenosha-suspect-kyle-rittenhouse-trump-rally
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Bio1590 posted...

Can you even claim self-defense if you're already breaking the law yourself

Yes. You can still be charged for the laws you were breaking, but breaking the law doesn't mean you don't have the right to defend yourself.

Damn near 150 posts of people trying to argue with a literal Holocaust denier.

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RadiantAdolin posted...

Yes. You can still be charged for the laws you were breaking, but breaking the law doesn't mean you don't have the right to defend yourself.

Exactly. Self-defense specifically is a right you always have, despite the fact you may be breaking other laws.

Wasn't that the point with George Floyd and Jacob Blake...?

If he did not instigate the attack or resort to violence first, then he was justified in using violence to defend his own life.


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RadiantAdolin posted...

Yes. You can still be charged for the laws you were breaking, but breaking the law doesn't mean you don't have the right to defend yourself.

But does that not depend on what laws you were breaking?

Should illegal possession of a firearm allow to to claim self-defense for using it?

I'm not so sure he's going to win.
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Bio1590 posted...

But does that not depend on what laws you were breaking?

Should illegal possession of a firearm allow to to claim self-defense for using it?

I'm not so sure he's going to win.

You're right but right to self-defense is inherent. You absolutely can illegally carry a weapon, shoot someone with it justifiably, and only be charged with illegal weapons possession.

Unless he clearly provoked the fight/attack or initiated violence in the first place, the fact he's illegally carrying a weapon does not give any other human being/citizen the right to physically harm him as they please.

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Why was a minor walking around with a gun?

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Tactical_Spork posted...

Nah he traveled across statelines with guns to instigate a group he is firmly in opposition to, its murder.

Coincidentally, this is also why Travis McMichaels was charged with killing Ahmaud Arbery. You don't get to initiate a hostile situation and then claim self defense when shit goes sideways.

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BeyondWalls posted...

Coincidentally, this is also why Travis McMichaels was charged with killing Ahmaud Arbery. You don't get to initiate a hostile situation and then claim self defense when shit goes sideways.

Trayvon Martin though

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