Board 8 > Anything I should know before playing FFIV? (potential playthrough topic)

(+) Yeah! (+)

So I recently bought Final Fantasy IV DS and this place is pretty much a de facto Final Fantasy board. Having never played IV before, is there anything I should know before starting? Important missable items/characters/scenes etc or things I should do in a specific order, or places I could get stuck with bad saves/no grinding etc. When I played FFX for instance it would've helped to know that I should get the destruction spheres before leaving the cloister trials. I know this series does this kinda thing sometimes (looking at you, Zodiac Spear).

This might turn into a playthrough topic or it might not (I've never done one before and I don't know if there's any interest for it), but I am excited to see what this beloved game is like! I know absolutely nothing about it aside from a few character names.

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dont play the ds version

I mean it's not bad, it's just not as good as the GBA version

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if you're obsessive about missable stuff, the augments can really mess you up

they're not mandatory but it's very easy to miss out on getting all of them
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eh I haven't played the DS version, but I think it would be better to play a different version first if possible. SNES hard type if you want the original experience, or the PSP version for being easier but having additional features from previous versions plus the best version of The After Years if you want to play it (it's skippable unless you really want more of the same).

I think the DS version is supposed to be harder in some ways, and doesn't have equivalent to some off the new stuff from the GBA/PSP version, and has more missable stuff (at least I guess figuring out the 'best' way to transfer skills between characters is a bit difficult without a guide)
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Welp, this is the version I got... I didn't know it would be the worse one to start with. Oh dear.

And I'm not obsessive about missing something here and there, just if there's some important or super useful thing that can be missed entirely.

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there is absolutely nothing wrong with the DS version
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The DS version is garbage. The GBA and PSP versions are the best

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The DS version rules; it's not the best representation of the original game but I think it's better. The augment system isn't worth trying to figure out on its own though so I recommend following a guide for them; I used Allen's which worked just fine for my single playthrough even though its geared towards 3

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/939425-final-fantasy-iv/44453857

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I'm getting mixed messaging here... Gonna choose to believe the SMFFFC host, if only because this is the only version I have.

SomeKindOfJoke posted...

The DS version rules; it's not the best representation of the original game but I think it's better. The augment system isn't worth trying to figure out on its own though so I recommend following a guide for them; I used Allen's which worked just fine for my single playthrough even though its geared towards 3

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/939425-final-fantasy-iv/44453857

Oh cool, a guide from Allen himself! Thanks for this, I'll use it as necessary.

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well, it's not so much that the ds version is bad or anything like that, it's more that it's much more different from the original and other ports and so I think that you'd probably get a bit more out of it if you're somewhat familiar with the original and can see what they changed (and I get the impression that they buffed a lot of things/changed their strategies for the sake of challenging experienced or returning players) than as a standalone or replacement for the original.
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SantaRPidgey posted...

dont play the ds version

it's bad

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but then again if thats all you have, it'll get the job done

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It's actually quite a good version that's deeper and more challenging. Being harder could mean it's not the best way to experience it first I guess, but it's definitely the same game. It's not quite the original experience, but it's way better than playing Dawn of Souls for FF1.

Mr Crispy posted...

(and I get the impression that they buffed a lot of things/changed their strategies for the sake of challenging experienced or returning players)

Yeah it's been a while but I think this is true. Which is why it's harder. (My little brother beat this game as his first time when he was like 14 though so you'll be fine)

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I'm not especially bothered about the difficulty, it's a classic JRPG so I figure I can just grind if it gets rough. Famous last words!

Mr Crispy posted...

well, it's not so much that the ds version is bad or anything like that, it's more that it's much more different from the original and other ports and so I think that you'd probably get a bit more out of it if you're somewhat familiar with the original and can see what they changed (and I get the impression that they buffed a lot of things/changed their strategies for the sake of challenging experienced or returning players) than as a standalone or replacement for the original.

I get your points, if I hadn't bought this one already I'd probably consider getting it on GBA instead thanks to some of these posts, but this is what I have now and I really just want to finally experience this game in some form. Side note, I wonder why they never did versions of V/VI like this.

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I mean you can probably just get an emulator on your phone and get the gba one free

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andylt posted...

Side note, I wonder why they never did versions of V/VI like this.

One of the greatest missed opportunities of our generation.

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Eh ultimately the DS created some charming remakes but I can't imagine them putting a game like FFVI with that engine.

What could have been on 3DS though...

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I remember hearing something about the DS not being strong enough for similar V/VI remakes

but then they never did anything for 3DS either so maybe they just weren't interested
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If youre interested in really doing a deep dive on this game, both versions are worth playing. GBA version is fantastic and so is the PSP collection. Then if you want another take on FF4, the DS remake is also fun.

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th3l3fty posted...

I remember hearing something about the DS not being strong enough for similar V/VI remakes

but then they never did anything for 3DS either so maybe they just weren't interested

Aww man. An FF6 remake wouldve been incredible. The Figaro Bros and the yeti in glorious 3D.


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I still think I'll start with the DS one as I have it right now. If I'm having a miserable time I'll stop and try to get another version, and if I love it I may end up getting the other anyway.

It's weird how absent FF was on the 3DS, unless you count Bravely I guess.

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I'm gonna try to note stuff down here and see how it goes!

*progressive spoilers from this point*

First impressions: that is a very impressive opening cutscene for this console. A good prelude on the title menu too, in fact good music all round so far.

We meet Cecil, a dark knight and leader of the Red Wings who is reluctantly following his king's cruel and seemingly pointless orders in spite of his men's reservations. We get a brief vague flashback of him taking the water crystal from the Mysidians (I thought they were all murdered by Cecil's gang but we see a few of them later in the castle dungeon, more concerned about the crystal than their own lives). It's a pretty strong start, a corrupted king is nothing new but Cecil actually following his orders at this point even though he knows they are wrong is a decent setup, along with him seeing himself as a weak coward for doing so. The intro battle is not worth mentioning.

Merely doing his bidding isn't enough for the king though, who sends Cecil away to the village of Mist to kill an Eidolon, presumably as punishment for doubting him but who knows what his intentions are. Kain is sent with him for sticking up for his friend, and that is the only character trait Kain's been given here. Local white mage love interest Rosa is also worried about Cecil but tries to give him a pep talk in the glow of the very cool two moons (placing a bet now that we will visit one of them), and future party member Cid makes an appearance.

Onto the world map already, and there's seemingly not much to do but it's nice to explore freely. The village of Baron is pretty typical but some interesting dialogue from the NPCs shows the varying ways people view Cecil and the Red Wings, some of them awed but others afraid (and one very odd dancing lady sequence). This is also Cid and Rosa's hometown. We have chocobos already, they're not wasting any time here! The thought bubbles in the menu are cool. Battles are unsurprisingly basic so far, not sure how petrify works here though as it's different from other games. There's a rabbit who offers to change our name but then finds we are unable to (good joke), and quickly shifts purpose to becoming a cartographer. The Cave of Mist is full of treasures (the 100% map completion bonus is nice), and we're quickly into our first boss fight, but not before we must actively choose to ignore its friendly warning.

The Mist Dragon isn't up to much, just striking and occasionally using potions then sitting back while it shifts forms works well enough. It's weak to Cecil's attacks which I now realise is due to his weapon's dark affinity, it really is cool that you're playing as a kinda bad guy here at the start. Speaking of, after we kill the Eidolon we soon reach Mist, and the ring given to Cecil by the King spawns a bunch of Bomb monsters and burns the town down. Oops! We see a young woman/girl (it's hard to tell ages here) weeping over her mother's body, and it turns out we basically killed her via her Eidolon the Mist Dragon. Oops! Kain is ready to up and murder this child but Cecil stops him and decides this is his breaking point. Kain agrees to betray his king too, but claims he's not doing it for Cecil (intrigue!). The guys try to take her with them, but she's not having it and we have another boss fight! And I haven't healed, oops!

...or maybe not. The girl appears to summon Gaia, who severs the land in two and separates us from Kain. We wake up on the other side of a mountain range. She's unconscious so we're a solo party now, which makes the battles a bit tougher as we wander through the desert. I'm burning through potions here, and side note the Sahagins look weird in this game. We enter a waterway and I immediately hit my first game over thanks to a group of 4 tiny mages. Oh dear! I try again and make it to an NPC who tells me I shouldn't be here right now, which makes me feel slightly better about dying this early. After collecting a few items we go back to wandering around the desert before finding an oasis named Kaipo in the middle. A brief fight and a fleeing general later and Rydia introduces herself and her really weird looking Eidolon, Whyt.

I wander around the town and play a mathematical minigame with Fat Chocobo. Sure, why not! There's another dancing lady, Mappingway becomes Livingway, and Rosa is here somehow. Did she get here before us or did she cross the fissure somehow? Who knows, but we get an augment which I will not use yet as per Allen's guide. Some inhabitants mention the waterway and Rosa can only be awoken with an item from an Antlion's den to the east, so I guess that's where I'm headed next. Having fun so far, still settling in a bit of course but I'm looking forward to see where things go.

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all hail the mighty fill-in map
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It's very satisfying to complete the map and get a pretty useful item every time.

Rydia joins the party very, very weak, though thankfully she levels quickly. And it's no problem because Tellah the Sage also joins us while looking for his daughter Anna, and his magic is ridiculous (judging by how these things usually go, I'm guessing she becomes a powerhouse and he becomes utterly useless by the endgame). Weirdly he loses a couple of stats on level up sometimes, that's an interesting mechanic. The waterway is decent, I pick up a whole new set of armour and a cool Shadowblade for Cecil, and fight various Toads, Zombies and the like. After jumping a waterfall we soon find the next proper boss, Octomammoth.

I lose to him the first time with his second phase catching me off guard, but he goes down on the second attempt. I poisoned him with Rydia then kept her on healing duty while Cecil attacked and Tellah used Thunder/Cura as necessary. We then arrive at Damcyan Castle, but not before the Red Wings have murdered its occupants and taken off with the crystal. Tellah finds his daughter unconscious and jumps into a non-controllable fight with a Spoony Bard. I love when JRPGs use battles to tell story like this- Tellah isn't using his magic, just uselessly flailing his arms at Edward out of impotent rage. Anna conveniently gains consciousness long enough to defend Edward and reveal him as the effeminate prince mentioned by an NPC in Kaipo I think, then dies. Everybody gets mad at Edward for grieving her, Rydia calls him a coward and Cecil gives him the backhand (is he acting out because he considers himself a coward too?).

Tellah returns, swears revenge against the dark knight Golbez who led this raid then leaves the party to be replaced by Edward. I wonder if there will be any Mysidian coming after Cecil for doing the exact same thing Golbez did here, I'm sure it's intentional how this was framed. Anyway, Cecil slaps Edward into helping us out with a hovercraft over to the Antlion's Den. Edward is another back row character, but with a new set of abilities called Bardsong. He seems to be a status effect machine and little else right now, Lullaby at least is proving very useful for groups of enemies. I like how they give you Tellah to show what useful magic is like while keeping Rydia plot weak, then by the time he leaves Rydia is pretty competent herself. These Square guys know how to make an RPG! We make short work of the Antlion's Den and head to a boss, despite Edward's assurances.

The Antlion is a simple attack/magic counter boss. I have Edward stick to Life's Anthem (which is surprisingly useful) as there seems to be the usual 'boss is immune to status effects' thing here, and then have Cecil/Rydia alternate attacks as appropriate. It goes down faster than the Octomammoth and pearl in hand we head back to Rosa with the new handy hovercraft- I am surprised how early we have a mode of transport for getting around the world map. This is where I'm leaving it for today, but the game really seems to be getting into a nice groove now we have more variety in battle. Good stuff so far!

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I beat it both on GBA and DS and much preferred the DS version. Voice acting and the Augments added a lot to it.

Well I haven't played it since it came out so I guess I don't know if the VA holds up to current standards, but at the time I liked it.

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FFIV excels at pacing

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Rosa wakes up and is convinced that Golbez is manipulating the King (she goes on about this several times, I'm not sure why she suddenly became so sure) and joins the party to help stop Baron taking Fabul's crystal after learning that Rydia doesn't know Fire. That night, Anna's spirit appears to Edward in front of the moons and tells him to share his love with the world, though he isn't sure what she means. That was an odd moment, I'm assuming something will come of it. Also Anna's VA is the first so far that I feel isn't very good, in general I'm liking the voices. We make our way back north to Mt. Hobs, and Rydia actually does know Fire but didn't want to use it thanks to a certain someone burning down her village (oops!). She melts some ice and on we go through the skeleton- and spirit-infested mountain.

Rosa seems at first glance a pretty standard white mage, she doesn't know Esuna for some reason but Pray recovers MP in this one which could be very useful indeed. It can fail too ('The prayer goes unanswered') which is interesting, and she can also be an archer. I like Cecil's thought bubble relief at having her nearby too, it is refreshing to have the main RPG couple already established at the start of the game for once. At the summit we see a monk from Fabul named Yang, and get a simple intro fight as him to learn his deal. His deal is that he hits hard and has absurd HP. Cool! He joins us and for the first time in the game we have a full party, just in time to take on Mom Bomb.

Mom is a one trick Bomb, and that trick is exploding and dealing massive damage. Thankfully Yang's HP stat and Brace keeps him healthy, and Rosa survives the hit thanks to defending and having cast Protect. She Raises the others who didn't survive the blow and we take out the little bombs left in Mom's wake. Note: I very much like that casting a heal will auto target the party member who needs it most. Yang joins us formally and we hop down the rather small mountain and plow through the world map on foot with ease thanks to the bruisers on the front row. After scouting the map and finding another Chocobo Forest we enter Fabul Castle (Cecil is thinking about Kain now).

After exploring the castle and getting some more background lore, Yang convinces the King of Fabul that we are trustworthy despite Cecil's clearly evil looking garb, and it's time for battle. The ladies go hide with the healers because healing totally wouldn't be useful in a fight I guess? Who knows, it's medieval fantasy times. The Red Wings attack but are quickly swatted away by Yang (have I mentioned how cool the boss music is in this game), and eventually Kain turns up to fight Cecil 1v1 in a cool looking chamber. I barely get a single hit and hi-potion off before we go to a cutscene, and it appears Kain isn't entirely gone/possessed/corrupted/whatever is happening to him, as he hesitates twice at Rosa's voice.

Enter Golbez, and I take back my doubts about why Rosa was so sure he's evil- the voice, the outfit, the theme music, this guy is as openly malevolent as one can get. He takes some interest in Cecil then scoops up Rosa under his cloak and he and Kain leave us without another fight, Rosa and wind crystal in tow. Rydia uses Cure on us (not Raise so it can't have been that bad).

Exploring the castle in the aftermath gives some new dialogue, teases about some rough going at sea and Yang's unnamed wife recalls bashing the invaders with a frying pan, but alas doesn't join our team. The King warns Cecil that he can't defeat evil with darkness but gives us a sword named Deathbringer anyway that apparently belonged to a previous dark knight. Rydia convinces Cecil that getting Rosa back won't be that hard, and without an airship the group decides to go by boat back to Baron. The boat ride is non-controllable, and it soon becomes clear why- Leviathan attacks the ship, Rydia falls overboard, Yang jumps in after her, and Edward just sort of falls over. Cecil whites out and wakes up alone on a southern shore, and that's where I'm leaving things for now. I feel like the party setup changes at least every hour. The pacing is indeed very good, this game has yet to have a dull patch!

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ah cool, DS is the version i played too! reading your thoughts now
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Cool, I'm working my way through your FF8 topic too! And so far I do not get the couple of people who said the DS version is garbage, I'm having a good time.

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Quick note: I reloaded a Fabul Castle save to try refusing the dialogue option when the King asks for help. It just turns into an endless loop until you say yes. Worth a try!

There is a town real close to where Cecil washed up, what good luc- oh. It's Mysidia! I expected this to be more empty, or maybe for it to be reduced to burning wreckage, but Cecil's Red Wings appear to have taken as few lives as possible. Still, the mage-filled town is pretty hostile, to the point where Cecil gets turned into a toad by one NPC and a pig by another! Pretty good. The elder goes on about how we need to cleanse ourselves and become a paladin in what is easily the most video-gamey quest given to us so far: go east, ascend the mountain of ordeals to receive a sword and purify our soul and such so we can take down the darkness. We are then introduced to our guides, two impetuous children. Oh dear.

Palom and Porom aren't that bad actually, they start off weak but level up quickly, and they don't talk TOO much. Their spells cast quickly, except Twincast, which I have not successfully used as it takes way too long to cast and uses up two characters at once. I have to admit at this point I'm not sure how I feel about this mission, it feels like we've taken a real left turn into some bland sidequest and I'm really feeling the absence of the rest of the cast. I do finally notice here that you can switch party leaders on the map and get their personal thoughts which is pretty neat. We then find another Chocobo Forest where Campingway scams me out of my 12 tents for 300 gil. That sucks! I'd better get something for that good deed later on.

Meanwhile Golbez sends out Ssscarmiglione to clip Cecil's wings before he goes too far. Why does he want Cecil dead now when he left us alive in Fabul? Who knows. Kain says he wants to kill Cecil himself but Golbez doesn't trust him to get the job done and leaves him to guard Rosa. I can't figure the deal with Kain yet, not sure if he's just being corrupted the same way the King is or if there's something deeper, like when he told Cecil earlier he'd betray their King but not for his sake. He could have a thing for Rosa but I'm hoping there's more to it.

On Mt Ordeals we kill some more undead enemies (are all mountains home to skeletons and spirits in this world?) and then reunite with Tellah! There are so many mages in this game. He's seeking to learn Meteor to bring vengeance on Golbez, and Palom+Porom seem to know of his works. At the summit we face off against Scarmiglione, and I'm gonna be honest I was a bit worried about this fight. He had a whole intro cutscene with Golbez and is one of his four arch-elemental fiends or something, so I didn't want to mess around. Porom casts Protect+Shell on the party and Palom Bluffs himself then casts Fira, which does ridiculous damage and takes him down right away! Porom's thought bubble says she doesn't think it's actually over, so we go back to save then continue on. Sure enough, Scarmiglione is back in his true form and this time he's for real.

The atmosphere around this fight is great, the game really lets you know this isn't like the throwaway bosses you've faced so far. This battle wasdifficult for me. He counters Cecil's physical attacks and frequently spews various status effects on the whole party, really crippling everyone. Sleep, Poison, Silence, Blind, you name it. A real Malboro man. I manage to get off Protect/Shell for the duration but everybody is slowed down and I have to use a lot of my item stock to keep the party upright. Echo Herbs galore so Tellah and Porom can heal the party (why does Esuna not cure Slow!), and I use the Hermes Sandals I got ages ago on Palom so he can pull his Bluff+Fira combo that worked so well in the first fight. This is essentially how things go for several minutes, Cecil using items while Palom deals damage and the others just try to keep everyone alive. Eventually it works, and Scarmiglione falls for good.

A voice calls out to Cecil referring to him as 'my son', and Cecil finds himself in a strange area where he is granted a sword. The disembodied voice notes that this act will cause himself more sorrow, and Cecil gets a fancy new makeover. Who knew he was hiding such well-maintained blond hair underneath all that dark knight gear? It's quite a big transformation, and the game treats it as such. Before going further though we have to fight a mirror image of Dark Knight Cecil, and I'm mad at myself here for not saving after the second Scarmiglione fight. Fortunately it isn't a real fight, and the secret to win is not to attack at all (A Paladin apparently must hold no malice, which will be awkward if we can't use this new sword for the rest of the game). Cecil 'wins' and is reborn as a Paladin, rather literally as he is reset to level 1. It's a pretty cool thing to change the character's class and established design so boldly here and I'm sure it will have lasting ramifications, although I have to note I did rather enjoy playing as a Dark Knight protagonist.

Tellah also gets all his spells back, including Meteor. Much simpler than Sephiroth made it seem. I feel like Tellah won't be in the party for much longer, because we really have a whole bunch of powerful spells at our disposal right now and his single minded revenge focus may lead to his doom. Porom is about to tell Cecil something important but is interrupted by Tellah and I guess changes her mind, so we head back down the mountain grinding levels for Cecil as he muses on the voice calling him 'son'. I also muse on this, and the fact that Cecil is now the fifth character who can use white magic. Seriously what's with all the mages in this game.

I leave it here before returning to Mysidia, but I'm guessing we'll be taking the underground road back to Baron soon. Surprised they've kept Rydia, Yang and Edward out of the picture still, surely we aren't supposed to really think they've died? Rydia is on the box art and looks much older than she's appeared so far. Anyway I enjoyed that personal quest more than I expected to, and am looking forward to the little bits of lore and intrigue we keep getting growing larger and larger. We've uncovered much of the world map and appear to be ready to head right for Golbez, so I'm curious how things will go spectacularly wrong to keep the game going!

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when i played ffiv i pretty much never cast buffs because i don't generally explore what spells do much and because i hoard MP. i'm not sure i even knew what shell/protect did until ffviii. i definitely had never used esuna before ffviii.

scarmiglione, while i can barely remember what he looks like, is a name that sticks out to me for sure - guy wrecked me multiple times i believe.

agreed on literally every thought about cecil's transformation - it's surprisingly (shockingly?) early; the white magic overload is kinda weird; and i also miss the uniqueness of the dark knight cecil! OTOH resetting cecil's level is brilliant.

oh, and i'd heard of rydia going into the game... playing it made me realize just how weird the sexualization of her was.
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Resetting Cecil's level but giving him an elemental advantage against every enemy on the way back down the mountain so he is still kind of useful is really cool. FFIV in general does a lot of cool things to integrate the story and mechanics in a way that the series never really tried again except for like... 9 with Trance (bad) and Garnet's summons

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the DS version is the only good version

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SeabassDebeste posted...

when i played ffiv i pretty much never cast buffs because i don't generally explore what spells do much and because i hoard MP. i'm not sure i even knew what shell/protect did until ffviii. i definitely had never used esuna before ffviii.

scarmiglione, while i can barely remember what he looks like, is a name that sticks out to me for sure - guy wrecked me multiple times i believe.

agreed on literally every thought about cecil's transformation - it's surprisingly (shockingly?) early; the white magic overload is kinda weird; and i also miss the uniqueness of the dark knight cecil! OTOH resetting cecil's level is brilliant.

oh, and i'd heard of rydia going into the game... playing it made me realize just how weird the sexualization of her was.

I can't fathom not using Esuna in particular! Especially with the archfiends being status effect machines. This game definitely throws a ton of spells at you at once without any explanation though, if I hadn't already played a bunch of games in the series I would probably just stick to the elementals and cure.

Resetting Cecil's level is a great little trick that I guess they wouldn't be able to get away with if they did it too late in the game, I'll have to keep going to see if it was worth it to ditch his dark knight uniqueness already. They really go all in on him looking like a pure saint too. I don't know how this will reflect on his personality going forward, he was already pretty 'good' considering. I also wonder if he was granted his turn to Paladin due to a fatherly bias from the spirit who gave him the sword, but I'll have to wait and see on that.

Agreed on Rydia, not that I know what they do with her going forward but I can't imagine not seeing her as a child.

SomeKindOfJoke posted...

Resetting Cecil's level but giving him an elemental advantage against every enemy on the way back down the mountain so he is still kind of useful is really cool. FFIV in general does a lot of cool things to integrate the story and mechanics in a way that the series never really tried again except for like... 9 with Trance (bad) and Garnet's summons

I love stuff like that where the battle system ties to the narrative, so this is really good to hear. It's not quite the same as what you mention but I liked figuring out that Cecil was super effective against the Mist Dragon because he's the bad guy and she's pure, all the little scripted non-battle battles are cool and I really like all the uses of battle magic in the actual plot. I wondered if some of this stuff was DS only because as you say the rest of the series doesn't really attempt this, but I guess it's just an FFIV thing!

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The Elder tells us of an old Mysidian legend which I didn't write down, but there was something about being born out of a dragon's maw and the moon was involved. I think 'moon' was singular which is weird given that there's two. The Elder chastises Tellah for being consumed by vengeance (the game is lampshading this pretty hard), and soon it's off through the Devil's Road. I thought this would be a dungeon after this road being mentioned a few times- a Mysidian NPC says how it drains you of your vitality, but it's just a fast travel mechanic. Oh well.

Back in Baron we learn that Cid is being kept in the castle dungeon for hiding an airship, and that a master monk is now serving the King. Yang fights us in the inn after a harder than expected guard battle, but then he comes around. Apparently it was just amnesia and not mind control, but who knows what's really going on with all this corruption. He also mentions that Rydia was swallowed whole by the Leviathan (!). Jammingway lets us play some music (the ost is good!), but I stop scrolling through Edward's descriptions after getting worried about spoilers- one of the tracks mentions that it plays in the final dungeon. Yang's master key lets us into the armory but more importantly the Ancient Waterway, to sneak into the castle.

The Ancient Waterway has a bunch of hidden dark passages that are easy to miss, and I quickly learn how overreliant I have been on the lower screen's map. The monsters aren't hard down here aside from Baron guards that love to counter with Mini. Tellah's low MP cap is annoying me, though I know it's necessary to keep him from being too OP and most likely to stop him using Meteor, another nice example of gameplay merging with narrative. I also just learn now that Libra isn't a one off analyse mechanic but keeps the stats of that species for good. Handy!

Into the castle grounds and Cid is nowhere to be found in the dungeon, though we do find Captain Baigan, the guy who ratted Cecil out way back at the start of the game. He has a quick face turn claiming to ultimately serve Baron's interests, and the game goes along with the ploy by giving us a party joining jingle. Cecil trusts him but the twins suss him out, and a boss battle starts as he shows us his 'gift' from the king, which is apparently turning him into a weird monster. The battle isn't too hard though it takes me an embarrassingly long time to realise his hands are separate targets to his body. He loves casting reflect on himself, and immediately does it again whenever Tellah Dispels him, so I eventually learn to just hit him with Cecil and Yang while the magic users go for the arms. Once his body fades his arms self destruct, solely to annoy me by killing Porom and stopping her from receiving XP.

Happy to have the boss down, we head straight to the King to learn what's really going on after the twins chastise Cecil for being too trusting. The person we find is not in fact the King or even a human being, but another archfiend (Already?! We just beat Scarmiglione!) who has been posing as the King for some time. I like the creepy dialogue of the archfiends, it really makes them seem like they're from some other world, like they're out of place in a good way. Cue boss music.

**** this boss. Cagnazzo can go to hell. My first attempt started pretty similarly to Scarmiglione, dealing damage when possible but most of the time just trying to Esuna the status effects he continually causes (seriously, why does Esuna not cure Slow). He eventually starts to use Tsunami however, which not only causes significant damage but sometimes outright casts Death on random party members. We quickly stop dealing damage at all and just keep trying to survive another turn, but he eventually overpowers us and we receive another game over. Back to the waterway!

The second time I dispose of Baigan without much hassle and then decide to wander around the castle, finding some treasure chests and a mysterious force blocking another passage, and heal up at Cecil's bedchamber. I grind in the waterway for a bit, save and try again. The grinding was pretty useless because Tsunami still wrecks me, though halfway through I finally realise that casting Thundara while he's surrounded by water will cancel the attack. Success, we now have a strategy! This works ok for a bit but unfortunately Slow stops Palom from charging Thundara in time once and things quickly go to hell. Time for attempt #3!

The third and final attempt goes off without a hitch. I get off Protect/Shell on the party, Tellah continually casts Haste on Palom and Porom is on Cura/Esuna duty (she also manages to cast Slow successfully one time) while Palom spams Thundara the entire battle. The bruisers just attack, Cecil occasionally uses some white magic or an item. Cagnazzo goes into his shell at one point but it doesn't change the tactics much, and before long the Drowned King goes down. I am dreading the other two archfiends.

We rescue Cid who immediately takes a dislike to Tellah and head to his airship, but not before Cagnazzo(I think?)'s spirit taunts us from beyond, and the walls close in on the party. The twins sacrifice themselves to save the group by casting Break on themselves. I like that Tellah tries to cast Esuna on them, another instance of the game blending battle gameplay into the rest of the game. If ff7spoilers happened in this game, Rosa would just use Raise in a cutscene or something. Esuna doesn't work however, and the twins are gone (for now at least, no way they'd kill two kids like that). Tellah thinks it should've been him, and I wonder why he didn't use Break himself then. Maybe this'll soften his revenge antics.

Meanwhile Golbez is having unspecified trouble getting the last crystal and Kain convinces him to let Cecil do the legwork using Rosa as a threat. Golbez buys it, and if this is a trick from Kain I'm disappointed Golbez falls for it. Cid's secret hidden airship is just tucked away in the castle somehow, and there we are! Kain meets Cecil and apparently it wasn't a trick, he delivers the opportunity/threat as promised and leaves. There is clearly more going on here with Kain (as Yang notes in his thought bubble) but I still can't figure out what exactly. Anyway, we have an airship! And a whole world to explore already! The breakneck pace is really confusing me, I love it but what on earth is going to happen to keep the game going!

We're supposed to go to the north west but I instead go everywhere else first. Doesn't seem like there's any secret monster farming spots or Cactuar Island-esque places unfortunately, though we do discover a strange town called Mythril where everybody is mini/toad/pig. Not much to do there though, I'll go back when I get a party member in some status like that to see if anything changes. There's a cave nearby but no way to land there.

We also find Agart, a town with a telescope and a guy with some very interesting notes on the twin moons, apparently one of them has signs of life and has been turning crimson lately (I'm becoming less impressed with a certain other FF the more I see of this moon stuff, they just stole it straight out of this one!). Another NPC claims their dwarven ancestors survived without the sun, and there's a seemingly bottomless well at the centre of town. Another NPC saw something red disappear into the crater in the northern mountains. Lots of lore here, apparently I need a Sun's Stone to open up their ancestral home. This is a cool town! There's also a creepy tower/obelisk thing in the south west but I can't land there, and that's plenty for today so I'll leave it there.

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your fast progress has me jealous/wanting to replay this game

i can't remember, is there save point near the bosses scarmiglione and cagnazzo?
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There's a save right before Scarmiglione, the last save before Cagnazzo is back in the Waterway but you can tread back there safely enough after beating Baigan as there's no random encounters in the castle.

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We head to Troia, a place filled with and run by women that features a brothel, a black chocobo nursery and a weird encounter with Cheatingway. This seems to be where all the odd dancers come from. The women guards also wear very little armour partially because it is 'fashionable'. Oh, fantasy games... Instead of a king or queen though, the rulers of this region are eight Epopts which is a nice shift from the norm, and they are very quick to agree to let us 'borrow' their crystal without us even asking. Unfortunately the crystal has already been taken by a dark elf to a cave up north, so that's our new mission.

Edward is here too, alive if not well. I like how Yang, Edward and Cecil all washed up on different continents somehow, but we've run out of continents so who knows where Rydia will turn up! The south west maybe? Edward is glad to see us and hands us some Whisperweed which an NPC in town tells us can carry voices over great distance, but he's too weak to join our party right now, a shame but his metal harp would be useless in the coming cave anyway. Oh yeah, the cave is magnetic so we can't take any metal in. We grab a black chocobo from the forest which can fly but only land in other forests, and I wonder if there's some place on the map which I can get to only with this thing. For now though, into Lodestone Cavern.

Cecil is utterly useless here, his cures are weaker than Tellah's so he just sits covering for Tellah the whole dungeon. Cid's analyse is good but his attacks aren't super strong, and Tellah I keep on healing duty as his relatively low MP capacity doesn't make it worth using offensive magic (Oh how I miss the twins...). Cid's 0 MP interests me btw- how come Yang has 20 MP when neither of them use any magic? Fortunately Yang pretty much solos every enemy in this cavern, especially once we pick up some cat and faerie claws to boost his already high attack stat. There are some Cait Sith enemies which look more like Coeurls to me, and in XIII-2 Cait Sith's were little flying magic things. Maybe they just change up the species every game as long as it's vaguely cat-like.

There are a generous two save points in the cavern, and we soon reach the Dark Elf who appears to have built an entire crystal chamber here (or was it already there?). The fight goes badly, Yang can't land a single hit and everybody is doing very little damage, his Fira wipes us out with 6k damage each and I realise this is a scripted loss. Edward senses we are in danger and climbs out of his bed to play a tune on his harp, which drives the Dark Elf mad and stops him from maintaining the magnetic field that apparently he created (I thought it was natural to the cave). The crew hop up with full health and thankfully we're allowed to re-equip (but not leave the room), and now the real boss starts.

Things go much smoother this time, until the Elf switches forms to a Dark Dragon (Why was it pretending to be an elf? idk). Its Dark Breath attack catches me off guard and does quite a bit of damage, and I don't heal in time before he uses it again and wipes the party. Second time around I'm prepared and keep Haste up the whole time, and the dragon goes down without much trouble. Cid seemed useless in this battle. We collect the crystal and head back to Troia Castle, where Kain speaks to us somehow and tells us to head back to the airship. The Epopts are cool with this (they're really chill about us straight up stealing their crystal and handing it to the bad guys), and even let us raid their plentiful vault which has a chest with 50k gil. Neat.

We pop in to see Edward and thank him for his help. He and Tellah part on good terms and Edward now understands what Anna's spirit meant and gives us Bardsong. This feels like an exit for the prince which does catch me off guard, but maybe he'll return later on. I like that Yang seems pretty wise in his thought bubbles btw, he senses more than regular malice coming from Kain. Heading into the airship triggers a Kain meeting and then we're teleported to the Tower of Zot. Thankfully we can leave at any time, I'm not ready for another dungeon just yet.

We fly the Black Chocobo around the world looking to catch up on augments I forgot about (oops) and stuff I may have missed, and discover a town in the south west that I missed before but we can't land there right now as there's no forest. Back in Baron I remember the mysterious barrier preventing us from going ahead earlier, and head back there to discover the King's spirit! He has nothing for us though, other than a cryptic message to return to him once we've visited the lands where the Eidolons dwell, wherever that is. A neat little lore reward there for exploring. I also look for the Mysidian Elder as Allen's guide says I should be able to collect augments from him now, but I can't find him at all. That's where I'm leaving things for now, we appear to be headed for a big climax next time!

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anyone know where i can find a rainbow pudding

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Its a really rare drop from any of the pudding type enemies (jelly, flan, etc). I dont know what the best grinding spot is at that point in the game

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Rainbow Pudding best spot right now is Antlion's Den.

Thanks both of you! I'll try grinding the Den for a bit but if it's super rare I might just leave it til later assuming it doesn't lock anything off.

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technically spoilers but vague

Not much useful is locked off to you, you're only missing out on one thing that can help you in a lategame dungeon.

An hour grinding in, no pudding yet.

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Three hours... please, just one pudding...

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why are you grinding for this item?
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It's required for a major sidequest.

SeabassDebeste posted...

why are you grinding for this item?

Sidequest with the rabbit.

I give up. This is the first actually annoying thing in the game, and I don't want to get mad cos I'm having fun aside from this. At least it's not main quest and I have a bunch of hi-potions now.


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Whoops, with all the pudding nonsense I haven't posted the latest story update.

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rip tellah

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