Board 8 > King of Fighters 2020 (NOT MERCS) R1D24: Marisa Kirisame vs DEATH (High)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Welcome to the King of Fighters 2020 (NOT MERCS) Simulated Character Battle Tournament!

The game is simple. The two* listed characters are placed in an (imaginary) location with a variety of (imaginary) environments, kind of like a picture in a child's schoolbook that describes different types of geological features. Within a ten mile radius, there is an (imaginary) urban downtown, exurbs, plains, snow-clad mountains at the edge, dry plains, etc. Fighters start wherever is most appropriate for them, but feel increasingly compelled to seek out their opponent and fight. Strong-willed fighters can try to hold out in their chosen environment for longer... eventually, all will succumb and actively search for the other to battle.

To participate, just vote in bold for whichever character you believe will win. Giving reasoning is optional, but please be polite and read what others have said and carefully make your decision. I'll ping the nominators (they can opt out) to give arguments if they wish.

Results/Discussion: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/78797189

TODAY'S PARTICIPANTS:
Marisa Kirisame (Touhou)

A human mage versed in Western and Eastern magic, Marisa Kirisame boasts highly destructive magic that is limited in finesse and utility

vs

D (Discworld)

The anthropormorphic embodiment of (non-rodent) mortality, D does not kill, merely collect. His supernatural abilities are modest and he cannot end a life via only thought; if he wants you dead, he can only make it so via relatively mundane means... but he is immortal, and very patient.

@trdl23

FIGHT

---

It's been a hot minute since I last read any of the Death Discworld books, so I may be mistaken in his scope or powers. IIRC, his supernatural skills boil roughly down to being able to make himself intangible, messing with time a bit, and perhaps some form of teleportation/omnipresence. If he wants to kill somebody, he can reach inside them and stop their heart, or swing that big ol' scythe around, a tactic that probably isn't a good match against a character who can fly. However, I doubt Marisa has the kind of skill to harm him, and if any character deserves to win by just waiting for the opponent to die, it's D.

---

Marisa's all about raw force (fast flight, giant lasers, bullet spam, black holes) and I'm not sure how well that works against literally DEATH. But I only read Good Omens so I don't have a whole lot to go on.
---

If I'm not mistaken, you can't conventionally kill DEATH based on Hogfather? Like you specifically have to whittle down belief and fear in him on a grander scale, and then either slowly starve him, or have absolutely zero belief in his power or ability.

Hogfather is basically all revolved around a plot to murder the Discworld equivalent of Santa Claus, and DEATH is mentioned in the same, "kill this personified metaphysical concept" fashion. I'm not sure if Marisa is the kind of person who would look at DEATH, be told it was DEATH, and say "... yeah you got no power over me".

However, I 100% believe that DEATH will play a far more rad and metal version of whatever Touhou theme is playing by summoning a guitar made out of the pure desire of the masses for rocking music.

---

Kamekguy posted...

I'm not sure if Marisa is the kind of person who would look at DEATH, be told it was DEATH, and say "... yeah you got no power over me".

touhou games feature plenty of conceptual and weird enemies, pretty sure there's at least one manifestation of death in there. and even if not, definitely things on a similar conceptual range. she has definitely gone directly into the underworld, the netherworld, the land of the dead... I'm pretty sure not all of these were even the same place. she's just had a reason to visit multiple similar types of places and was never deterred by any shinigami or other types of spirits. Marisa's dialogue is pretty much always flippant and sarcastic when approaching bosses. so I highly doubt she'd be intimidated by the opponent in this case. she'd probably just act like death is not big deal and be like 'oh great so now I have to defeat this guy if I want to advance.'

not saying this would give her the win on its own, per se, I know nothing of discworld, but there's no way she'd lose over something as minor as this. touhou protagonists are repeatedly shown to go up against conceptual and metaphyisical beings with time and physics (maybe even reality) warping powers, and virtually never are scared or worried about the power level or power sets of their opponents.

edit: to summarize, in case I'm being unclear, she is DEFINITELY the type of person who would believe that someone calling themselves the 'manifestation of death' really has no power over her... and has defeated opponents who make similar boasts (even if true!) in the past.


---

On top of that she's looking to become immortal herself, and lives in a universe where that's entirely possible, giving her even less of a reason to care.

---

The problem is Death doesn't care, and I don't think Marisa can do anything to Death. Death can appear anywhere he wants, ignore magic (Death is more real than magic) and if needed can cut wo / rds with Death's scythe. This is either death's win or mechanically a draw. Mind you Death could have read Marisa's book. (He has the books of everyone that lives after all.) But mechanically, I don't see this being a fight that Marisa wins, and Death cares about to try.

Would Death go after someone trying to become immortal and stop them, or would he still not care and just leave them to whatever they're doing? I could absolutely see her attaining immortality just to laugh in the face of someone who calls themselves Death

---

Kamekguy posted...

I'm not sure if Marisa is the kind of person who would look at DEATH, be told it was DEATH, and say "... yeah you got no power over me".

honestly, Marisa would say this to basically any enemy in pre-fight dialogue. (I'm not sure if this counts as metaphysical rejection. it's just pre-fight trash talk. but she would genuinely believe it.)
---

Shonen_Bat posted...

Would Death go after someone trying to become immortal and stop them, or would he still not care and just leave them to whatever they're doing? I could absolutely see her attaining immortality just to laugh in the face of someone who calls themselves Death

how would she do this

---

by researching magic that stops her from aging, or needing to eat, sleep etc

she gets by in a world full of gods, monsters, and Reimu just by constantly working to learn magic that makes her better than them, she could do this with enough time

---

Alone, in an environment with no magical texts or resources available while a phase-walking, immortal reaper is hunting her and while still requiring food and sleep before she figures out the right spells?

---

Doubt Death would care, although there's always the dumb idea of trying to remove Death from the equation as becoming immortal (doesn't work) I just don't think Marisa is up to fighting Death and Death isn't one that will kill. He is way too lucky as well to lose any games of chance (this Death would not lose to Bill and Ted except on purpose) (See book where he only had four ones versus four queens)

For the purposes of these matches, D will kill, or at least incapacitate for a victory. IIRC he did in the first Discworld book, and doesn't in general not because he can't, but because it's not his job and he doesn't want to.

---

Now it's been said that Death will try to go after her and kill her with his scythe and it's been said that he won't care enough and will just wait for her to die naturally, which one of those is true?

Either way she usually works on her magic alone and does most of her research from scratch so these circumstances aren't slowing her down enough to matter. She treats being told something is impossible as a challenge, and if her opponent is literally death she'll become immortal just to spite him.

Oh, he will fight? His blurb straight up says he'd rather not, but alright.

---

A disaster of a matchup and topic. Person who relies entirely on brute force stolen-and-enhanced arcane magic to fight (and usually wins with it) versus one of my fundamental properties is that I no-sell magic but I really dont want to fight you because that isnt my job. Marisa cant win and Death wont win.

Marisa will try to fight, figure out she isnt doing crap, and retreat for further study. Remember shes so smart and industrious, she is able to hang with Reimu, who literally has canon plot armor. Death will not pursue because she is by definition not a threat to him, and I would argue Deaths will to resist the growing urge to fight is immeasurable. Marisa will study up on becoming immortal, potentially figuring out the Hourai Elixir, and then they just harass each other for eternity like Mokou and Kaguya.

Draw.

Seriously, lets not put enemies like Death in a fighting series. If youre trying to be better than Mercs, dont make one of the few mistakes mercs tends to avoid.

---

I feel pretty much the same, this Death should have no interest in killing her and in fact would probably be actively against the idea since he seems to have a soft spot for humanity, and if there's one character in this that wouldn't be compelled to fight it would be him.

Their banter after Marisa becomes immortal would be incredible, though.

Draw.

---

Death

---

I buy Death resisting the compulsion to fight for the entirety of Marisa's lifespan, but I don't buy Marisa figuring out immortality here

Death
---

Draw

---

Death I guess. It's more likely he wins than the other way around, anyway

---

I think what is key here is that Marisa cares a lot more than Death does. Death would get bored with their conflict pretty quickly once it is clear that they cannot hurt each other.

Marisa is a magical prodigy with great knowledge of the arcane and divine, and Death is far from the first cosmic being she has faced.She demonstrates a great ability to learn and I just do not buy that she dies of old age before she finds out some way to seal Death away with her magic.

Marisa

---

DEATH

Its literally death.
Hes literally immortal.
Shes literally not.

---

She is striving for immortality. Those kinds of people normally do so for fear of death.

Fear. Of. Death.

If she doesnt get immortality, Death wins.

In the brief she does not have immortality.

Death

---

PrinceKaro posted...

I think what is key here is that Marisa cares a lot more than Death does. Death would get bored with their conflict pretty quickly once it is clear that they cannot hurt each other.

this is true, she is going to be so mad that Death is no-selling all her best attacks. even without contest compulsion she is going to dedicate her life to defeating him

meanwhile Death does not care. at all.

but they're also the only company/companionship the other has

basically I love this dynamic and would watch this show
---

Death probably should win but I don't want to have this debate for next round too so Draw
---

Marisa doesn't fear death, not even slightly. She laughs in death's face every day, sometimes literally, and takes it for granted that she's going to be immortal someday. She probably cares about death less than most of this bracket, and her chances are being slept on big-time.

---

Is Marisa actually able to just...discover immortality in this random arena with "an (imaginary) urban downtown, exurbs, plains, snow-clad mountains at the edge, dry plains," etc.? I find that hard to believe.

Death doesn't have to kill her if he doesn't want to. He just needs to incapacitate her. Which, according to NFUN, he's done in the past.

Death.

Also, Death won't just sit around. The rules state all combatants eventually get the urge to fight. If Death doesn't want to kill Marisa, he can at least take her out, whereas I'm not seeing anything she can do to him.

trdl23 posted...

If youre trying to be better than Mercs, dont make one of the few mistakes mercs tends to avoid.

where did i say i was trying to better than mercs lmao? i clearly advertised this as "not mercs"

---

rwlh posted...

Also, Death won't just sit around. The rules state all combatants eventually get the urge to fight.

yeah, but "eventually" is going to be quite different for Death, to whom a mortal lifespan is pretty whatever. like maybe in a few centuries he'd be like fiiiine let's fight
---