Current Events > Authors don't owe you a sequel and if you trash them for it you're an asshole.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Martin and Rothfuss are the biggest names regarding this, but tons of authors get shit for it. Even fucking Brandon Sanderson, the most overproductive author out there, has some people complain about certain books not being out. Stephen King and Clive Barker are guilty of it too, among others.

If an author doesn't want to or isn't able to write a book, just shut the fuck up and deal with it. Stop being entitled pricks about it.

All I know is Miyamoto is full of crap for expecting us to believe the reason they don't make F-Zero anymore is because he can't figure out anything new to do with it.

In the era of online multiplayer, and at the time autostereoscopic 3D.

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I can agree with that, though on the other side of things, Phil Fish who made Fez(video game) crowd funded to make Fez 2, and right before they were going to start preproduction, he threw a tantrum and walked off with over a million dollars, with Fez 2 no longer being produced.

So it really depends on the individual. There are some authors who I wish would never make a sequel, Stephen King is one of them. All his good stuff are the one shots he makes. Meanwhile, George R.R Martin needs to stop getting off track and finish the series he started out with. I'm fine with him taking breaks, but he isn't getting any younger, and it would be nice to see how this whole novel set plays out.

So yeah, take as much time as you need to finish the story, just make sure it gets done.

Side note, have you watched the talk between King and Martin? its very interesting. King apparently writes novels in months, writing roughly 6 pages a day.

jeffhardyb0yz posted...

The worst are people who are RUDE to the authors about their entitled sequel. Made a topic about this a few weeks ago. Poor GRR Martin can't have any videos on youtube promoting anything else without being bombarded with "Shut the fuck up and finish the books you fat fuck!" in the comments.

Same for Rothfuss. He has gotten constant attacks about book 3 to the point he hates talking about his books or writing anymore. Those people are honestly part of the reason he hasn't finished, his anxiety for writing it must be huge.

I think it depends.

Martin kinda brought it on himself because he's been (promising) a sequel for near on a decade now in a series of books. Not to say fans don't get out out of hand sometimes but its understandable why they feel betrayed

Now if a series is finished or a book doesn't have an announced or planned sequel then yeah you're a dick for being rude to them.

Ivany2008 posted...

I can agree with that, though on the other side of things, Phil Fish who made Fez(video game) crowd funded to make Fez 2, and right before they were going to start preproduction, he threw a tantrum and walked off with over a million dollars, with Fez 2 no longer being produced.

So it really depends on the individual. There are some authors who I wish would never make a sequel, Stephen King is one of them. All his good stuff are the one shots he makes. Meanwhile, George R.R Martin needs to stop getting off track and finish the series he started out with. I'm fine with him taking breaks, but he isn't getting any younger, and it would be nice to see how this whole novel set plays out.

So yeah, take as much time as you need to finish the story, just make sure it gets done.

Side note, have you watched the talk between King and Martin? its very interesting. King apparently writes novels in months, writing roughly 6 pages a day.

Phil Fish deserves shit for that, but only because it's literal theft.

Also, King has several great sequels, particularly his Dark Tower series, Black House, and Doctor Sleep.

RadiantAdolin posted...

Phil Fish deserves s*** for that, but only because it's literal theft.

It's also one reason to never contribute to crowdfunding.

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Martin does owe it. I don't know about other authors but in his case, yes he owes it. he built his entire fortune on Game of Thrones and promising a complete story. and he failed. the books should have been finished years ago. but didn't he only put out 1 book in the entire lifespan of the tv show? he has no work ethic. and he keeps putting it off and screwing around at conventions and talking about card games and other shit. no, fuck him. the fans made him rich based on a scam.

You don't get to force an author into a sequel but if you are sold an incomplete story with the promise of a sequel, you are well within your rights to be frustrated with the author dragging their feet.

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People do this all over the place. I saw an article earlier about Fergie leaving the Black Eyed Peas to concentrate on raising her kids and some dumb bitch in the comments was like "wtf you can raise your kids AND work, she's just making excuses"

Like bitch, she doesn't have to make excuses and she doesn't owe you more music, fuck off

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MachineJaipur posted...

I think it depends.

Martin kinda brought it on himself because he's been (promising) a sequel for near on a decade now in a series of books. Not to say fans don't get out out of hand sometimes but its understandable why they feel betrayed

Now if a series is finished or a book doesn't have an announced or planned sequel then yeah you're a dick for being rude to them.

Have you seen Martin's blog? He talks way more about Wild Cards (some graphic novel series that he helps edit) and the NFL than ASOIAF.

Eh. Personally I give Martin the benefit of the doubt. It is not an easy task to write a sequel to DWD. You can argue that's his own fault for making the story so complex, though.

I also think this volume is different because, with his other books, he only needed a vague idea of where he thought his various plot lines are going. But in the penultimate volume, he needs pretty concrete setup to lead into the ending of that makes sense.

Additionally, from his comments about how the first book he set out to write turned into three books, I can see how his writing style would slow with every new plot line. Where a writer probably can and maybe even should take a shortcut once in a while just to move certain pieces into place, he is somebody that is so unwilling to do so that the Red Wedding moved from book 1 to book 3.

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Zikten posted...

Martin does owe it.

Nope.

Zikten posted...

he built his entire fortune on Game of Thrones

He was already well respected and 15 books into the Wild Cards series when Game of Thrones came out, so no.

Zikten posted...

the books should have been finished years ago. but didn't he only put out 1 book in the entire lifespan of the tv show? he has no work ethic. and he keeps putting it off and screwing around at conventions

You sound like you have no idea what writing is like.

Zikten posted...

Martin does owe it. I don't know about other authors but in his case, yes he owes it. he built his entire fortune on Game of Thrones and promising a complete story. and he failed. the books should have been finished years ago. but didn't he only put out 1 book in the entire lifespan of the tv show? he has no work ethic. and he keeps putting it off and screwing around at conventions and talking about card games and other shit. no, fuck him. the fans made him rich based on a scam.

The entitlement in this post, Jesus

GodIsImaginary posted...

He talks way more about Wild Cards (some graphic novel series that he helps edit)

You should check out Wild Cards. It's not graphic novels but a series written by several authors including Martin about an alternate history with superheroes being involved in US history.

Fandoms are basically Super Karens. Their hair turns piss and their eyes turn Grinch colored and their entitlement levels increase 50x and they let out a piggy squeal that lasts two episodes.

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well maybe he shouldn't make the books so complex. or make them move so slow. I've only read part of the first book but I am told that his writing often spends entire chapters going off on tangents unrelated to the main plots. and one of the reasons ths books are so long and there are so many books is that he just does a lot of "filler". without moving the main story forward

Zikten posted...

well maybe he shouldn't make the books so complex. or make them move so slow. I've only read part of the first book but I am told that his writing often spends entire chapters going off on tangents unrelated to the main plots. and one of the reasons ths books are so long and there are so many books is that he just does a lot of "filler". without moving the main story forward

How are you going to complain about someone not finishing a book series when you haven't even read them

RadiantAdolin posted...

You sound like you have no idea what writing is like.

no, I have tried to write. I know its hard. as a kid I had a dream of being an author but I couldn't do it. Stephen King writes way more than Martin, and he has criticized Martin before. if you wont' listen to me, listen to Stephen King

Nobody should be harassing an author over a not getting a sequel.

That said, it is not entitled for fans of an uncompleted series to want that series completed. And authors should be prepared to receive some amount of civil displeasure from their fans if they are taking their sweet time on that.

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Zikten posted...

well maybe he shouldn't make the books so complex. or make them move so slow. I've only read part of the first book but I am told that his writing often spends entire chapters going off on tangents unrelated to the main plots. and one of the reasons ths books are so long and there are so many books is that he just does a lot of "filler". without moving the main story forward

Literally everything he does is either moving the story forward or adding relevant detail and making the story better. Nothing he writes is "filler".

And LOL @ "Maybe he shouldn't make the books so complex". What an inane statement.

FlameTurtle posted...

How are you going to complain about someone not finishing a book series when you haven't even read them

I watched the show. and I am aware of the fandom being frustrated. I don't actually care that much about the books personally. but I know others do. and I agree with them that Martin owes it to them. he would be nothing without game of thrones

Zikten posted...

no, I have tried to write. I know its hard. as a kid I had a dream of being an author but I couldn't do it. Stephen King writes way more than Martin, and he has criticized Martin before. if you wont' listen to me, listen to Stephen King

Where did King ever criticize Martin?

Zikten posted...

he would be nothing without game of thrones

Again, literally 100% wrong.

Honestly, I would never ever write anything with continuity.

Too many people write their own sequels in their heads and get mad when the official sequel doesn't end up identical to it.

Besides, what's the fun in continuity anyway? Why would I want to spend years writing Slaphappy Sam and the Football Captain and then spend more years writing Slaphappy Sam Goes to College? I'd rather just Happily Slap the ending together and get to work on Android Andy instead. If for no other reason, just for some variety in my own dang life.

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Authors are allowed to not write books and fans are allowed to be upset at the lack of books. Not sure why this is a big deal.

RadiantAdolin posted...

Where did King ever criticize Martin?

there is a famous video of both authors on a stage with some guy interviewing them. Martin mentions how he is shocked how much King can write. and King said something about how you need to work harder and make yourself write a certain number of pages ago and not let yourself fail to fulfill the number, each day. it was implied in King's words that he thinks Martin is a slacker

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html

>when the famous stop being entitled post came out 11 years ago and the series still isn't finished

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Thing with Martin and ASOIAF is that he wrote the first 3 books stupid quickly. He wrote and published three books in the span of four years. His fourth took longer to write than the previous three combined. (5 years). His fifth took even longer than that (6 years!) Now it's been about a decade and there is no sixth book even close to coming out yet. People would bitch a lot less if he was a more consistent writer.

Zikten posted...

there is a famous video of both authors on a stage with some guy interviewing them. Martin mentions how he is shocked how much King can write. and King said something about how you need to work harder and make yourself write a certain number of pages ago and not let yourself fail to fulfill the number, each day. it was implied in King's words that he thinks Martin is a slacker

Martin is also a screenwriter though, he's written lots of tv scripts and pilot scripts. He's always had other stuff going on besides novel writing.

I don't see how this applies to grrm, if he didn't insist on making more books I'd be happy to be done with the series.

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Slayerblade11 posted...

Thing with Martin and ASOIAF is that he wrote the first 3 books stupid quickly. He wrote and published three books in the span of four years. His fourth took longer to write than the previous three combined. (5 years). His fifth took even longer than that (6 years!) Now it's been about a decade and there is no sixth book even close to coming out yet. People would bitch a lot less if he was a more consistent writer.

It's a little misleading because he started writing the series in 1991, with many of the events of the 3rd book planned for the first volume. Much of the second and third book were written prior to publishing GoT 5 years later in 1996. The first 3 books were published and written over the span of nine years, and the years between were spent revising the story and adjusting them for single releases.

Now that does mean he slowed down, but he had a pretty good idea of where the first three books were headed pretty early on since he imagined it as a single volume. The series has also become for difficult to write for because of the ever increasing complexity of the plot. Idk, i just don't think this time frame is that unreasonable.

Consider how much simpler things were in GoT compared to DwD, and imagine how much more difficult it is to write a follow up to the latter.

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Zikten posted...

it was implied in King's words that he thinks Martin is a slacker

No it wasn't.

Another aspect in sympathetic to is that when writing ASOIAF at the start, he didn't know he was essentially writing the books that will define his legacy. That's a lot of additional pressure, especially considering how a bad ending can really spoil a series.

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Jabodie posted...

Now that does mean he slowed down, but he had a pretty good idea of where the first three books were headed pretty early on since he imagined it as a single volume. The series has also become for difficult to write for because of the ever increasing complexity of the plot. Idk, i just don't think this time frame is that unreasonable

he had planned a trilogy but it has just gotten away from him

Like a feast for crows literally exists because he decided an originally planned time skip wouldn't be enough to explain to the reader everything they would miss in the narrative

It's just a weird thing to bring up in this topic because it's grrms inability to finish the story rather than a demand for more books from the fans, like most fans would rather have had the time skip and fewer books to read but an actual resolution to the story. No one is really asking for more content any more

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Balrog0 posted...

he had planned a trilogy but it has just gotten away from him

Like a feast for crows literally exists because he decided an originally planned time skip wouldn't be enough to explain to the reader everything they would miss in the narrative

It's just a weird thing to bring up in this topic because it's grrms inability to finish the story rather than a demand for more books from the fans, like most fans would rather have had the time skip and fewer books to read but an actual resolution to the story. No one is really asking for more content any more

Eh, personally I'd rather keep the quality up than take "shortcuts." And regarding the time skip, I remember the issue being that many characters wouldn't wait five years to pursue many of the plotlines he wanted to tell, so it became a mess for him.

But I've made peace with never having another book. Even without a resolution, what we have is excellent and worth reading. Like I'd rather he take his time but die before finishing than he "rush" (by his standards) something out so it's done.

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RadiantAdolin posted...

You should check out Wild Cards. It's not graphic novels but a series written by several authors including Martin about an alternate history with superheroes being involved in US history.

I enjoy the Wild Cards series more than Ice and Fire.

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I disagree in cases like TWEWY.
Square Enix infinitely releases the original game. Each rerelease teases something extra, something more. They have some of the TWEWY characters in Kingdom Hearts and tease a bit extra there. Yet they just wont release a real sequel. It doesnt matter what TC thinks. Thats some bullshit.

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EbonTitanium posted...

I enjoy the Wild Cards series more than Ice and Fire.

Right? It's unique and generally a lot of fun.

Rika_Furude posted...

I disagree in cases like TWEWY.
Square Enix infinitely releases the original game. Each rerelease teases something extra, something more. They have some of the TWEWY characters in Kingdom Hearts and tease a bit extra there. Yet they just wont release a real sequel. It doesnt matter what TC thinks. Thats some bullshit.

Well that's also paired with rumors/ speculation that Nomura wants to do a sequel but they won't green light it/ want him to keep pumping out KH instead.

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I feel bad for Martin because it's basically turned him into a hermit. He can't even post on Twitter without getting abuse. And it's not even from people who care. It's just another bandwagon meme.

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Jabodie posted...

Eh, personally I'd rather keep the quality up than take "shortcuts."

I don't follow you. Not letting your trilogy turn into 7 books isn't a shortcut to me

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Balrog0 posted...

I don't follow you. Not letting your trilogy turn into 7 books isn't a shortcut to me

It's why I put it in quotes. What's a shortcut will really depend on writing style imo. From George's perspective, many events had to occur prior to the Red Wedding which ultimately moved in from book 1 to book 3. While a different writer would either a) go into less detail or b) alter events to make it occur more quickly, he decided not to compromise on his vision for the books. This is what I mean by a shortcut.

And it's that approach that gave them the quality they have imo. A more disciplined writer may have done something different, but at the cost of turning the books into something else entirely. Does that make him a bad writer? Idk, but imo the series has benefited from it.

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Title made me think of Rothfuss. I had heard rumors of a release date months ago, but in looking it up I see those were false. It would be nice to finish it up, but I don't recall ever complaining about it. Did get a chuckle out of those unfortunate quotes years back, which might make me a bit of a jerk. If he really doesn't enjoy writing that makes sense, I'm satisfied with what I did get to read at this point.

Ive come to expect that a Dream of Spring will never release and asoiaf will be an incomplete series. I can be content with what we got

DevsBro posted...

All I know is Miyamoto is full of crap for expecting us to believe the reason they don't make F-Zero anymore is because he can't figure out anything new to do with it.

In the era of online multiplayer, and at the time autostereoscopic 3D.

Or Wars.
Apparently, the franchise is dead because Intelligent Systems supposedly can't figure out how to add waifus into a franchise full of waifus already.

Jabodie posted...

And it's that approach that gave them the quality they have imo. A more disciplined writer may have done something different, but at the cost of turning the books into something else entirely. Does that make him a bad writer? Idk, but imo the series has benefited from it.

It's hard to agree. The earlier books where he was less able to indulge his whims were significantly better than AFfC or DWD

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Balrog0 posted...

It's hard to agree. The earlier books where he was less able to indulge his whims were significantly better than AFfC or DWD

So bear in mind I read all of these books in the same month. But I personally don't think there was a big drop in writing quality.

The big change is probably how undisciplined he is with adding pov characters, but even then I think it comes with certain benefits.

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I don't think Clash of Kings is particularly great.

In fact, I think it's the second worst after Dance with Dragons. I don't really get the dislike for Feast, I guess. I found the new perspectives engaging.
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