Current Events > Just finished TLoU2. Why did everyone hate on it? *major spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

After the leaks came out, I'm guessing they hated that Joel died, but that was pretty obvious since they revealed it was an Ellie game.

And the ending wasn't even bad, either. If anything, it was anticlimactic but that's pretty much the same as the first one's ending.

My only real complaint is that the game dragged its feet at certain points. If they had trimmed like around 15% off the story mode, it wouldn't felt better paced. But that's about it.

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Are you even trying?
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Trying what?

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I loved it.

People didn't like it so much because, as best I can tell, they either didn't like that Joel died, didn't like Abby equally because of what she did and because women with her body type aren't often portrayed in media. Also there's a transgender character, and a couple of gay characters. Out of context leaks that sound average on paper but are executed really well. Something vague about integrity in game journalism. People failed to at least sympathise with Abby for some reason.

It sounds like I'm being a devil's advocate here or something. I'm not trying to be sneaky, I genuinely love it and have defended it on this board before. But those are the reasons why.

There are definitely some structural issues with the story, too many plot contrivances, too many convenient coincidences and last minute saves. But overall I love it, on my second play now to max out skills and weapons. It seems like a lot of people wanted a black-and-white dichotomy of Ellie =good Abby = bad and dislike that both characters are morally grey all around. Another common complaint I'm starting to see is that "the game says all men are bad because they die or are hobbled," which is a weird thing to focus on when all the women suffer similarly miserable fates except maybe Dina, but even she has her family home shattered by Ellie's inability to let it go. No one is a winner in this story.

They're either bitching that they didn't get the revenge they expected at the end of the story or they're bitching about lesbians and Abby's face/muscles. They're both knuckle-dragger complaints.

It is funny to see Joel all of a sudden being elevated to Luke Skywalker, King Aragorn, Solid Snake Batman status just because this new story went in a direction they didn't want. Also having a giggle at all the whining about violence all of a sudden, as if they aren't jerking off to GTA, COD and Dark Souls any other minute of the day.

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Stalolin posted...

I loved it.

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BruceWayneJr posted...

They're either bitching that they didn't get the revenge they expected at the end of the story

I can see that sounding really bad on paper -- "the game's plot is ellie getting revenge, but then she doesn't" -- but it's basically the same thing as the first game. "Joel needs to deliver ellie to make the cure, but then he doesn't".

The point of these games is more the journey than the destination. Seeing the characters develop. And so yeah, this journey isn't as good as the first game's, imo, but it's still good. And they actually made me care enough about abby by the end to make me not want to see her die, so I'd say they did a decent job.

Any lesbian/trans complaints are just outright stupid tho.

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Everything felt like it was just being tryhard progressive as fuck just for the sake of being progressive

Gay lead? Check

Not one but TWO STRONG FEMALES LEADS? Check

Almost every single male character killed off by a STRONG FEMALE? Check

Some random trans character and their story awkwardly thrown in at the end and forced down my throat? Check

Dingydang166 posted...

Everything felt like it was just being tryhard progressive as fuck just for the sake of being progressive

Gay lead? Check

Not one but TWO STRONG FEMALES LEADS? Check

Almost every single male character killed off by a STRONG FEMALE? Check

Some random trans character and their story awkwardly thrown in at the end and forced down my throat? Check

Wait, wait, WAIT...you're telling me that this game is not all about straight white men? What the fuck!? I'd better write a letter to my congressman!

Dingydang166 posted...

Some random trans character and their story awkwardly thrown in at the end and forced down my throat? Check

Honestly, I think a plot point that basically amounts to being "girl wanted to be a boy so she shaved her head" is what you consider being shoved down your throat, that's a you problem.

I think Lev is one of the best characters in the game.

There's def progressive stuff, but it wasn't super heavy handed imo, and outside of Dina who was boring, the LGBTQ characters were interesting or likeable characters first and foremost, and labels second.

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even by video game standards the controversy is silly

great game overall and the abby + lev sections were the highlight for me

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It was a big middle finger to the ending of the first game. It took a wonderfully ambiguous ending and said, "Haha, nope, Joel made an unambiguously wrong decision and fuck you if you agreed with him."

A sequel just should not have been made. The story of Joel and Ellie ended perfectly in TLoU. ND even said as much, but they just couldn't resist the siren call of profits.

I also just really, really hated Abby. You introduce a character in that particular manner and I am just not going to sympathize with them no matter how you try to manipulate me otherwise.
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UnholyMudcrab posted...

It was a big middle finger to the ending of the first game. It took a wonderfully ambiguous ending and said, "Haha, nope, Joel made an unambiguously wrong decision and fuck you if you agreed with him."

A sequel just should not have been made. The story of Joel and Ellie ended perfectly in TLoU. ND even said as much, but they just couldn't resist the siren call of profits.

I think Ellie's opinion of Joel's decision was predictable and expected.

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UnholyMudcrab posted...

said, "Haha, nope, Joel made an unambiguously wrong decision and fuck you if you agreed with him."

That's not what it said. It was wrong to Abby and her group specifically, but there's still no proof the Fireflies could've been able to make a cure, or if giving the cure to a douchebag group like the Fireflies would've even been good in the first place.

Joel did fucked up things his whole life after the outbreak. Obviously not everybody was gonna like him for it. And in this particular case, he also murdered Abby's dad. In her mind, Joel killed her dad and fucked over the whole world. But that's not the only way to look at it obviously.

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UnholyMudcrab posted...

It was a big middle finger to the ending of the first game. It took a wonderfully ambiguous ending and said, "Haha, nope, Joel made an unambiguously wrong decision and fuck you if you agreed with him."

Notice that Marlene tried to talk Abby's father out of doing the operation and he avoided answering the question on if he'd do it on his own daughter.

They're not making Joel out to be a villain. He had his reasons to do what he did, it's up to you if you agree with him or not. They're not making Abby's father inherently good either. He may have good intentions, and who knows if the vaccine idea would've even worked, but he likely wouldn't have done it if it was his own flesh and blood. Really, the game is showing that both Abby and Ellie went too far into revenge and it costed both of them practically everything. Hell, they did their best to show that not everybody is in a black-and-white morality.
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https://youtu.be/_bBJnNseJ34

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BruceWayneJr posted...

They're either bitching that they didn't get the revenge they expected at the end of the story or they're bitching about lesbians and Abby's face/muscles. They're both knuckle-dragger complaints.

Honestly Im just exhausted from explaining over and over why the latter is not the issue and the former is but one of many issues with the narrative that I really dont think its worth it anymore. Ill just drop my score.

6.5/10


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DezDroppedFreak posted...

Honestly Im just exhausted from explaining over and over why the latter is not the issue and the former is but one of many issues with the narrative that I really dont think its worth it anymore. Ill just drop my score.

6.5/10

I had major issues with the narrative structure too but given the presentation, technical impressiveness, ambition of the story despite not quite hitting its mark, improved gameplay, etc., I cant truthfully give it anything lower than an 8/10.

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Shablagoo posted...

I had major issues with the narrative structure too but given the presentation, technical impressiveness, ambition of the story despite not quite hitting its mark, improved gameplay, etc., I cant truthfully give it anything lower than an 8/10.

While the core gameplay is improved I also thought some sections (aka Ellie Seattle) went on for far too long and I found myself bored and just wishing it was over. The game itself is about 5-6 hours too long.

and the story is not ambitious. It has been done (much better) countless times before.

I stand by my 6.5

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The only legitimate piece of criticism that I've seen is just the pacing. The game is still fantastic, but internet is gonna jump on a hate wagon whenever it can. Everything can be simplified down to this:

1. Wah wah Joel died.
2. Boo I didn't get the story I wanted so that makes it bad.
3. Ew. Abby's ugly and sucks.
4. Abby's a bad character because she wanted revenge for Joel murdering her dad.
5. I don't get to play as Ellie anymore?
6. I didn't get to kill Abby as Ellie and that's not what I wanted.
7. That ending sucked and I still think the whole theme of the game is "revenge is bad" even though the game spells it out for me by the end.
8. SJW bullshit.
9. I read the leaks and judged the game entirely based on that without even playing it.
10. It's popular to hate this successful thing.

That pretty much can sum up every single problem people have with the Last of Us Part II. They don't all apply to everyone, but you can bet people bashing the game will be guilty of at least some of them.

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I loved it. Thought it was fantastic. Of course it had some issues. But over all was very enjoyable.

I honestly didnt like Abby much at all until the final moments of the game. Seeing that she had moved past the events of the game, and was willing to accept Ellie's help and even offer help in return... That changed my opinion of her.

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I liked the game, but I wish it had multiple endings.

Like right before the final battle you pick to play as either Ellie or Abs. Then after you could have another choice: Kill or Spare.

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Dingydang166 posted...

Some random trans character and their story awkwardly thrown in at the end and forced down my throat? Check

I didn't know why everyone thought he was trans until I researched and saw a scene of him being called Lilly online, which I missed when I played it. It's hardly shoved down your throat, is what I'm saying. It's not like some long, dramatic cutscene on its own with a big reveal at the end. It's said in passing and immediately pushed aside as to not put the focus on it.

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GameGodOfAll posted...

Wah wah Joel died.
Boo I didn't get the story I wanted so that makes it bad.
Ew. Abby's ugly and sucks.
Abby's a bad character because she wanted revenge for Joel murdering her dad.
I don't get to play as Ellie anymore?
I didn't get to kill Abby as Ellie and that's not what I wanted.
That ending sucked and I still think the whole theme of the game is "revenge is bad" even though the game spells it out for me by the end.
SJW bullshit.
I read the leaks and judged the game entirely based on that without even playing it.
It's popular to hate this successful thing.

1. Its not that Joel died, but rather the way they chose to kill him off. In universe Joel had this coming, but youd have to throw away a lot of what we know about both Tommy and Joel to think theyd get in that situation.
2. No.
3. again, no.
4. Third no.
5. Fourth no. Honestly a game that centered around just Abby would have been more focused than this ended up being.
6. Fifth no. The entire ending sequence is drivel though and feels like a mini sequel no one asked for. Game shouldve just ended with Abby and Lev leaving the room after the confrontation with Ellie and Dina
7. What is the theme then? Abby and Ellie are both broken characters who lost everything in their quest for revenge and actively harmed everyone else around them on their quest. Was it revenge as a result of grief? Yeah, but the core of the plot is still centered around revenge being destructive. Just because they were grief stricken does not change that.
8. What are we at, six nos?
9. I did read the leaks and frankly they made me excited for the game. If you just read TLoU 1s main events out of context they sound horrible as well, but they manage to put it all together in a way that contextually works, something this game does not do.
10. seventh no.

Anyway, some of my issues not from that list.

• Flashback transitions are jarring as fuck and disrupt the pacing.
• There are multiple inaccuracies or inconsistencies from scene to scene that are hand waved away in the name of moving the plot forward or to invoke some sort of response from the character and player (Tommy somehow not being dead after the run-in with Abby and Lev despite taking a bullet straight to the head, Nora somehow being able to tell Ellie where Abby is despite being bludgeoned four times with a lead pipe while she dies from spore exposure, Abby being surprised as fuck the seraphite island is being attacked despite literally being told she would have helped lead that operation, etc).
• The lengths they go to in an effort to give Abby and Ellie parity is hilarious and its how we ended up with a pregnant medic taking the front lines despite being ready to pop at any time.
• Any attempt to humanize Abby is wasted considering she kills indiscriminately.
• None of the side characters outside of Lev have any real development, and when they die its like they never existed or theyre just as forgetful as npc fodder.
• Speaking of Lev, they were a bit too heavy handed with the lack of acceptance angle, which just felt super tropey. Same with Ellie and Dinas relationship being heavily reliant on tropes and never feeling like a real relationship between two characters. It felt like Dina was really only ever there to have parity with Mel as both were pregnant and that was it. And to bash you over the head with revenge is bad at the end.
• And, as a more generalized complaint, the gameplay segments focused on the wrong parts. They could have cut some of the sequences of going from building to building in half to actually have the player leave. You cant just have Ellie go to the hospital, drill in your head Oh man leaving here wont be easy repeatedly, then just cut to being back at the theatre after she somehow gets her information. This happens multiple times with both Abby and Ellie. They should have restructured their set pieces to also show these events that would supposedly be tough to endure

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DezDroppedFreak posted...

Game shouldve just ended with Abby and Lev leaving the room after the confrontation with Ellie and Dina

That would've been such a shit ending.

DezDroppedFreak posted...

What are we at, six nos?

You can't just say no to all these things when they're the most common complaints online. They're just not your complaints.

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slmcknett posted...

You can't just say no to all these things when they're the most common complaints online. They're just not your complaints

Right, and I was talking about mine. I took the time to type some of my complaints and started with his check list. Apologies if it came off that way. I fully recognize people are solely doing that, and those people are stupid or didnt play it.

slmcknett posted...

That would've been such a shit ending.

I mean it doesnt have to be literally that, but something along those lines where Abby and Ellie abandon their pursuit of one another instead of the forced Santa Barbara section is more what I was getting at.

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I honestly liked the Santa Barbara section more than most of Seattle if only because it was a nice change of scenery. I probably would've been way more insulted if the whole game was just in Seattle and then the final fight was against Ellie.

I thought it felt pretty clear that after the Abby section, there was gonna be a final section where you go back to playing as Ellie. So I was relieved when Tommy showed up to keep the plot going.

(It's definitely crazy how Tommy survived with only a slightly bruised eye, but I dunno if it's that's really in inaccuracy or inconsistency, or just a simple stretch of belief.)

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it looks like Tommy lost his eye, and people have survived getting shot in the head, so his surviving isn't unheard of.

plus it looks like it could have been around the span of 9 months (or longer) since the events in Seattle, so I could see Tommy having some time to recover.

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boxington posted...

it looks like Tommy lost his eye, and people have survived getting shot in the head, so his surviving isn't unheard of.

plus it looks like it could have been around the span of 9 months (or longer) since the events in Seattle, so I could see Tommy having some time to recover.

Longer than that, Dina wasn't even showing and JJ was at least 9-10 months after the events in Seattle. So it was almost 2 years later.

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tbh, I don't know anything about babies

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slmcknett posted...

I thought it felt pretty clear that after the Abby section, there was gonna be a final section where you go back to playing as Ellie.

It was clear, but I still think the Santa Barbara section was contrived and mostly pointless, though I was also begging for the game to be over because from a gameplay standpoint it had outworn its welcome shortly before the island section for me.

Taharqa_ posted...

Longer than that, Dina wasn't even showing and JJ was at least 9-10 months after the events in Seattle. So it was almost 2 years later.

Yeah. It was 18 months later. Also another thing that drove me crazy (this is a nitpick) was the entire time JJ is just doing standard baby spitting noises but theres one picture you can examine where hell say a full-on sentence to it. Just doesnt seem like something he should be able to do by that point.

boxington posted...

it looks like Tommy lost his eye, and people have survived getting shot in the head, so his surviving isn't unheard of.

Yeah, thats still a bit of a stretch considering he also got shot with an arrow and was bludgeoned. Characters died from far less in this game.

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maybe, but we also see his pronounced limp, and he lets it be known that he can't carry out the revenge against Abby, and that's why he puts it all on Ellie


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DezDroppedFreak posted...

but theres one picture you can examine where hell say a full-on sentence to it. Just doesnt seem like something he should be able to do by that point.

Yeah that was weird. Esp since it was clearly an adult doing a baby voice, which sounded so out of place compared to all the good acting throughout every other part of the game.

I want to believe that was just Ellie doing a baby voice, talking for JJ, but I dunno.

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@DezDroppedFreak

Its not that Joel died, but rather the way they chose to kill him off. In universe Joel had this coming, but youd have to throw away a lot of what we know about both Tommy and Joel to think theyd get in that situation.

I don't see how. They're clearly different people than what they've done in the past. Tommy alone seemed totally changed when you met him in the first game. It stands to reason Joel settled down as well. Them trying to help someone out near their town seems in line to me.

DezDroppedFreak posted...

What is the theme then? Abby and Ellie are both broken characters who lost everything in their quest for revenge and actively harmed everyone else around them on their quest. Was it revenge as a result of grief? Yeah, but the core of the plot is still centered around revenge being destructive. Just because they were grief stricken does not change that.

It's about closure, forgiveness and letting go. Yes revenge is bad, but after the end of Seattle, Ellie and Abby pretty much were done with each other. Joel had it coming and Abby didn't kill Ellie or Dina despite everyone they killed. Ellie was at the farm, had a baby, but couldn't let go because she never got closure. Even after saving Abby she couldn't deal with it. This is spelled out with the flash of Joel when Ellie lets go of Abby and then we see that flash was from their final conversation where it was all about Ellie trying to forgive Joel. Abby robbed her of that closure and there ya go.

Now then..

• Flashback transitions are jarring as fuck and disrupt the pacing.

Pacing's an issue for sure. I never found any of the flashbacks to be jarring as I believe they almost all happened at the end of a chapter and were included with a title card letting you know when it took place. The only jarring one was the first Abby flashback, which was intentionally jarring.

• There are multiple inaccuracies or inconsistencies from scene to scene that are hand waved away in the name of moving the plot forward or to invoke some sort of response from the character and player (Tommy somehow not being dead after the run-in with Abby and Lev despite taking a bullet straight to the head, Nora somehow being able to tell Ellie where Abby is despite being bludgeoned four times with a lead pipe while she dies from spore exposure, Abby being surprised as fuck the seraphite island is being attacked despite literally being told she would have helped lead that operation, etc).

With Tommy, even when I first saw it, I could clearly tell that wasn't a kill shot. Partially because his brains didn't explode like everyone else's. I knew it grazed him and figured he'd be back to make the save. Was wrong on that. We don't see where Ellie hits Nora with the pipe. Could have been in the arms with her attempting to block it. We don't know, but just assuming those were straight to the head isn't an inconsistency with the story itself. As for spores, we don't really know how long it takes, or how people manage with them. Never seen it happen before in either games. Seemed like when she was right in the spores, it caused coughing uncontrollably. Away from them, she was already infected and going to turn, but wasn't immediately hacking up a lung. And I don't even remember Abby being "surprised as fuck" by the attack. I played the game twice and she says something along the lines of "Issac what are you doing..." more like she's in disbelief of the direct assault.

So no to every one of those which all seemed like assumptions being made rather than parts of the story that were inconsistent.

• The lengths they go to in an effort to give Abby and Ellie parity is hilarious and its how we ended up with a pregnant medic taking the front lines despite being ready to pop at any time.

Doesn't seem like a flaw drawing some parallels between Abby and Ellie. That seems like standard writing with this sort of dualing protagonist set up. If you think it goes too far, then sure that's your opinion. I agree about Mel being in the field while being so bloated.

• Any attempt to humanize Abby is wasted considering she kills indiscriminately.

So any attempts to humanize Joel were wasted considering he kills indiscriminately right? This one's just silly.

• None of the side characters outside of Lev have any real development, and when they die its like they never existed or theyre just as forgetful as npc fodder.

I'd disagree with Owen, but fine. Jesse doesn't have real development (these are side supporting characters after all) and while his death seemed like the most shock value one, he didn't come across as an NPC. Same with Yara. So really, the core characters get it, the more important supporting characters are defined and the not so important ones feel like fodder. This doesn't seem like a big flaw or unique at all.

• Speaking of Lev, they were a bit too heavy handed with the lack of acceptance angle, which just felt super tropey. Same with Ellie and Dinas relationship being heavily reliant on tropes and never feeling like a real relationship between two characters. It felt like Dina was really only ever there to have parity with Mel as both were pregnant and that was it. And to bash you over the head with revenge is bad at the end.

I'll agree with Lev being heavy handed at points. Dina felt fleshed out and natural enough. Were some lesbian tropes, but I didn't think they went over the top with that at all beyond being called a slur by the grumpy old bar owner. The pregnancy was there to add stakes and it was effective imo. Real reason to have Ellie quit.

And, as a more generalized complaint, the gameplay segments focused on the wrong parts. They could have cut some of the sequences of going from building to building in half to actually have the player leave. You cant just have Ellie go to the hospital, drill in your head Oh man leaving here wont be easy repeatedly, then just cut to being back at the theatre after she somehow gets her information. This happens multiple times with both Abby and Ellie. They should have restructured their set pieces to also show these events that would supposedly be tough to endure

Valid. I don't need to see every return trip as you can easily assume they got out easier than it was getting in and adding extra bits to parts right after a big cutscene would drag the pace down worse, but you could reconstruct it better.

So agree to disagree on a few things, but I still feel like the only actual problem with the plot or the game is the pacing. And to clarity my list earlier was meant to encompass the internet complaints as a whole. Not to apply to any one specific person.


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i liked the game a lot. but man where they trying to make me hate it with some of those flash backs, especially the owen ones.

i hate owen

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idk, I thought that Owen ended up being one of the few (morally) decent characters in the game

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boxington posted...

idk, I thought that Owen ended up being one of the few (morally) decent characters in the game

he was one of the more decent dudes, but he just wasn't exciting. that intro with him and abby on the ferris wheel and the aquarium was like brrrruhhhhhhhh lets get this movin

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GameGodOfAll posted...

I don't see how. They're clearly different people than what they've done in the past. Tommy alone seemed totally changed when you met him in the first game. It stands to reason Joel settled down as well. Them trying to help someone out near their town seems in line to me.

There's also this. This isn't the same rugged, distant Joel that we met at the beginning of the first game. He's mellowed out and become more trusting over the years thanks to Ellie and living with others in Jackson. If anything, him saving Ellie lent itself to a second piece of irony in that keeping her alive is what lead to Joel mellowing out enough that he trusted Abby's group so carelessly, and is what got himself killed.

GameGodOfAll posted...

As for spores, we don't really know how long it takes, or how people manage with them.

Based off the notes you pick up, sounds like it can take up to a few hours before you start seeing any symptoms at all. Maybe a day or so at the most until you completely transform.

boxington posted...

idk, I thought that Owen ended up being one of the few (morally) decent characters in the game

I hated Owen at first, esp in the flashbacks when he was just being a jackass on a ferris wheel, but I started to feel more sympathetic towards him after he got more screentime, esp the scene with him and Abby on the boat (up until the sex scene, anyway).

It just sucks because it all happens after we see Ellie kills him, so it's just kinda like "eh." But I did end up liking him more than I thought.

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I really liked the game, but a lot of people just aren't going to accept the story because they already feel invested in Joel and Ellie, and anyone that hurts them is an evil person with evil friends who should all die. I've been watching my sister play and she was still cheering for Abby to die when the slavers abducted her and Lev in Santa Barabara. She even wanted Lev and Yara to die just for attacking Tommy at various points.

I have to agree that I kind of felt satisfied when a couple of Abby's people died though.

I don't know how you can play the game in its entirety and conclude you play the first half of the game as a rightfully angry hero and the second half as a deplorable piece of shit murderer. I think Ellie and Abby's motivations and emotions were equally valid when you view events within each character's limited scope. I totally could have seen Ellie torturing someone just like Abby did to Joel. Neither is wrong or a bad person, and you can't personify all of the Firefly and WLF sins into Abby.

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Honestly, even though I didn't care for Abby until a good ways late into the game, I never once thought that her actions were unjustified, or that she was a piece of shit or anything. I mean, Joel murdered her dad and basically fucked over the world -- she was totally in the right to do what she did, imo. I just personally didn't find her interesting enough beyond that. That, on top of basic fatigure of being in Seattle for the entire game, made me super not motivated to start up her side of the story. It felt like a slog at first.

There's def a double standard when it comes to people hating Abby and loving Ellie, though. But I think that's the point.

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I liked the game overall but I dont think they did a good job making you sympathize with Abby. Shes pretty irredeemable even compared to Ellie despite helping the kids

i did like the ending, considering the paths they took to get there. I only wanted Ellie to not kill Abby for Ellies sake though, not for Abbys, and I think that was a failure on the part of the game

pacing was ehhh and the game was too long, they def could have trimmed the flashback parts in particular. Also could have used more actual traversal puzzles

biggest disappointment for me was that Seattle day one for Ellie was the only open section of the game. I really liked that aspect of Uncharted Lost Legacy and would have liked more of that. Also didnt like the extent the game arbitrarily railroaded you forwardfor a game where supplies are very important (on hard at least), its very annoying to go through a door and not be able to go back because reasons

8.5/10

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TheGoldenEel posted...

I really liked that aspect of Uncharted Lost Legacy and would have liked more of that.

Uncharted 4 and lost legacy also only had one open area. That was mostly empty and only larger because a car was needed to traverse it. I'd much rather have a dense city block or two traveled on foot then miles of barren beautiful fields personally.

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^ I don't think that you were meant to sympathize with her, just empathize with her.

and that's to say, understand her motivations, get an idea of how it all affected her, and so on.

but if a person ended up sympathizing with her/liking her character, then that's cool, too.

edit: at post 42

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Barring stuff like bugs/glitches, it looked amazing and it was better than the first in terms of gameplay.

In terms of story, I personally hated it's use of subversion or whatever the hell Druckman was saying with "the cycle of revenge" with how the character who went through with her revenge only lost everything because she left the one person who would take revenge on her alive while the one who decided not to go through with her revenge also lost everything but while also getting nothing in return. It seemed more like it was more a lesson of tying up loose ends rather than any sort of holier than thou revenge bullshit.

If Ellie didn't end up losing her fingers I probably wouldn't have hated as much. Like she lost not only the people she loved but she's been rendered disabled now as well.

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Story was trash

Futility of revenge and the cycle it creates has been done to death much better in other media than in this game

Abby's character was completely irredeemable to me because of her lack of basic human emotions like remorse for all the shit she's done

I hated playing as her and found myself actively looking for ways to kill her

I did not care about a single character in the WLF, they all were horrible people who deserved what they got

The cordyceps virus might as well not even been a part of this game because it was catapulted into the background to bring a jumbled mess of a narrative front and center. The infected were only brief nuisances throughout the game

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Northlane posted...

Futility of revenge and the cycle it creates has been done to death much better in other media than in this game

That's not what it'about. The game is as much about revenge as the first one was about finding the cure. There's a difference between the plot and the story it's trying to tell.

Northlane posted...

Abby's character was completely irredeemable to me because of her lack of basic human emotions like remorse for all the shit she's done

She did one bad thing, which wasn't even bad considering what he did. She did several good things. She's easily the best character in the game in terms of ethics.


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Northlane posted...

Abby's character was completely irredeemable to me because of her lack of basic human emotions like remorse for all the shit she's done

Did you think she was risking death and injury to help Lev and Yara for ****s and giggles? Its clearly shown that she feels
remorse, it just isnt shown in a beat you over the head with it kind of way.

Abby was either just as bad as Ellie, or even better of a human, depending on how you view her. There's no world in which she's less irredeemable even if you don't care for her.

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Saving one stupid trans kid who gets his sister killed doesn't make up for years of slaughtering hundreds of seraphites, traveling 1000 miles to kill one guy who helped her survive a horde of zombies, and betraying her own faction

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