Board 8 > Kotaku details Paper Mario: The Origami King's battle system

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://kotaku.com/how-paper-mario-origami-kings-puzzle-battles-work-1844314696

Origami King has by and large gotten rid of the more annoying parts of the last couple games, leaving us with pure unadulterated papery goodness.

oh ya

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but also pretty much every major outlet has their preview out today

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This doesn't totally reassure me about the game. It seems they're insisting on trying to make the Sticker Star formula work.

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Luigi what a cheapskate

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Is there an xp system

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the article in fact answers that question!

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ninkendo posted...

the article in fact answers that question!

You could have just said no, lol

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ninkendo posted...

the article in fact answers that question!

We don't want to read the freaking article. We want the answer here.

(The answer, if anyone else was wondering, is no.)

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xp was an annoying part of the last couple of games

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And this is doubly important because the only things battles give you are coins

Ugh

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This definitely doesn't sound like what I want, so I'll be skipping it.

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swirIdude posted...

This definitely doesn't sound like what I want, so I'll be skipping it.

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ninkendo posted...

the article in fact answers that question!

typing "n o " would've been easier than typing that out

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ninkendo is a secret Kotaku clicks agent

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Punnyz posted...

typing "n o " would've been easier than typing that out

clicking the article would have been faster than typing your original message

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Yeah this definitely isnt the game for me. Oh well

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ninkendo posted...

clicking the article would have been faster than typing your original message

I sincerely doubt my question would've been answered in the first line!

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No XP is a bummer but I'm pretty sure the game is open world from the start so a leveling system wouldn't work with that design.

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If they're determined not to have the Paper series 'compete' with M&L, why even have pseudo-RPG battles? It's not like the battle system in the first two games was that amazing. Go back to the Super formula and focus on puzzles and character abilities. Heck, make it a Metroidvania!
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BlackMageJawa posted...

If they're determined not to have the Paper series 'compete' with M&L, why even have pseudo-RPG battles? It's not like the battle system in the first two games was that amazing. Go back to the Super formula and focus on puzzles and character abilities. Heck, make it a Metroidvania!

I thought M&L died

This was supposed to be a fresh start

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meh

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Punnyz posted...

I thought M&L died

This was supposed to be a fresh start

Well, the studio that made the games folded, so this is probably true. I guess it's fitting that Paper Mario killed that, too.

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I accept that this game isn't actually an RPG, but the rest of the game still looks fun so I'm still interested. It's just an action-adventure game with turn-based battles thrown in for whatever reason. There was a 10-minute gameplay video yesterday that showed there's even occasional action combat on the overworld.

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And the boss battles still sound like they're fun.

https://twitter.com/JeffGrubb/status/1281219057522405377
https://twitter.com/JeffGrubb/status/1281219314339569664

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https://twitter.com/JeffGrubb/status/1281213399607570436

Yep this is the entire problem with the new Paper Mario games. Just give us a reason to use your cool battle system you fools! The boss battles even use a completely different system!

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Now heres the catch: Youre meant to be solving these puzzles perfectly each time. Its not enough to simply get, say, three enemies into a line or a square. If you do this, you can still attack them, but your attack power will be significantly weakened and its unlikely youll defeat them in that turn, leaving you open for counterattacks.

Basically, if youre not solving the puzzles, youre going to spend a longer time chipping away at enemies, lose a bunch of health, and come away from the slog with a smaller reward. So I hope you enjoy solving concentric-ring puzzles! Oh, and did I mention theres a timer?.

sigh

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I think another problem I have is how much they focus on the gimmicks of the games now.

With the original Paper Mario and TTYD, it never really felt like the paper gimmicks were all that relevant to the story or gameplay, but more just like supplements.

With the more recent Paper Mario games it's really just EVERYTHING is literally about the gimmick and this game seems no different. 90% of the humor being paper/oragami jokes. Gameplay and enemies all being about paper and whatnot. Even the bosses from what I've seen in this game are all completely paper related. The pencils boss, the tape, the rubber bands.

These worlds feel way less about Mario and way more about Toads and Paper and man that just doesn't interest me in the slightest.

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Another thing that bothers me is that they even added "Partners" back to try and rope people back in.

Everything about the partners in this game seems very half-assed and unimportant.

You have a partner for like 1 hour in each chapter, they do 1 single auto attack in battle, and then after that chapter I assume they are just gone for the rest of the game. At least from what I've seen, it seems to indicate that.

That is not what we liked about partners. We liked befriending interesting and cool characters that grew over the course of the game, learning new abilities and actually aiding Mario in his adventure.

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Zigzagoon posted...

Even the bosses from what I've seen in this game are all completely paper related. The pencils boss, the tape, the rubber bands.

Those are silly, yeah, but they're not all the bosses. We've seen some origami bosses too, like a polar bear, dragon, and Moltres.

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mnkboy907 posted...

Those are silly, yeah, but they're not all the bosses. We've seen some origami bosses too, like a polar bear, dragon, and Moltres.

All not Mario related again in the slightest.

I mean, I'm not saying the fights won't be cool or fun but these last few games really don't feel like a Mario World... but more a Paper Toad world, lol

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skullbone posted...

https://twitter.com/JeffGrubb/status/1281213399607570436

Yep this is the entire problem with the new Paper Mario games. Just give us a reason to use your cool battle system you fools! The boss battles even use a completely different system!

This is it right here. Intelligent Systems is in this really weird spot where they apparently really don't want to make RPGs but they keep using the framework of an RPG anyway.

So what you end up with is a situation where battles have, at best, intrinsic personal satisfaction but absolutely no extrinsic reward with any meaning. So at some point even whatever personal enjoyment you're able to derive from the battles is going to butt up against the fact that doing them isn't do you any favors and is potentially even lowering your chance of beating an upcoming boss (by lowering your HP, consuming resources, etc)

It sucks cause these puzzle battles look kind of interesting, but if you cram them into the framework of a random RPG battle but then don't bring any of the incentives that come along with those normally, all you end up with is a poorly thought-out waste of time.

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Xiahou Shake posted...

It sucks cause these puzzle battles look kind of interesting, but if you cram them into the framework of a random RPG battle but then don't bring any of the incentives that come along with those normally, all you end up with is a poorly thought-out waste of time.

It's actually even WORSE because the bosses don't use any of the resources you could earn from normal battles from what I can tell.

This looks like a charming little puzzle game but RPG it is not.

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Zigzagoon posted...

All not Mario related again in the slightest.

I mean, to be fair, the Paper Mario games have almost never had Mario related bosses. You have King Goomba and then the Koopa Bros and that's about it until you get to Bowser in the first game, unless you count the Bloopers in the sewer, and then I can't think of any at all in TTYD. The bosses have almost always been random creations.

EDIT: I forgot about the Piranha Plant in 64, but the point remains. Oh, and the Shy Guys. Okay, so 64 did have a few, it was mainly TTYD that didn't.

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I could've potentially come around on the battle system, but the fact that your turns are up against a timer does not sit well with me at all.

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Yeah I was cautiously optimistic about this game but I just cancelled my pre-order. If it ends up being amazing maybe I'll get it later but I can't see it being a must-play game.

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HashtagSEP posted...

I mean, to be fair, the Paper Mario games have almost never had Mario related bosses. You have King Goomba and then the Koopa Bros and that's about it until you get to Bowser in the first game, unless you count the Bloopers in the sewer, and then I can't think of any at all in TTYD. The bosses have almost always been random creations.

EDIT: I forgot about the Piranha Plant in 64, but the point remains.

That's true, but most of the bosses and enemies that weren't based off previous Mario games were things that actually felt like they could fit in that world. They all made sense and built upon what we already had. Bosses were unique.

This we have...

Tape, Pencils, Rubber Bands... and then origami of normal animals/creatures. It just feels like these days there's WAY too much emphasis on the gimmick and in turn just makes everything feel contrived.

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Eh, I don't think the previous bosses were any more unique than the origami animals/creatures. They just had names that gave that illusion. You're still ultimately fighting... A cloud, dragons, and other generic things.

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Hard pass for me.


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Now, that said, the fact they're still sticking with "battles are ultimately meaningless" makes me extremely disappointed.

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ZaziGuado posted...

I could've potentially come around on the battle system, but the fact that your turns are up against a timer does not sit well with me at all.

You can use the coins you get (which you seemingly will always have an abundance of) to increase the timer.

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Also, I just went to check. A LOT of Paper Mario bosses are based of enemies from other games so I'm ???? about what you are talking about.

Jr. Troopa
Goomba King
Kammy Koopa
Anti Guy
General Guy
Tutankoopa
Lava Piranah
Kent. C Koopa
The Master
The Koopa Bros

TTYD gets a bit more adventureous but also borrows from enemies created in the first Paper Mario, like Doopliss (Who is fantastic)


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Tubba Blubba was based off of the spike enemies from Mario 3 as well.
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It kind of sounds like it will be fun but I don't understand why they can't just make Paper Mario 3.

Nintendo has a serious problem actually giving fans what they want. It took them almost 30 years to realize they wanted another open world Zelda, for example, and I won't be surprised if they forget it again next game.

Yeah, I went back and edited my post that 64 had a decent number of them. Granted, in that list, 4 of them are literally just based on Koopa Troopas and The Master is just a Toad, and later games have constantly been criticized for only reusing Koopas/Goombas/Toads.

The point is that the origami bosses are no less unique than cloud boss, ice boss, and... Most of TTYD's. Like, it feels weird to go "Ew, a dragon? That has nothing to do with Mario!" when TTYD is full of dragons.

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HashtagSEP posted...

Yeah, I went back and edited my post that 64 had a decent number of them. Granted, in that list, 4 of them are literally just based on Koopa Troopas and The Master is just a Toad, and later games have constantly been criticized for only reusing Koopas/Goombas/Toads.

The point is that the origami bosses are no less original than cloud boss, ice boss, and... Most of TTYD's. Like, it feels weird to go "Ew, a dragon? That has nothing to do with Mario!" when TTYD is full of dragons.

I don't think people are asking the characters to be 100% original, rather for them to have some kind of personality or gimmick that makes them feel fresh.

Like the majority of the original 15 partners did.

Even the bosses have their own level of uniqueness.

A cloud boss who creates a cloud making machine to cover a field of talking flowers and make the sun run away to a tower?

A giant clubba who remove his own heart to become invincible and also get rid of his own soft personality?

They are based on old designs but there's a lot of creativity there.

Imma just wait for actual reviews.

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Blubba was fantastic yeah

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Yeah it's not like I'm own a Switch until long after the game is out so I'll buy it if the game is well received.

I genuinely don't like saying "I told you so" in this instance