Poll of the Day > I feel like there needs to be a limit on wealth.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Why would you want to essentially force all of the people who create the most production and jobs to retire? That's a terrible idea

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Isnt that going to discourage innovation?

Revelation34 posted...

Sounds like jealousy to me.

OR it sounds like some people could solve all of our financial problems with a snap but instead like to just hide the solution and gather more while further widening the wealth gap. Stay in school, kid. Learn some economic basics and grow as a person.

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Solid Snake07 posted...

Why would you want to essentially force all of the people who create the most production and jobs to retire? That's a terrible idea

Nobody rich creates jobs. They take advantage of the desperate by paying them well below what theyre worth, taking the rest, and convincing dumb poor people that other poor people are to blame for there not being enough well-paying jobs.

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Trespasser2003 posted...

Nobody rich creates jobs. They take advantage of the desperate by paying them well below what theyre worth, taking the rest, and convincing dumb poor people that other poor people are to blame for there not being enough well-paying jobs.

......okay, I'll bite. So if entrepreneurs don't create jobs then who does?

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Trespasser2003 posted...

OR it sounds like some people could solve all of our financial problems with a snap but instead like to just hide the solution and gather more while further widening the wealth gap. Stay in school, kid. Learn some economic basics and grow as a person.

So even more jealousy.
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Trespasser2003 posted...

Stay in school, kid.

Maybe if you did you would be rich too rather than been salty for the rest of your life.


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I see the mindless brainwashed automatons have given their input. You have been trained to stay in place well.

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Trespasser2003 posted...

I see the mindless brainwashed automatons have given their input. You have been trained to stay in place well.

still waiting for you to share your vast economic knowledge and explain to me who creates jobs

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Solid Snake07 posted...

still waiting for you to share your vast economic knowledge and explain to me who creates jobs

No one person creates jobs, derrrr

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Trespasser2003 posted...

No one person creates jobs, derrrr

Judges?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0DGjXE_BQQ

Oh, I'm sorry, but that's incorrect. better luck next time

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Solid Snake07 posted...

Judges?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0DGjXE_BQQ

Oh, I'm sorry, but that's incorrect. better luck next time

So you send an application directly to Bezos when you want to work slave wages in a warehouse?

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Trespasser2003 posted...

So you send an application directly to Bezos when you want to work slave wages in a warehouse?

you'd send it to an Amazon human resources office filled with people he also created jobs for.

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Trespasser2003 posted...

I see the mindless brainwashed automatons have given their input. You have been trained to stay in place well.

Stay salty.

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Just need to tax properly and seriously think about some form of UBI or maybe just BI for those under a certain income level.

Also I agree with the following post. I've always thought that it should be law that successful companies pay a scaling % of the profits to their employees depending on their position so that the CEO can't just give all profit to themselves only. Honestly it should be hard to get a job working for a successful fast food or retail business rather than less successful fast food, or local restaurants or startups but this might change the system too much for dummies to easily get jobs because they have to look around more for openings. Although with some form of UBI or BI it would be easier to adjust to.

adjl posted...

The concept seems nice enough, but in practice, it'd be too easy to get around to make any real difference. Cap it at $1 billion, and you just get multibillionaires paying some random people $10,000 a year each to hold on to $500 million for them until they want to access it, or continuing to hide it in offshore tax havens like they currently do to avoid paying taxes on it, or even just giving it away to friends and family members instead of letting it be taxed away and used for public benefit. It wouldn't be impossible to make it work, but it's going to entail outfoxing a whole lot of very highly-paid accountants and lawyers, and the sheer cost of the audits required to enforce it long-term could very well outweigh the potential benefits.

Rather than a hard cap, if you want to cut down on wealth disparity, minimum wage should instead be defined as a percentage of the highest wage (including bonuses) in the company. If a CEO wants to make more money, they must first pay all of their bottom-rung staff more money as well (and, by extension, everyone else in between). Growth remains possible, just not to the explosive, exploitative degree that's currently standard, and that growth benefits everybody that contributes to it.

This is always the response to such ideas, but I think it fundamentally misrepresents the issue. The vast majority of people saying such things do feel that, for the most part, the financial elite have earned the privilege to live the rest of their lives in complete luxury. Nobody's saying they don't deserve to be rich. The problem is that they've often hoarded enough money to live thousands of such lives, more money than can ever possibly be justified as useful or meaningful for a single person, and their removal of that money from the economy is very bad for it.

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Solid Snake07 posted...

......okay, I'll bite. So if entrepreneurs don't create jobs then who does?

Did you really just equivocate every entrepreneur with the 0.1%?

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adjl posted...

Did you really just equivocate every entrepreneur with the 0.1%?

He said that nobody who's rich creates jobs, which is a totally braindead thing to say.

The top .1% are the top .1% because they own the vast majority of capital. It doesn't take a degree in economics to figure out that the people who own most of the capital are employing most of the labor.

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Solid Snake07 posted...

He said that nobody who's rich creates jobs, which is a totally braindead thing to say.

Very few rich people create jobs to the full extent of their ability, which is what the quotation marks used entail. Quite simply, you don't get that rich by actually paying people enough to live, and at that point, you're not "creating jobs" so much as you are exploiting the fact that people would rather eat occasionally than starve all the time. I've seen the quote tossed around that "if your employees are making more on unemployment than they are working for you, you're not a job creator, you're a poverty exploiter," and while the current inflated state of US unemployment makes that a bit debatable ($600/week is really quite a lot, and far more than is needed to cover cost of living in most parts of the US, so expecting every job in the country to beat that figure is unreasonable), the central gist of it remains true: Paying people less than they need to live is not something to be proud of, and you're in no position to act like you're doing the world a favour by doing so.

Quite simply, if "job creation" is supposed to be a positive thing, those jobs should be ones that people actually want to take, whether because they are good jobs to work in or because they pay well enough to incentivize choosing them over something else. If the jobs being created are being filled only because there's literally nothing else (generally because a large corporation has crowded out the better-paying competitors by undercutting them) and the only alternative is dying on the streets, that's not a positive thing, that's a fundamentally broken system.

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Trespasser2003 posted...

I see the mindless brainwashed automatons have given their input. You have been trained to stay in place well.

We're trained to call you out on being jealous about money somebody else has?
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Revelation34 posted...

We're trained to call you out on being jealous about money somebody else has?

In a sense. The doctrine of "work hard and you'll be rich" is a staple of American culture. The extension of that is the idea that everyone who is rich worked hard enough for it and therefore deserves to be that way, and that idea had been hammered into your head for your entire life. That you can't seem to entertain the possibility that there might be such a thing as "too rich" that is bad for the country's economy is a product of that teaching, as is the idea that anyone objecting to such inequality should be dismissed as merely being jealous.

If you do want to act like you have a more legitimate point than just parroting the Reaganomic doctrine you've been fed since birth, then by all means, answer the challenge you initially quoted ("Please, make the argument that that sort of wealth hoarding isnt immoral.") instead of resorting to "u jelly?".

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Solid Snake07 posted...

He said that nobody who's rich creates jobs, which is a totally braindead thing to say.

The top .1% are the top .1% because they own the vast majority of capital. It doesn't take a degree in economics to figure out that the people who own most of the capital are employing most of the labor.

So are we just ignoring the context of the conversation just so you can be pedantic and argumentative or what?

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adjl posted...

In a sense. The doctrine of "work hard and you'll be rich" is a staple of American culture. The extension of that is the idea that everyone who is rich worked hard enough for it and therefore deserves to be that way, and that idea had been hammered into your head for your entire life. That you can't seem to entertain the possibility that there might be such a thing as "too rich" that is bad for the country's economy is a product of that teaching, as is the idea that anyone objecting to such inequality should be dismissed as merely being jealous.

If you do want to act like you have a more legitimate point than just parroting the Reaganomic doctrine you've been fed since birth, then by all means, answer the challenge you initially quoted ("Please, make the argument that that sort of wealth hoarding isnt immoral.") instead of resorting to "u jelly?".

THANK YOU


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adjl posted...

In a sense. The doctrine of "work hard and you'll be rich" is a staple of American culture. The extension of that is the idea that everyone who is rich worked hard enough for it and therefore deserves to be that way, and that idea had been hammered into your head for your entire life. That you can't seem to entertain the possibility that there might be such a thing as "too rich" that is bad for the country's economy is a product of that teaching, as is the idea that anyone objecting to such inequality should be dismissed as merely being jealous.

If you do want to act like you have a more legitimate point than just parroting the Reaganomic doctrine you've been fed since birth, then by all means, answer the challenge you initially quoted ("Please, make the argument that that sort of wealth hoarding isnt immoral.") instead of resorting to "u jelly?".

There's no need. Only jealous people get butthurt over something somebody else has.
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Revelation34 posted...

There's no need. Only jealous people get butthurt over something somebody else has.

So you can't answer the challenge and are resorting to personal attacks to hide that fact. Got it.

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Revelation34 posted...

There's no need. Only jealous people get butthurt over something somebody else has.

Basically. I'm far from rich(duh!) but I also don't hate folk that are rich just because I didn't do what I should in life to become rich. I also certainly don't demand they stop been rich so I can make myself feel better. Some folk will forever be salty though.

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wwinterj25 posted...

so I can make myself feel better. Some folk will forever be salty though.

Um no, Im just sick of them leeching off the system. You understand that tax payers foot the bill for insane amounts of corporate welfare right? Not to mention companies run by rich families who dont pay enough for their employees to survive without being on welfare. Its not salt, its recognizing a massive fault in our system that has allowed it to get this far.

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Trespasser2003 posted...

Um no, Im just sick of them leeching off the system.

Yeah rich folk leach off the system for sure.

Its not salt

You're more salty than the sea and not as beautiful.


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When the "liberals" are anti liberty

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adjl posted...

Very few rich people create jobs to the full extent of their ability, which is what the quotation marks used entail. Quite simply, you don't get that rich by actually paying people enough to live, and at that point, you're not "creating jobs" so much as you are exploiting the fact that people would rather eat occasionally than starve all the time. I've seen the quote tossed around that "if your employees are making more on unemployment than they are working for you, you're not a job creator, you're a poverty exploiter," and while the current inflated state of US unemployment makes that a bit debatable ($600/week is really quite a lot, and far more than is needed to cover cost of living in most parts of the US, so expecting every job in the country to beat that figure is unreasonable), the central gist of it remains true: Paying people less than they need to live is not something to be proud of, and you're in no position to act like you're doing the world a favour by doing so.

Quite simply, if "job creation" is supposed to be a positive thing, those jobs should be ones that people actually want to take, whether because they are good jobs to work in or because they pay well enough to incentivize choosing them over something else. If the jobs being created are being filled only because there's literally nothing else (generally because a large corporation has crowded out the better-paying competitors by undercutting them) and the only alternative is dying on the streets, that's not a positive thing, that's a fundamentally broken system.

No one has the responsibility to "create jobs to the full extent of their ability". I'm a business owner and have employees. I employ them because the combination of the cost of their labor and my capital produces a profit, if it didn't then why would I employ them? At best I'm breaking even, but most likely I'm bleeding capital.

If you want to reap the full profit of your labor then you're more than welcome to save up or borrow your own capital and put your own money where your mouth is and take that risk for yourself.

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wwinterj25 posted...

Yeah rich folk leach off the system for sure.

LOL do you have any idea how many government subsidies go to corporations only for their CEOs to get raises?

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I agree and there needs to be a limit on political contributions as well because at the end of the day the fat cats can buy and control the US Government which is what is happening now. Wall Street's too big to fail banks are playing games with people's lives and their life savings and that should not be allowed to happen but it is happening. With immense wealth comes immense power and influence which allows a handful of people to control all of us.

The 2008 financial crisis was knowingly and purposely caused by Wall Street shenanigans in which they engaged in very murky investments that they knew were high risk yet they did it anyway. That led to the downfall of Lehman Brothers meanwhile after the dust settled, Wall Street robbed the country and the citizens to the tune of $12 and a half trillion dollars and that included people losing their homes and in same cases their entire life and retirement savings and not one of those guys went to prison and to top it all off they even conned the Treasury out of $750B which they used for bonuses and vacations and why American's keep falling for this kind of crap is beyond me.

We are all sheep being led to slaughter if we do not wake up.

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Trespasser2003 posted...

LOL do you have any idea how many government subsidies go to corporations only for their CEOs to get raises?

Corporate welfare programs shovel huge amounts of taxpayer money to corporations through inflated government contracts, subsidies, loan guarantees, etc.

There's over 150 programs that rich people leach off of and they are so varied and embedded that we actually grow up thinking that the government interferes with the free enterprise system, rather than subsidizing it.

Now the thing that irks me most is the fact that people will berate welfare people who get a stipend of food stamps etc yet they won't utter a word in regards to the corps who rob tax payers to the tune of billions every year,


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BUMPED2002 posted...

end of the day the fat cats can buy and control the US Government

My cat has nothing to do with this.
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BUMPED2002 posted...

Now the thing that irks me most is the fact that people will berate welfare people who get a stipend of food stamps etc yet they won't utter a word in regards to the corps who rob tax payers to the tune of billions every year,

I am starting to learn that some of these people genuinely dont understand what this even means.

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