Current Events > Cosmetic DLC is still shit

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KingWhiteKnight 07/20/20 8:09:14 AM #1:	Getting unique stuff from expansion packs or new campaigns I get. But a cash shop that sells stuff you can't ever earn ingame is dogshit on principle even if it's only cosmetic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCjuFpQ3EeA <cite>KingWhiteKnight posted [p:942341381] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote> Getting unique stuff from expansion packs or new campaigns I get. But a cash shop that sells stuff you can't ever earn ingame is dogshit on principle even if it's only cosmetic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCjuFpQ3EeA </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vicious_Dios 07/20/20 8:13:36 AM #2:	But that horse armor, though. --- S / K / Y / N / E Twitch/YouTube/GT: *Adzeta* <cite>Vicious_Dios posted [p:942341445] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>But that horse armor, though. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jcmason 07/20/20 8:14:48 AM #3:	Meh, it doesnt bother me, but maybe thats because it also doesnt really interest me. Maybe if there was something that I did really want, I might feel differently. --- https://join.worldcommunitygrid.org?recruiterId=545336 i7-7700K\|H80\|Z270\|8GB 1070 GTX\|16GB DDR4 @3200MHz\|Corsair Graphite Series 600T White <cite>jcmason posted [p:942341463] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>Meh, it doesnt bother me, but maybe thats because it also doesnt really interest me. Maybe if there was something that I did really want, I might feel differently. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Cthulhu_Fhtagn 07/20/20 8:15:08 AM #4:	How do you feel about the way Odyssey handled it --- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn <cite>Cthulhu_Fhtagn posted [p:942341471] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>How do you feel about the way Odyssey handled it </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
dib153 07/20/20 8:19:36 AM #5:	Titanfall 2 handled it pretty well --- "Dib is my new hero. Epic insult man, epic to the max" ~ Drakona <cite>dib153 posted [p:942341557] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>Titanfall 2 handled it pretty well </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
whitelytning 07/20/20 8:24:32 AM #6:	KingWhiteKnight posted... a cash shop that sells stuff you can't ever earn ingame is dogshit on principle even if it's only cosmetic. Why? --- ************************************************ https://imgur.com/iZdWIKJ <cite>whitelytning posted [p:942341640] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>KingWhiteKnight posted... </cite> <quote>a cash shop that sells stuff you can't ever earn ingame is dogshit on principle even if it's only cosmetic.</quote> Why? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lurk 07/20/20 8:24:55 AM #7:	Vicious_Dios posted... But that horse armor, though. <cite>lurk posted [p:942341646] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>Vicious_Dios posted... </cite> <quote>But that horse armor, though. </quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KingWhiteKnight 07/20/20 8:29:10 AM #8:	Cthulhu_Fhtagn posted... How do you feel about the way Odyssey handled it dib153 posted... Titanfall 2 handled it pretty well idk never played those cant talk about it <cite>KingWhiteKnight posted [p:942341715] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>Cthulhu_Fhtagn posted... </cite> <quote>How do you feel about the way Odyssey handled it</quote> dib153 posted... </cite> <quote>Titanfall 2 handled it pretty well</quote> idk never played those cant talk about it </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
specialkid8 07/20/20 8:45:03 AM #9:	Meh, as long as they put the money back into the games. If some rube wants to spend hundreds of dollars on new hats and that means I get free map packs or something, go for it. <cite>specialkid8 posted [p:942342023] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>Meh, as long as they put the money back into the games. If some rube wants to spend hundreds of dollars on new hats and that means I get free map packs or something, go for it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DeadBankerDream 07/20/20 8:55:27 AM #10:	You can't just drop a TB video on me like that, man. I have emotions, you know! --- "That thick shaft that causes women to shudder!" <cite>DeadBankerDream posted [p:942342262] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>You can't just drop a TB video on me like that, man. I have emotions, you know!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Cthulhu_Fhtagn 07/20/20 2:59:25 PM #11:	KingWhiteKnight posted... idk never played those cant talk about it Odyssey has a currency you can earn in game that can be spent at this one shop which sells cosmetic dlc items. The shop only sells like one of the dlc items a week but it changes which one is for sale. Or you can pay real money to buy the cosmetic dlc. --- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn <cite>Cthulhu_Fhtagn posted [p:942357727] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>KingWhiteKnight posted... </cite> <quote>idk never played those cant talk about it</quote> Odyssey has a currency you can earn in game that can be spent at this one shop which sells cosmetic dlc items. The shop only sells like one of the dlc items a week but it changes which one is for sale. Or you can pay real money to buy the cosmetic dlc. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AzurexNightmare 07/20/20 3:01:34 PM #12:	How can someone get mad about cosmetic DLC LMFAO Like wow. I thought this was one thing we were all in agreement with. You know games cost money to develop, right? You know these businesses aren't charities, right? Some people man. Lmao. --- Latest Game Completed 100% Resident Evil VII <cite>AzurexNightmare posted [p:942357827] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>How can someone get mad about cosmetic DLC LMFAO Like wow. I thought this was one thing we were all in agreement with. You know games cost money to develop, right? You know these businesses aren't charities, right? Some people man. Lmao. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Solar_Crimson 07/20/20 3:04:59 PM #13:	Yeah, but it made Koei-Tecmo millions. --- I often wonder if we are growing as a people... or in fact, regressing. <cite>Solar_Crimson posted [p:942357985] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>Yeah, but it made Koei-Tecmo millions. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AzurexNightmare 07/20/20 3:08:51 PM #14:	Cthulhu_Fhtagn posted... Odyssey has a currency you can earn in game that can be spent at this one shop which sells cosmetic dlc items. The shop only sells like one of the dlc items a week but it changes which one is for sale. Or you can pay real money to buy the cosmetic dlc. AC? --- Latest Game Completed 100% Resident Evil VII <cite>AzurexNightmare posted [p:942358150] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>Cthulhu_Fhtagn posted... </cite> <quote>Odyssey has a currency you can earn in game that can be spent at this one shop which sells cosmetic dlc items. The shop only sells like one of the dlc items a week but it changes which one is for sale. Or you can pay real money to buy the cosmetic dlc.</quote>AC? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Cthulhu_Fhtagn 07/20/20 3:10:01 PM #15:	Yes --- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn <cite>Cthulhu_Fhtagn posted [p:942358200] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>Yes </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DeadBankerDream 07/20/20 3:12:12 PM #16:	AzurexNightmare posted... How can someone get mad about cosmetic DLC LMFAO Like wow. I thought this was one thing we were all in agreement with. You know games cost money to develop, right? You know these businesses aren't charities, right? Some people man. Lmao. The cancer is loot boxes and pay to win. But some people here are so backwards (apparently) that they will probably defend p2w and attack cosmetic DLC. Holy crap some people will never be happy. Oh wait, just saw your username. Troll probably. Who would ever call themselves King White Knight? Blocked. Are you having a seizure or you parodying dumb people? --- "That thick shaft that causes women to shudder!" <cite>DeadBankerDream posted [p:942358294] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>AzurexNightmare posted...</cite> <quote>How can someone get mad about cosmetic DLC LMFAO Like wow. I thought this was one thing we were all in agreement with. You know games cost money to develop, right? You know these businesses aren't charities, right? Some people man. Lmao. The cancer is loot boxes and pay to win. But some people here are so backwards (apparently) that they will probably defend p2w and attack cosmetic DLC. Holy crap some people will never be happy. Oh wait, just saw your username. Troll probably. Who would ever call themselves King White Knight? Blocked. </quote> Are you having a seizure or you parodying dumb people?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AzurexNightmare 07/20/20 3:13:14 PM #17:	Cthulhu_Fhtagn posted... Yes I got the platinum in that game and I got 100 percent in every single DLC and I was never awarded helix credits or whatever they're called. How do you get them? --- Latest Game Completed 100% Resident Evil VII <cite>AzurexNightmare posted [p:942358343] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>Cthulhu_Fhtagn posted... </cite> <quote>Yes</quote>I got the platinum in that game and I got 100 percent in every single DLC and I was never awarded helix credits or whatever they're called. How do you get them? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lordgold666 07/20/20 3:14:18 PM #18:	Agreed bc once theres cosmetic dlc the quality of base game cosmetics become a joke. Nothing but lazy reskins and excuses to do less for more $ --- "May the Father of Understanding guide you." http://error1355.com/ce/Lordgold666.html <cite>Lordgold666 posted [p:942358386] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>Agreed bc once theres cosmetic dlc the quality of base game cosmetics become a joke. Nothing but lazy reskins and excuses to do less for more $ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AzurexNightmare 07/20/20 3:15:51 PM #19:	Lordgold666 posted... Agreed bc once theres cosmetic dlc the quality of base game cosmetics become a joke. Nothing but lazy reskins and excuses to do less for more $ They need money. They're a business. Also, because people online like to take things to the extreme I'm gonna say in advance I don't support shit like EA with Battlefront. However cosmetic DLC harms nobody. Some of you just seem to want everything for free. --- Latest Game Completed 100% Resident Evil VII <cite>AzurexNightmare posted [p:942358461] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>Lordgold666 posted... </cite> <quote>Agreed bc once theres cosmetic dlc the quality of base game cosmetics become a joke. Nothing but lazy reskins and excuses to do less for more $</quote>They need money. They're a business. Also, because people online like to take things to the extreme I'm gonna say in advance I don't support shit like EA with Battlefront. However cosmetic DLC harms nobody. Some of you just seem to want everything for free. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lordgold666 07/20/20 3:25:36 PM #20:	AzurexNightmare posted... I got the platinum in that game and I got 100 percent in every single DLC and I was never awarded helix credits or whatever they're called. How do you get them? In ac odyssey, you can earn the dlc currency, orichalcum, by completing the daily quest(x10 each), weekly quests(x40 each), or by finding them in the over world. Unsurprisingly, a map of the locations of orichalcum isnt included in the base game, but for sale for $3.99. Since the inventory of the in game dlc item merchant changes each tues(w the high probability of repeats of the same items again and again), youre only limited to what they choose to give you and you have to jump through flaming hoops to actually get them --- "May the Father of Understanding guide you." http://error1355.com/ce/Lordgold666.html <cite>Lordgold666 posted [p:942358905] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>AzurexNightmare posted... </cite> <quote>I got the platinum in that game and I got 100 percent in every single DLC and I was never awarded helix credits or whatever they're called. How do you get them?</quote>In ac odyssey, you can earn the dlc currency, orichalcum, by completing the daily quest(x10 each), weekly quests(x40 each), or by finding them in the over world. Unsurprisingly, a map of the locations of orichalcum isnt included in the base game, but for sale for $3.99. Since the inventory of the in game dlc item merchant changes each tues(w the high probability of repeats of the same items again and again), youre only limited to what they choose to give you and you have to jump through flaming hoops to actually get them </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AzurexNightmare 07/20/20 3:27:33 PM #21:	Lordgold666 posted... In ac odyssey, you can earn the dlc currency, orichalcum, by completing the daily quest(x10 each), weekly quests(x40 each), or by finding them in the over world. Unsurprisingly, a map of the locations of orichalcum isnt included in the base game, but for sale for $3.99. Since the inventory of the in game dlc item merchant changes each tues(w the high probability of repeats of the same items again and again), youre only limited to what they choose to give you and you have to jump through flaming hoops to actually get them Ah, I see. No wonder people were farming that stuff. I was happy with the armor they already had in the game (and the horse skins.) The dlc armor was cool and new enough to me and I had a blast with the content. --- Latest Game Completed 100% Resident Evil VII <cite>AzurexNightmare posted [p:942358983] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>Lordgold666 posted... </cite> <quote>In ac odyssey, you can earn the dlc currency, orichalcum, by completing the daily quest(x10 each), weekly quests(x40 each), or by finding them in the over world. Unsurprisingly, a map of the locations of orichalcum isnt included in the base game, but for sale for $3.99. Since the inventory of the in game dlc item merchant changes each tues(w the high probability of repeats of the same items again and again), youre only limited to what they choose to give you and you have to jump through flaming hoops to actually get them</quote>Ah, I see. No wonder people were farming that stuff. I was happy with the armor they already had in the game (and the horse skins.) The dlc armor was cool and new enough to me and I had a blast with the content. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lordgold666 07/20/20 3:28:32 PM #22:	AzurexNightmare posted... They need money. They're a business. Also, because people online like to take things to the extreme I'm gonna say in advance I don't support shit like EA with Battlefront. However cosmetic DLC harms nobody. Some of you just seem to want everything for free. Look at every outfit in the base game of odyssey as an example. All ugly reskins, while all the ones in the store are unique and are worth wearing. The quality of the base game cosmetics goes down once you try to nickel and dime people on dlc --- "May the Father of Understanding guide you." http://error1355.com/ce/Lordgold666.html <cite>Lordgold666 posted [p:942359034] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>AzurexNightmare posted... </cite> <quote>They need money. They're a business. Also, because people online like to take things to the extreme I'm gonna say in advance I don't support shit like EA with Battlefront. However cosmetic DLC harms nobody. Some of you just seem to want everything for free.</quote>Look at every outfit in the base game of odyssey as an example. All ugly reskins, while all the ones in the store are unique and are worth wearing. The quality of the base game cosmetics goes down once you try to nickel and dime people on dlc </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AzurexNightmare 07/20/20 3:33:28 PM #23:	Lordgold666 posted... Look at every outfit in the base game of odyssey as an example. All ugly reskins, while all the ones in the store are unique and are worth wearing. The quality of the base game cosmetics goes down once you try to nickel and dime people on dlc A lot of the armor did look the same yeah, but I enjoyed a lot of it too. Nickle and diming on purpose is a little scummy, but it's still Nickle and diming. It's cheap. These businesses are always gonna be "evil" to some degree because they want money. And this is the far lesser of two evils. --- Latest Game Completed 100% Resident Evil VII <cite>AzurexNightmare posted [p:942359230] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>Lordgold666 posted... </cite> <quote>Look at every outfit in the base game of odyssey as an example. All ugly reskins, while all the ones in the store are unique and are worth wearing. The quality of the base game cosmetics goes down once you try to nickel and dime people on dlc</quote>A lot of the armor did look the same yeah, but I enjoyed a lot of it too. Nickle and diming on purpose is a little scummy, but it's still Nickle and diming. It's cheap. These businesses are always gonna be "evil" to some degree because they want money. And this is the far lesser of two evils. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Blue_Inigo 07/20/20 3:35:35 PM #24:	I remember when cosmetics were just something you unlocked in games. Super Mario Odyssey is a good modern example of unlockables in games --- "This is your last dance." <cite>Blue_Inigo posted [p:942359311] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>I remember when cosmetics were just something you unlocked in games. Super Mario Odyssey is a good modern example of unlockables in games </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SolidShadow3 07/20/20 3:47:18 PM #25:	I rather cosmetic DLC than having to buy the second half of a game. --- By Odin's beard! <cite>SolidShadow3 posted [p:942359838] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>I rather cosmetic DLC than having to buy the second half of a game. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AzurexNightmare 07/20/20 3:49:23 PM #26:	SolidShadow3 posted... I rather cosmetic DLC than having to buy the second half of a game. This. Whining about cosmetic dlc is pretty useless in comparison. --- Latest Game Completed 100% Resident Evil VII <cite>AzurexNightmare posted [p:942359947] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>SolidShadow3 posted... </cite> <quote>I rather cosmetic DLC than having to buy the second half of a game.</quote>This. Whining about cosmetic dlc is pretty useless in comparison. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ModLogic 07/20/20 4:30:23 PM #27:	AzurexNightmare posted... You know games cost money to develop, right? You know these businesses aren't charities, right? most games compete with other titles in the same genre. alt costumes used to be standard in 3d fighters until fuckcom decided to sell that shit in sf4. thanks to anti consumer doormats defending their bullshit, it's infected other franchises too. STFU --- https://i.imgtc.com/PruZV73.png https://imgur.com/lbSi0U3 https://imgur.com/xaRYKZM https://imgur.com/ZngbqJn <cite>ModLogic posted [p:942361852] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>AzurexNightmare posted... </cite> <quote>You know games cost money to develop, right? You know these businesses aren't charities, right?</quote>most games compete with other titles in the same genre. alt costumes used to be standard in 3d fighters until fuckcom decided to sell that shit in sf4. thanks to anti consumer doormats defending their bullshit, it's infected other franchises too. STFU </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Prestoff 07/20/20 4:31:37 PM #28:	Valorant literally sold a dlc costume set for $100's. --- DI MOLTO! <cite>Prestoff posted [p:942361908] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>Valorant literally sold a dlc costume set for $100's. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KingWhiteKnight 07/20/20 4:33:23 PM #29:	SolidShadow3 posted... I rather cosmetic DLC than having to buy the second half of a game. Lesser of two evils but still evil <cite>KingWhiteKnight posted [p:942361991] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>SolidShadow3 posted... </cite> <quote>I rather cosmetic DLC than having to buy the second half of a game.</quote> Lesser of two evils but still evil </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JoeDangIt 07/20/20 4:38:55 PM #30:	Worst thing is the price, why would I pay $10 to buy a new spacesuit in a $30 game? <cite>JoeDangIt posted [p:942362242] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>Worst thing is the price, why would I pay $10 to buy a new spacesuit in a $30 game? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
specialkid8 07/20/20 4:57:30 PM #31:	Lordgold666 posted... Look at every outfit in the base game of odyssey as an example. All ugly reskins, while all the ones in the store are unique and are worth wearing. The quality of the base game cosmetics goes down once you try to nickel and dime people on dlc In all the games like this I've seen the stuff in the store is over the top gaudy junk and the diversity in the base game is fine, it just looks boring compared to neon fruit bowl hats. <cite>specialkid8 posted [p:942363086] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>Lordgold666 posted... </cite> <quote>Look at every outfit in the base game of odyssey as an example. All ugly reskins, while all the ones in the store are unique and are worth wearing. The quality of the base game cosmetics goes down once you try to nickel and dime people on dlc</quote>In all the games like this I've seen the stuff in the store is over the top gaudy junk and the diversity in the base game is fine, it just looks boring compared to neon fruit bowl hats. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 07/20/20 4:58:22 PM #32:	...i rarely even use unlocked skins. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:942363126] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>...i rarely even use unlocked skins. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AzurexNightmare 07/20/20 5:23:46 PM #33:	JoeDangIt posted... Worst thing is the price, why would I pay $10 to buy a new spacesuit in a $30 game? Guess what? You don't have to. Shocking, I know. --- Latest Game Completed 100% Resident Evil VII <cite>AzurexNightmare posted [p:942364234] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>JoeDangIt posted... </cite> <quote>Worst thing is the price, why would I pay $10 to buy a new spacesuit in a $30 game?</quote>Guess what? You don't have to. Shocking, I know. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pfh1001 07/21/20 8:24:32 PM #34:	ModLogic posted... most games compete with other titles in the same genre. alt costumes used to be standard in 3d fighters until fuckcom decided to sell that shit in sf4. thanks to anti consumer doormats defending their bullshit, it's infected other franchises too. STFU Yeah, this. I remember the golden days of Street Fighter Alpha 2 where everybody in game had 6 outfits-- admittedly some of them were palette swaps, but now it would be $29.99 for a seasonal DLC pack of outfits. <cite>pfh1001 posted [p:942415857] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>ModLogic posted...</cite> <quote>most games compete with other titles in the same genre. alt costumes used to be standard in 3d fighters until fuckcom decided to sell that shit in sf4. thanks to anti consumer doormats defending their bullshit, it's infected other franchises too. STFU</quote> Yeah, this. I remember the golden days of Street Fighter Alpha 2 where everybody in game had 6 outfits-- admittedly some of them were palette swaps, but now it would be $29.99 for a seasonal DLC pack of outfits.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
I4NRulez 07/21/20 9:43:17 PM #35:	Eh i dont really care about that since most games dont force you to buy it. Like Destiny for example. You can buy shaders, ornaments, dances, etc. It doesnt effect your in game leveling. Then you have games like GTA, NBA 2K, FIFA. Where you can get an advantage based off how much youre willing to spend --- The night brims with defiled scum,and is permeated by their rotten stench. Just think. Now you're all set to hunt and kill to your heart's content. <cite>I4NRulez posted [p:942418500] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>Eh i dont really care about that since most games dont force you to buy it. Like Destiny for example. You can buy shaders, ornaments, dances, etc. It doesnt effect your in game leveling. Then you have games like GTA, NBA 2K, FIFA. Where you can get an advantage based off how much youre willing to spend </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HylianFox 07/21/20 9:59:38 PM #36:	yeah, I mean this is one thing that's currently annoying my about SSBU is having to buy the Mii costumes they're like a buck each, but it's the principle of the thing. I shouldn't have to pay for stuff that has no real effect in-game other than appearance --- I like my beer cold, my TV loud, and my homosexuals FUH-LAMING! - Homer Simpson Don't be a turd. - Chris Pratt <cite>HylianFox posted [p:942419031] in Cosmetic D... [t:78858978]...</cite> <quote>yeah, I mean this is one thing that's currently annoying my about SSBU is having to buy the Mii costumes they're like a buck each, but it's the principle of the thing. I shouldn't have to pay for stuff that has no real effect in-game other than appearance </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Cosmetic DLC is still shit (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Cosmetic DLC is still shit