Board 8 > Zelda: Breath of the Wild

(+) Yeah! (+)

skullbone posted...

Don't ask a question if you're not prepared for the answer then

He didn't answer my question though.

Edit: In fact, he dismissed my question.

So I can dismiss his 'answer'.

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I enjoyed making my own adventures and just goofing around for a while lot of hours, but once I was mostly done with that and started actually going after game objectives I pretty much stopped having fun until Hyrule Castle.

I feel like there has to be a way to appeal to the self-directed adventure mindset without only appealing to that group and telling everyone else 'this game just isn't for you'

the people who bought a Zelda game expecting Zelda game elements shouldn't be turned away at the door for not liking the game's different direction.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Am I alone here? Is there something I'm missing? Help me like this game more.

Guy gives a very detailed good post on why people like the game.

"Yeah I'm not reading that".

It's okay to not like the game. Why are you so against the idea that maybe the game just isn't for you, especially when you've already admitted to yourself that you're not having a good time?

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

But all of them are kind of awful. The tools are just... boring. I'd rather get a dungeon item that's used to defeat the boss in a really cool way than have to use nerfed bombs and puzzles where I have to grab and rotate something with the metal tool or traverse using ice blocks. Stasis is alright, but it's not exciting enough to really use in battle often.

I absolutely 100% disagree with this, the powers are fucking awesome. Most of Link's tools are very specific to limited situations and don't have much in the ways of organic use throughout the entire world. Whereas stuff like the magnet, people have literally used (along with rail-carts) to product a flying vehicle that can move throughout the map.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R20MXVdGUQ

One forces you down a very specific corridor on how they want you to play their game, whereas the other provides at least a little bit of freedom.

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skullbone posted...

Guy gives a very detailed good post on why people like the game.

"Yeah I'm not reading that".

It's okay to not like the game. Why are you so against the idea that maybe the game just isn't for you, especially when you've already admitted to yourself that you're not having a good time?

After he told me there's 0% chance I will like the game if I don't have fun the way he thinks I should have fun with it. Give a rude reply, get a rude answer. I've been perfectly civil with everyone else in this topic.

TheRock1525 posted...

I absolutely 100% disagree with this, the powers are fucking awesome. Most of Link's tools are very specific to limited situations and don't have much in the ways of organic use throughout the entire world. Whereas stuff like the magnet, people have literally used (along with rail-carts) to product a flying vehicle that can move throughout the map.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R20MXVdGUQ

One forces you down a very specific corridor on how they want you to play their game, whereas the other provides at least a little bit of freedom.

I mean, this is cool, but you're defending the game by people glitching it to do this cool thing. lol You know they didn't intend for that. I don't think I've used a tool or a bomb in a way once that made me feel like "Wow, this is actually really cool." Maybe batting around a boulder with Stasis or using metal crates to destroy my enemies is the closest thing? But even then, I would take a Stallord fight over that.

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That's not a glitch, though, and that kind of "hey wonder if this works?" gameplay is what I loved about the game. That kind of stuff was 100% intended.

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Murphiroth posted...

That's not a glitch, though, and that kind of "hey wonder if this works?" gameplay is what I loved about the game. That kind of stuff was 100% intended.

not going to post again in this topic, but if you think that was intended why wouldn't you be able to hop on something you were standing on and just lift it >_>

why the extra step >_>

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That's not a glitch, though. That's the physics engine they developed and the tools they gave the player to work with, which is 10x more interesting than "here's a bright glowy spot, rub the thing we gave you against it until you advance."

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Aecioo posted...

not going to post again in this topic, but if you think that was intended why wouldn't you be able to hop on something you were standing on and just lift it >_>

why the extra step >_>

Yeah, exactly. I think people are fooling themselves if they think it's intentional to stack stuff on top of each other to allow you to fly, especially when the "flight" is janky as all get out.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

After he told me there's 0% chance I will like the game if I don't have fun the way he thinks I should have fun with it. Give a rude reply, get a rude answer. I've been perfectly civil with everyone else in this topic.

Yeah maybe he should have said something like "if this is the question you're asking then I think you're going to be disappointed" or something but I don't think he was trying to be rude on purpose.

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Shonen_Bat posted...

I feel like there has to be a way to appeal to the self-directed adventure mindset without only appealing to that group and telling everyone else 'this game just isn't for you'

Please play Outer Wilds. Actually, everyone in this topic should play it if they haven't.

I legitimately believe it will be used in game design courses in the future as a case study in how you have actually meaningful open world exploration while balancing extrinsic and intrinsic motivations.

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Did the developers specifically intend for gamers to mash three carts together to develop a flying car? No.

Did the developers create physics altering tools for gamers to mess with and manipulate the physics engine? Yes.

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Shonen_Bat posted...

I enjoyed making my own adventures and just goofing around for a while lot of hours, but once I was mostly done with that and started actually going after game objectives I pretty much stopped having fun until Hyrule Castle.

I feel like there has to be a way to appeal to the self-directed adventure mindset without only appealing to that group and telling everyone else 'this game just isn't for you'

the people who bought a Zelda game expecting Zelda game elements shouldn't be turned away at the door for not liking the game's different direction.

I mean I'm sympathetic towards anyone who doesn't like BotW's direction (I love the game, so it makes me sad if others don't like the game!) but BotW totally feels like a Zelda game to me. I don't know how to say this without coming off as like some kind of elitist Zelda hipster, throughout the 80's and 90's every Zelda game always followed a different direction and I enjoyed all of them, so I don't really relate to the feeling of playing a Zelda game expecting it to conform to a particular formula. The broad gestures of a Zelda game are still here - exploring a large overworld, using tools to overcome challenges, solving puzzles in dungeons, Link and Zelda and Ganon and all that stuff - just a different way of packaging that I think worked fantastically well in delivering a Zelda experience. I feel bad for anyone who didn't jive with it since it sucks to have something be really popular and just not get it, especially when you liked previous entries in the series more, but sometimes I feel like people have too narrow a definition of what a Zelda game ought to be.

Yeah Im totally in the this is Zelda as I remember it, finally camp
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Paratroopa1 posted...

BotW totally feels like a Zelda game to me. I don't know how to say this without coming off as like some kind of elitist Zelda hipster, throughout the 80's and 90's every Zelda game always followed a different direction and I enjoyed all of them, so I don't really relate to the feeling of playing a Zelda game expecting it to conform to a particular formula.

There's a very compelling argument that other folks have made much better than I'm going to with how short I intend this post to be, but BotW is arguably a full realization of Zelda 1 - the spirit of exploration, experimentation and open-endedness is all there and brought to life beyond the wildest dreams of any of the franchise's original programmers.

So it's absolutely accurate to say BotW feels like Zelda - it more fully inherited Zelda 1's spirit than any other game in the series! But it certainly doesn't feel like "a Zelda game," insofar as it completely bucks the formula the series has come to be associated with.

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TheRock1525 posted...

Did the developers specifically intend for gamers to mash three carts together to develop a flying car? No.

Did the developers create physics altering tools for gamers to mess with and manipulate the physics engine? Yes.

This. You're fooling yourself if you think Nintendo didn't find stuff like this during playtesting and decided to leave it in rather than remove it. An unintentional effect of the physics? Sure, maybe. One they deliberately left in? Yep, for sure.

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It probably isn't a coincidence at all that Zelda 1 and BotW are two of the Zelda games that I most dearly love.

Xiahou Shake posted...

So it's absolutely accurate to say BotW feels like Zelda - it more fully inherited Zelda 1's spirit than any other game in the series! But it certainly doesn't feel like "a Zelda game," insofar as it completely bucks the formula the series has come to be associated with.

Yeah, but I mean to say that, in my eyes, the "Zelda formula" is actually a relatively new phenomenon - I look at Zelda 1, Zelda 2, LttP, LA, OoT, and MM, and I don't really feel like there's that much of a "formula" really established here - like generally speaking you'll go to dungeons in order and get a tool in each one that gives you the ability to progress further in the dungeon and in the world but they all have pretty different expressions of that idea. Only with the Oracles and Wind Waker, so in the early 2000's, do I feel like we had a sort of set-in-stone idea of how a Zelda game plays out, and only with Twilight Princess did it truly feel canonized to me (only for it to be turned on its head not long after anyway). Incidentally, TP is one of the Zelda games I find to be the most boring, personally.

Paratroopa1 posted...

It probably isn't a coincidence at all that Zelda 1 and BotW are two of the Zelda games that I most dearly love.

I think theres also a kinship with Majoras Mask that is under-explored

Games about overworld systems and minimal dungeons at the four corners, and hints at a deeper mythos that arent spelled out
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MM and BotW couldn't feel more different to me, lol

yeah that's fair, if someone loved Zelda 1 I could totally see them having the same opinion of BotW

I came back to Zelda 1 a few times but never managed to get into it even after stumbling into multiple dungeons, still haven't seen it all the way through

but yeah I get some of the BotW love, but it's upsetting to know that with the next game being a sequel it'll probably be some 6-8 years until a return to form happens, if one does at all

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Once again, I'm someone who dislikes the 3D Zelda games and I genuinely liked BotW. It had some serious design flaws but considering before that my favorite Zelda game was Hyrule Warriors, it had to dump a lot of what made 3D Zelda 3D Zelda for me to come around to liking it.

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Like they could have followed the Zelda formula and said "you have to gather the 4 MacGuffins from the 4 Divine Beasts before you can fight Calamity Ganon" and they didn't. They literally said the second you get out of the tutorial you can run right for Hyrule Castle and kick his ass.

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I do want to clarify that I can see why people really enjoy the game. It's not something where I'm like these MFers must be crazy. There's a lot to like here, especially if you like open world stuff more than I do. I just think it's a game with a lot of flaws, and I think I prefer the more standard Zelda formula. I know people get tired of it, and there's criticisms there, but I've always enjoyed the awesome moments they've made in these games and the cool story stuff. I miss really detailed towns with a lot of character to them too. I miss, miss, miss epic boss fights.

Twilight Princess was always in my top 3 Zelda games, honestly. I know it's not beloved as much, and I think this topic sort of explains a lot of why, but a lot of my favorite parts of Twilight Princess are the really cool towns and villages, the dungeons were on point, and even if the items were one and done, they were used beautifully. Stallord is still one of my top moments in the series. And a double hook shot? Really? But you use it to fight a giant fucking dragon. I love that stuff most of all with Zelda.

Also, this is a small thing, but I feel like if the shrines were less of a stop, go to a completely different zone to solve a puzzle/defeat a combat drone/enter and leave and was just something I could walk into or built into the world more, I would honestly have preferred that too. It would make the world seem more fleshed out if these things were built into the world. I think the fact that the world is so huge and lacks as much personality as a more streamlined game is something I also don't like as much? But building shrines into areas with trials would have made me appreciate them more and give the area more of a story element to them.

Just musing though.

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There are a few shrines where the interior just gives you your reward immediately because the challenge is actually getting to them/unlocking them in the first place, like the aforementioned Eventide Island

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I miss really detailed towns with a lot of character to them too. I miss, miss, miss epic boss fights.

I love the town areas of BotW though, they felt plenty big and detailed to me - at least as much as any other Zelda game - and they just feel like nice places to go, even if they do exist mostly as quest hubs. Does this game not have epic boss fights? I thought the boss fights in this game were really well done, my only complaint being that they don't have a lot of variety in the way they look because they're all some form of Ganon, but I'd also count stuff like fighting Lynels and the entering-the-divine-beasts segments to basically be like boss fights in one way or another and that stuff is all great too imo.

I do agree somewhat with the complaint about shrines though, I don't like how separated they feel from the rest of the world. I don't know if there's a whole lot that can be done to fix that since shrines are basically just spaces to have puzzle obstacles in without getting in the way of the rest of the world, but like I'd be happy if they even just changed the interiors of the shrines to represent the area you're in or something, the fact that every shrine has exactly the same look to it does get really old. It's one of my few problems with the game. A lot of the shrines have stuff you have to do on the overworld to get there though and those feel like the thing that you want.

Oh, I know that. For those, I wish I didn't have to open the shrine, enter the elevator, go through a loading screen, exit the elevator to get told my thing is there, walk to the elder, talk to the elder and get the thing, then get the thing, then listen to the elder as it fades away, and then go through another loading screen.

Like just give me the damn thing and make a teleporter location for me or something.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Oh, I know that. For those, I wish I didn't have to open the shrine, enter the elevator, go through a loading screen, exit the elevator to get told my thing is there, walk to the elder, talk to the elder and get the thing, then get the thing, then listen to the elder as it fades away, and then go through another loading screen.

Like just give me the damn thing and make a teleporter location for me or something.

Yeah this part is a little silly

Paratroopa1 posted...

I love the town areas of BotW though, they felt plenty big and detailed to me - at least as much as any other Zelda game - and they just feel like nice places to go, even if they do exist mostly as quest hubs. Does this game not have epic boss fights? I thought the boss fights in this game were really well done, my only complaint being that they don't have a lot of variety in the way they look because they're all some form of Ganon, but I'd also count stuff like fighting Lynels and the entering-the-divine-beasts segments to basically be like boss fights in one way or another and that stuff is all great too imo.

I do agree somewhat with the complaint about shrines though, I don't like how separated they feel from the rest of the world. I don't know if there's a whole lot that can be done to fix that since shrines are basically just spaces to have puzzle obstacles in without getting in the way of the rest of the world, but like I'd be happy if they even just changed the interiors of the shrines to represent the area you're in or something, the fact that every shrine has exactly the same look to it does get really old. It's one of my few problems with the game. A lot of the shrines have stuff you have to do on the overworld to get there though and those feel like the thing that you want.

See, I find the towns a total waste of my time. lol I don't really care about any of them and the villagers aren't too interesting. They all feel same-y to me and watered down from the previous games.

I've gotten through 2 Ganon Blights which... were fine. But they don't have a lot of personality to them. They're just generic elemental things. They don't feel necessarily as epic as I'd like and I never felt a huge sense of accomplishment from beating them since they were super basic. I've beaten plenty of the giant cyclops things though and they don't feel terribly exciting. I beat one Lynel so far but it didn't really feel exciting to me either? I miss the presentation of the bosses too, ya know? Where they did something as simple as Gohma and made it seem really special. Lynels are just assholes in the overworld that hurt you a lot.

I think for the shrines I would've really liked if they mostly just led underground or into a cave or something along those lines. Or they're just a big ol' hole in the ground. I dunno, something specific to the area. I think giving them a different interior design would have helped them a lot too.

Edit: Hell, just give me some of these trials on the overworld too. Where you don't realize it's a super special shrine trial, or you need to do something to make it pop up in front of you.

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I'm hoping BotW2 goes in the complete opposite direction (very small overworld, huge dungeons that are entirely based on unique item usage to navigate) but we'll see.

Also, I take back my list from earlier. Epyo was right. If you're looking for something cool to do, you're not going to find it. You've experienced the game, and while there is plenty to find and do, your experience isn't going to change.

The only things I'd really recommend at this point are the quests to enter the Divine Beasts (don't complete them unless you care about the story), and then go fight Ganon. If you care about story, memories are good to get too, but that's probably it.

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You could honestly probably quit playing it and not miss out on anything. The other bosses arent any more interesting and the ending is pretty lame too. The memories arent worth anything either unless you want to hear more of the dreadful voice acting.

If you arent feeling it now you never will. Trust me. I started off really liking the game up until my first DB and then got really bored of the repetition/sameness of everything and lack of reward for wandering around in a big empty sandbox. You wont really find anything that makes the trip feel worth it and the payoff at the end of the game isnt there. Its not the worst Zelda Ive played, but its one I dont care to revisit and Ive got no interest whatsoever in BotW2 unless it somehow manages to be the exact opposite kind of game which is extremely unlikely given how much people seemingly loved the first.

Sorry, I didn't think my "this game isn't for you" line was offensive! I won't say such things to people in the future =] Or I should word it differently like skullbone suggested or something.

But I do think some games are not for everybody though, right?? For example, if someone was a Warcraft 3 fan, and they started playing DotA, and posted "I really don't like working as a team in multiplayer games. Also I'm looking for a game with base building, where's that mode in here?" then I really don't think DotA is a game for them.

Breath of the Wild is the same for a lot of people--there aren't big dungeons, there aren't awesome bosses, there aren't really even any individual moments that I think are very impressive...

(...unless you find them yourself! At least for me, finding something interesting by chance, multiplies the impressiveness of it by ten.)

And I do love the game--it's my #2 of all time! But I just don't think it's a game about cool parts.

Another one of my favorite games of all time "Peggle", is the same way--the individual levels in Peggle are pretty much uninteresting. It's not a game about good moments or levels. If someone isn't enjoying Peggle at all, and asks "which levels are the good ones I can skip to", I think that person should probably just stop playing...

...

But also...the original question: "What are some legitimately interesting quests or good rewards I should seek out and where are they?"

Is that really something you can ask about a game?? Doesn't that doom yourself not to enjoy it? It feels like asking someone about a movie "Hey can someone tell me what the climax is and what timestamp it's at?"

Maybe for a few movies that would actually work. But for lots of 'em it certainly would not!

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Epyo posted...

Sorry, I didn't think my "this game isn't for you" line was offensive! I won't say such things to people in the future =] Or I should word it differently like skullbone suggested or something.

Nah, you're good man. Probably just need to phrase it differently next time. Don't sweat it.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

The only things I'd really recommend at this point are the quests to enter the Divine Beasts (don't complete them unless you care about the story), and then go fight Ganon. If you care about story, memories are good to get too, but that's probably it.

I do like the memory stuff a lot actually. I think I'll end up doing the last two towers I have now that I have cold protection, try to do all the shrines (unless I get bored), and then get the memories.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

the fact that the world is so huge and lacks as much personality

Ok, I'm still catching up on this topic but I have to stop here for a sec cause holy shit I literally cannot possibly disagree with this more. Like...what...?

Edit: Sorry. I just think BotW's world is the best designed in any game. Like it feels like every single rock and tree placement and hill or valley was all purposefully placed or created that way by the developers. Exploring and experiencing that world was amazing, and it's the number one game I wish I could experience again, as if it's my first time.

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Here's a fun tip to make the loading screen while exiting a shrine much shorter (on nintendo switch only I bet). After you close the dialog box that explains what a spirit orb is again, don't press Skip again right away... Instead, wait for the monk to start turning green, and wait for the camera to start pulling back... As soon as you see the camera moving at all, press Skip. Boom, short loading screen.

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Wow, PrivateBiscuit1 just as dumb in this topic as in TLoU2 topics. What a shocker.
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Mac Arrowny posted...

Wow, PrivateBiscuit1 just as dumb in this topic as in TLoU2 topics. What a shocker.

Lmao wow.

Mac Arrowny coming in here hot. I'm sorry someone with different opinions on video games upsets you so much. Maybe when you calm down you can discuss it with the rest of the adults.

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And we almost went two pages without a BotW discussion devolving into petty insults. *throws confetti*

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Waluigi1 posted...

I just think BotW's world is the best designed in any game. Like it feels like every single rock and tree placement and hill or valley was all purposefully placed or created that way by the developers. Exploring and experiencing that world was amazing

I agree. Every landmark is meticulously placed so you can always find your way around without using a map or the compass or anything and it's brilliant.

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Mac Arrowny posted...

Wow, PrivateBiscuit1 just as dumb in this topic as in TLoU2 topics. What a shocker.

knock it off please

Waluigi1 posted...

Ok, I'm still catching up on this topic but I have to stop here for a sec cause holy shit I literally cannot possibly disagree with this more. Like...what...?

Edit: Sorry. I just think BotW's world is the best designed in any game. Like it feels like every single rock and tree placement and hill or valley was all purposefully placed or created that way by the developers. Exploring and experiencing that world was amazing, and it's the number one game I wish I could experience again, as if it's my first time.

I do agree with this take though haha. Like I have to admit I'm sort of bowled over when they say BotW's world lacks personality. It's a matter of opinion, of course, but I have a really hard time understanding where it's coming from because I also had this experience with the world and when I see certain takes about BotW it makes me feel like I'm going slightly crazy

I mostly just feel bad when people don't have an experience as good as I did, though

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Lmao wow.

Mac Arrowny coming in here hot. I'm sorry someone with different opinions on video games upsets you so much. Maybe when you calm down you can discuss it with the rest of the adults.

I imagine he's referring to your overreaction to Epyo's post from the first page.

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HanOfTheNekos posted...

I imagine he's referring to your overreaction to Epyo's post from the first page.

You're giving him entirely too much credit.

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That's an incredibly strange response?

(not that my post wasn't strange, I'm a little drunk)

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Zelda is about dungeons and puzzles.

BotW took away real dungeons and puzzles and left only very extremely watered down versions.

Weapon durability takes away all sense of reward, and ultimately makes battles pointless ala Sticker Star and Color Splash since most enemy drops aren't nearly as good as what you use up to kill them. (Plus the royal weapons found in Hyrule Castle are better than most other things anyway.)

Rain exists merely to hinder exploration. In a game that offers ONLY exploration and nothing else. They added rain..... just to bring the entire game to a grinding halt. In a game where everything already takes a long time because of how large and empty the world is.

Switching from tapping the lock-on button once to lock-on to being forced to hold down the button to maintain lock is insufferable.

Enemies like Talus and Lynels are just high HP punching bags that exist to make you burn through multiple weapons just to kill them.

The voice acting is exceedingly bad. Nintendo couldn't even pay for real voice actors for one of their top franchises yet got Christina Fucking Vee for a Fire Emblem remake they practically set up to fail.

The scientist who helps repair the Shiekah Slate is another one of those "I look like a little girl but I'm really over 100 years old!" lolis that anime relies way too much on nowadays. Ugh.

The ultimate reward for finding all the Korok seeds is literally shitty. THAT is what you get for actually exploring the large empty plains and getting everything. Shit. Literal shit.

BotW is not Zelda. BotW is not revolutionary. (It pretty much just copied every other "open world" game. Even weapon durability game from Drakkhen, one of the earliest "open world" games but was hated at the time since no one liked large empty worlds back then.) BotW is not even good in the slightest.

It's especially sad to see this is what Zelda has been reduced to after the recent OoT source code leaks and seeing how much more ambitious Nintendo used to be. They had much bigger plans but had to give up on so much for OoT. I doubt they had to give up anything for BotW. It hardly has any real content as is.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

That's an incredibly strange response?

(not that my post wasn't strange, I'm a little drunk)

I'm saying he's an incredibly belligerent individual and it's doubtful that crossed his mind.

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Man, what happened to Biscuit in the last year

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scarletspeed7 posted...

Man, what happened to Biscuit in the last year

Bro, way too much to get into here.

But I'm at my happiest now, despite apparently questionable tastes in video games!

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I'm saying he's an incredibly belligerent individual and it's doubtful that crossed his mind.

I mean, you're pretty belligerent too...

But more importantly...

Endgame posted...

Switching from tapping the lock-on button once to lock-on to being forced to hold down the button to maintain lock is insufferable.

What trash gamer doesn't use hold-lock?

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Oh shit we've summoned Endgame time to bail

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