Poll of the Day > What happened to telltale games? Why have some been removed from steam and psn?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Game of Thrones
Tales from Borderlands
Jurassic Park

it looks like if I want these Ill have to buy them on disk

Music licenses expiring

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I own a physical copy of Tales fro Borderlands. PS4.

Lokarin posted...

Music licenses expiring

Copyright trolls strike again.

We should just abandon licensed artists and go full SoundCloud.

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music licensing isnt anywhere close to what copyright trolling is

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This is for the removal from GOG but same reasoning across all platforms.

https://www.vg247.com/2019/05/24/telltale-games-pilled-from-gog-but-theres-hope-for-tales-from-the-borderlands/

I can still re-download borderlands if I ever feel like it, so doesn't bother me
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helIy posted...

music licensing isnt anywhere close to what copyright trolling is

"I own this IP and if you use it in any way I don't approve of I'll sue you."

Sure, the practical reality of it is very different in that being able to control one's IP is vital for art in general to be a viable commercial enterprise, but the fundamental reasoning behind it is basically the same. That's why copyright trolling continues to exist: You can't outlaw it without undermining legitimate copyright claims in the process.

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adjl posted...

"I own this IP and if you use it in any way I don't approve of I'll sue you."

Sure, the practical reality of it is very different in that being able to control one's IP is vital for art in general to be a viable commercial enterprise, but the fundamental reasoning behind it is basically the same. That's why copyright trolling continues to exist: You can't outlaw it without undermining legitimate copyright claims in the process.

except this is literally not like copyright trolls

these games bought a license to use specific music. that license expires, and means they cant sell whatever its in because they would be illegally distributing music they dont have the license for.

often times the developer will just update the game and remove whatever music they lost the license for. gta and alan wake are prime examples of this

its not copyright claims.

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The studio closed down, with no publisher willing to keep the games up on stores. So unless you already downloaded them, you need them physical. Some some games like Poker Night are gone for good.

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Marcster1994 posted...

The studio closed down, with no publisher willing to keep the games up on stores. So unless you already downloaded them, you need them physical. Some some games like Poker Night are gone for good.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telltale_Games_(2018%E2%80%93present)

LCG Entertainment, Inc., doing business asTelltale Games, is an American video game publisher based in Malibu, California. The company was established after the original Telltale Games filed for assignment in October 2018 and were forced to shut down and sell off assets. LCG Entertainment had been able to acquire the rights to much of the original Telltale intellectual property (IP), including branding, games, and game licenses, and announced in August 2019 they would be bringing the old Telltale Games titles back.

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helly thinks game companies can come and legally take back your physical games... don't pay attention to his thoughts on copyright
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

helly thinks game companies can come and legally take back your physical games... don't pay attention to his thoughts on copyright

Oh shit I was actually there for that one.

helIy posted...

its not copyright claims.

It would be, however, if the holder of the expired license continued to distribute the content. Again, that's a gross oversimplification of the nuances of copyright law and the world of intellectual properties, and the two aren't practically comparable, but the underlying logic is the same.

Krazy_Kirby posted...

helly thinks game companies can come and legally take back your physical games... don't pay attention to his thoughts on copyright

Oh, they legally can. It's in the EULA. Practically, it's never going to happen, but it would be legal for them to do so (or at least to render the game inoperative). At least, they could try, but in practice EULA's often don't hold up in court because everybody knows they're written to obfuscate what the end user is actually agreeing to and the end user doesn't get a chance to read them until after they've made the purchase. But it is in fact in there.

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Krazy_Kirby posted...

helly thinks game companies can come and legally take back your physical games... don't pay attention to his thoughts on copyright

oh they absolutely can.

and now publishers are adding to the eula that if you violate anything in it and get banned/terminated, you must destroy the product, too.

here's a snippet from the standard ubisoft eula, https://legal.ubi.com/eula/en-US

The EULA is effective from the earlier of the date You purchase, download or use the Product, until terminated according to its terms. You and UBISOFT (or its licensors) may terminate this EULA, at any time, for any reason. Termination by UBISOFT will be effective upon (a) notice to You or (b) termination of Your UBISOFT Account (if any) or (c) at the time of UBISOFTs decision to discontinue offering and/or supporting the Product. This EULA will terminate automatically if You fail to comply with any of the terms and conditions of this EULA. Upon termination for any reason, You must immediately uninstall the Product and destroy all copies of the Product in Your possession.

you literally own nothing, not even the plastic the disc is made out of, the case is made out of, or the paper inside it. and they can revoke your license, at any time, for literally any reason they want to. and you legally agreed to it.

now, the odds of this actually being enforced is very slim, to the point where it might as well not even be there. the point, however, is that it is very much a thing they can legally do.

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helIy posted...

and you legally agreed to it.

This is the main point of debate around EULA's, and what really limits their practical applicability. Nobody reads them, and everybody - including the publishers issuing them and any judge who would be presiding over the case - knows that. The agreement is also generally not presented prior to the purchase being made (sure, they're accessible online, but until Gamestop employees refuse sales to anyone that doesn't sign a document stating that they've read it, that doesn't mean much), and there isn't a lot of precedent for holding people to contracts that they agree to before being presented with the contract. The user agrees to it, but whether or not they legally agree to it is another question entirely.

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Can you imagine the amount of effort they'd have to go through to make sure someone destroyed all copies?

Piracy exists, people having a dedicated offline system to hack exists. There's literally no way to enforce that.

My dad has owned a game that due to copyright issues with the name all copies were supposed to be recalled and destroyed. Obviously, since he purchased it for his collection, that didn't happen.

adjl posted...

This is the main point of debate around EULA's, and what really limits their practical applicability. Nobody reads them, and everybody - including the publishers issuing them and any judge who would be presiding over the case - knows that. The agreement is also generally not presented prior to the purchase being made (sure, they're accessible online, but until Gamestop employees refuse sales to anyone that doesn't sign a document stating that they've read it, that doesn't mean much), and there isn't a lot of precedent for holding people to contracts that they agree to before being presented with the contract. The user agrees to it, but whether or not they legally agree to it is another question entirely.

this is why a lot of games are now presenting the eula as the first thing that appears when you start the game.

some are even doing that annoying thing where you can't agree to it until you scroll through the whole thing.

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ChaosAzeroth posted...

Can you imagine the amount of effort they'd have to go through to make sure someone destroyed all copies?

they actually had to do this with too human.

the courts ordered all copies to be destroyed, but later changed it to all unsold copies simply because it was near impossible to enforce like that.

and that's why there's used copies everywhere, despite those needing to be destroyed as well since they're unsold, though the loophole is that they were, at one point, sold, which bypasses it.

also, since it can't be legally sold anymore, microsoft is actually just giving it away for free on xbox, and they even went through the work to make it backwards compatible on the xbox one, which also means it'll play on the next gen xbox.

it's real weird that they actually did that for that game.

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adjl posted...

"I own this IP and if you use it in any way I don't approve of I'll sue you."

Sure, the practical reality of it is very different in that being able to control one's IP is vital for art in general to be a viable commercial enterprise, but the fundamental reasoning behind it is basically the same. That's why copyright trolling continues to exist: You can't outlaw it without undermining legitimate copyright claims in the process.

lolwut? They entered into an AGREEMENT with the artists to use their music. There's zero parallel.

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Its telltale games

not keepontellinggames

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helIy posted...

the courts ordered all copies to be destroyed, but later changed it to all unsold copies simply because it was near impossible to enforce like that.

That's definitely the part I'm referring to.

Like the only way to make sure an individual destroyed every copy they own would be not only to search every inch of their house/vehicle/work but also friend's and family's places.

It'd basically be literally impossible to actually make sure.

Product recalls on unsold product, while still a lot of work I'd imagine, are at least doable.

And if somehow they did, even people who didn't pirate probably would at that point.

helIy posted...

this is why a lot of games are now presenting the eula as the first thing that appears when you start the game.

some are even doing that annoying thing where you can't agree to it until you scroll through the whole thing.

Even doing that, though, the consumer is only being presented with the agreement after the point of sale. The actual sale of the game is the significant point at which any contract should be agreed to, since after that the choice is between accepting it or being left with a $60 coaster and you can very easily argue that's not a fully consensual agreement. Full refunds on opened games are pretty uncommon, so I don't think treating those as a third option is overly realistic. If the user is never given the option to back out of the agreement without losing anything other than the license they're agreeing to, they haven't been properly given a chance to agree to it.

Zeus posted...

lolwut? They entered into an AGREEMENT with the artists to use their music. There's zero parallel.

And once that agreement expires, the publisher no longer has permission to use the music, making it the same as any other use of an IP without permission. The only significant distinction between that and copyright trolling is that the artist has legitimately created something they intend to capitalize on instead of just squatting on a patent they have no intention of ever actually using outside of lawsuits. The fundamental logic is the same, the difference arises in the determination of what it means to have a legitimate claim to an IP (which is subjective, though most examples are obvious enough that that interpretation is going to be universal enough that its subjectivity doesn't matter).

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Ended up ordering these physically.