Current Events > Confederate flag is to Black people as Swastika is to Jewish people?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Never really thought of it that way but I can see where they're at least coming from with the idea.

not quite there but definitely in that direction, like close.

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Of course not, but you already L EA that, didn't you?

Lord_Wombat posted...

Of course not, but you already L EA that, didn't you?

L EA?

...the Nazi put Jews in concentration camps for 350 years before Northern Europe told them to stop, and then the Nazi gathered under the newly created Swastika symbol and fought back?
And the Northern European President would later declared that the only Jews they would set free were the ones that were still in Nazi controlled states, while the ones in already liberated states were still allowed to keep going as if nothing had changed at all?

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yes, if you think of them both as symbols of institutions that wanted to oppress/kill/take away rights from minority groups.

lol, two closet racists have already voted

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It's not a perfect analogy, but it works fine.
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No

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its fairly accurate. obviously when comparing one and the other one is definitely more severe, but that doesnt mean they arent comparable

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iPhone_7 posted...

not quite there but definitely in that direction, like close.

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Anyone who says no is clueless

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DeadBankerDream posted...

It's not a perfect analogy, but it works fine.

This. Some Black people rep that flag. The only time Ive ever seen that was when I lived in Mississippi where I grew up but I did see it

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I mean it's not the comparison I'd go for but yeah

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Foppe posted...

...the Nazi put Jews in concentration camps for 350 years before Northern Europe told them to stop, and then the Nazi gathered under the newly created Swastika symbol and fought back?
And the Northern European President would later declared that the only Jews they would set free were the ones that were still in Nazi controlled states, while the ones in already liberated states were still allowed to keep going as if nothing had changed at all?

The thing about analogies is that the two things being compared don't have to match 1:1 in every single imaginable aspect. The comparison here is that both are symbols of state oppression of an ethnic group on the basis that they be worth less. Not that the American history of slavery is an exact carbon-copy of the Holocaust, or vice versa.

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**** the confederates

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Foppe posted...

...the Nazi put Jews in concentration camps for 350 years before Northern Europe told them to stop, and then the Nazi gathered under the newly created Swastika symbol and fought back?
And the Northern European President would later declared that the only Jews they would set free were the ones that were still in Nazi controlled states, while the ones in already liberated states were still allowed to keep going as if nothing had changed at all?

*looks at tag*

lol

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It is, people always want to act like the South is so different then the Nazi but they are not. And that is because most of these people who defend the South are either just poorly educated on the subject due to the years of the lost cause propaganda impacting the American education system, or they don't value black lives

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scar the 1 posted...

The thing about analogies is that the two things being compared don't have to match 1:1 in every single imaginable aspect. The comparison here is that both are symbols of state oppression of an ethnic group on the basis that they be worth less. Not that the American history of slavery is an exact carbon-copy of the Holocaust, or vice versa.

This. Its become perfectly clear to me over the years that people dont understand how analogies work.

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cjsdowg posted...

It is, people always want to act like the South is so different then the Nazi but they are not. And that is because most of these people who defend the South are either just poorly educated on the subject due to the years of the lost cause propaganda impacting the American education system, or they don't value black lives

im sure pro confederates have positive opinions in some way towards nazi Germany too. I mean I hear the same bs lost cause narrative for them too.

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Similar logic found in another Twitter post

ASithLord7 posted...

Foppe posted...

...the Nazi put Jews in concentration camps for 350 years before Northern Europe told them to stop, and then the Nazi gathered under the newly created Swastika symbol and fought back?
And the Northern European President would later declared that the only Jews they would set free were the ones that were still in Nazi controlled states, while the ones in already liberated states were still allowed to keep going as if nothing had changed at all?

*looks at tag*

lol

I'd really like to say something, but I know he has protection
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It's a fair comparison to make -- especially since White supremacists in Germany use the Confederate flag as a substitute due to Germany's strict laws against Nazi imagery.

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MachineJaipur posted...

Similar logic found in another Twitter post

japan gets a pass for "its our culture to honor all soldiers even war criminals"

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Karen is the n word for white women

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Irony posted...

Karen is the n word for white women

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The difference is that the swastika is ancient and was co-opted by the Nazis for evil.

The confederate flag was born in hate and then co-opted by even more hate.

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Not a good analogy. The Nazis attempted to genocide an entire people on a scale never seen before or since.

I understand the sentiment, but such an analogy may push fringe people away because, to the general public, the Confederate flag and the swastika are probably not equally offensive symbols. The Confederate flag symbolizes the systemic oppression and dehumanization of slaves, certainly a horrible institution. The swastika, however, represents the outright slaughter of millions, the attempted annihilation of an entire people.

Absolutely.

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I feel like only a black Jewish person can answer this question.

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fhqwhgads posted...

I feel like only a black Jewish person can answer this question.

Rashida Jones posts on Gamefaqs?

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kuwab0 posted...

Rashida Jones posts on Gamefaqs?

I wiiish

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The Confederate flag is dumb, but it's definitely not as bad as a Nazi flag.

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Irony posted...

Karen is the n word for white women

karens should fuck off

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Josiah_Is_Back posted...

I understand the sentiment, but such an analogy may push fringe people away because, to the general public, the Confederate flag and the swastika are probably not equally offensive symbols. The Confederate flag symbolizes the systemic oppression and dehumanization of slaves, certainly a horrible institution. The swastika, however, represents the outright slaughter of millions, the attempted annihilation of an entire people.

How many black people do you think died due to slavery and the racism that followed?

I can see the similarities, but one was torn from other religions and tarnished, making it that much worse.

I did have to use the term "worse" though, not "actually bad" or something like that. They're both (really) bad, but comparing the two implies the Confederacy was as bad as Nazi Germany. One was a bunch of raging idiots, the other was a bunch of raging idiots that tried to take over the world.

Though it does beg the question; Would the Confederacy tried to take over the world if they had more firepower?

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The Holocaust and American Slavery were both types of genocides.

Both were a result of racist/bigoted movements that saw these groups as not even people.
One group was treated as pests and exterminated.
One group was treated as property and exploited.

Saying one is worse than the other so they can't be compared is missing the point. A genocide is a genocide no matter what.

Armenian Genocide
Rwandan Genocide
Native American Genocide
Slave Trade Genocide
Jewish Genocide
East Asian Genocide

At the end of the day the victims are going to look at those groups of people and those symbols in the same way.

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SolidShadow3 posted...

One was a bunch of raging idiots, the other was a bunch of raging idiots that tried to take over the world.

You do realize that America has been actively doing that for ages right? Although I'm not very familiar with the confederacy's foreign policy goals, but given that they fought to preserve slavery I can't imagine they would've backed down on the imperialist efforts of the US

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SolidShadow3 posted...

comparing the two implies the Confederacy was as bad as Nazi Germany.

Actually no it doesnt. And this proves my point that people dont understand how analogies work.

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Zano posted...

Actually no it doesnt. And this proves my point that people dont understand how analogies work.

This reminds me of how people suddenly care about black people if you try to compare LGBT discrimination to racial discrimination.

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hockeybub89 posted...

This reminds me of how people suddenly care about black people if you try to compare LGBT discrimination to racial discrimination.

Donald Glover had a bit in a stand-up about how they're quite different. But in the end it kinda depends on the comparison and the point one is making

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Most black people may say that, but genocide isn't really a thing until the Great War but especially associated with the holocaust. Everything else is looked at retroactively.

Slavery was an evil institution, but an economic one not ethnic cleansing

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Dathrowed1 posted...

Most black people may say that, but genocide isn't really a thing until the Great War but especially associated with the holocaust. Everything else is looked at retroactively.

Slavery was an evil institution, but an economic one not ethnic cleansing

Genocide doesn't just mean murdering a group of people on a massive scale. That's one type of genocide but it's not the only one.

The American Slave Trade fits the legal definition of genocide.

https://www.un.org/ar/preventgenocide/adviser/pdf/osapg_analysis_framework.pdf

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Kastrada posted...

The Holocaust and American Slavery were both types of genocides.

American slavery was not a genocide by any definition I have seen or can think of. "Genocide" applies that one race is trying to kill/remove/erase/destroy/etc., another race. Slavery is different because the enslaved race has an inherent value to the oppressors. It is horrible, unjust, terrible, all those things, but it is different than genocide.

I'm not trying to hijack the thread or defend the American slavery system. I am not a confederate supporter or white supremacist or anything like that. As terrible as it was, I just think you are wrong to call American slavery a genocide.

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Yeah I mean the situations arent exactly the same but they are analogous.

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Reminder that the confederacy is only 4 fucking years. Your heritage is not 4 years ~.~

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whitelytning posted...

American slavery was not a genocide by any definition I have seen or can think of. "Genocide" applies that one race is trying to kill/remove/erase/destroy/etc., another race. Slavery is different because the enslaved race has an inherent value to the oppressors. It is horrible, unjust, terrible, all those things, but it is different than genocide.

I'm not trying to hijack the thread or defend the American slavery system. I am not a confederate supporter or white supremacist or anything like that. As terrible as it was, I just think you are wrong to call American slavery a genocide.

My issue with it. The slave decendents here in the states grew exponentially. Genocide ain't down with that. I do wish sugar plantations got as much flack as the cottons ones (why isn't Brazil Angola?)

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whitelytning posted...

American slavery was not a genocide by any definition I have seen or can think of. "Genocide" applies that one race is trying to kill/remove/erase/destroy/etc., another race. Slavery is different because the enslaved race has an inherent value to the oppressors. It is horrible, unjust, terrible, all those things, but it is different than genocide.

I'm not trying to hijack the thread or defend the American slavery system. I am not a confederate supporter or white supremacist or anything like that. As terrible as it was, I just think you are wrong to call American slavery a genocide.

"any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part1 ; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

From the UN right after the Holocaust.

Killing/murder slaves? That's a given. Not on a mass scale since they were property but it's still there.
The issue is that they took people and turned them into not-people. Demoralized, subjected to torture, rape, hardships. Destroyed their entire culture, ripped families apart, children, breeded them.

It was a genocide. Nazi's mass murdered in their genocide. American slavers turned people into beasts of burden in their genocide.

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Kastrada posted...

"any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part1 ; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

From the UN right after the Holocaust.

Killing/murder slaves? That's a given. Not on a mass scale since they were property but it's still there.
The issue is that they took people and turned them into not-people. Demoralized, subjected to torture, rape, hardships. Destroyed their entire culture, ripped families apart, children, breeded them.

It was a genocide. Nazi's mass murdered in their genocide. American slavers turned people into beasts of burden in their genocide.

I fail to see where they tried to destroy Sub-Saharan Africans here (especially since the population in the states exploded compared to other places). Not saying it wasn't horrible, just not: we are trying to actively mow down an ethnic group

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