Poll of the Day > Is JK Rowling catching heat for saying something about trans women?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Clench281 posted...

Don't stress too hard trying to think of an argument that doesn't rely on absurdity, ok?

You might shock yourself if you activate more than a handful of neurons, ok?

The assertion that men are women is absurd.

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Clench281 posted...

Don't stress too hard trying to think of an argument that doesn't rely on absurdity, ok?

You might shock yourself if you activate more than a handful of neurons, ok?

ok, mr. shut-in insane person who only eats eggs, keep sending death threats to someone whose comments are nowhere near worth the energy, ok?

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ninja_lootz posted...

The assertion that men are women is absurd.

JK would be wrong even if trans people didn't exist, so try again. See my first post in this topic thanks

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Aculo posted...

ok, mr. shut-in insane person who only eats eggs, keep sending death threats to someone whose comments are nowhere near worth the energy, ok?

Um the whole world is shut in right now, there's a pandemic, ok?

xd

I've only had 3 eggs today btw

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adjl posted...

They certainly are. They just shouldn't be surprised when saying things people don't like results in those people not liking them. Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.

There is no freedom of Speech in the UK which Rowling is from.

Clench281 posted...

JK would be wrong even if trans people didn't exist, so try again. See my first post in this topic thanks

If trans people didn't exist then there would be no way she would be wrong.
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ninja_lootz posted...

The assertion that men are women is absurd.

you're right, it is, but we're talking about trans women, not men

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Actually wouldnt it be trans-men they were including as "people who menstruate" ?

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Krazy_Kirby posted...

if someone thinks they are jesus, do you hate that person if you don't cater to them?

no trans person is claiming to be a fucking messiah though, that's the dumbest analogy.

I swear you folks have to rely on insane analogies that make no sense just to pretend to have a semblance of a point.

ninja_lootz posted...

The assertion that men are women is absurd.

grow up

ChimeraBlue posted...

I am talking about how one reacts personally to different opinions, not the legality, ethics or value of opinions.

You state "Not all unethical things are forbidden yet, but it doesn't mean people should use them". Whether or not someone should or should not say something is irrelevant. People are going to say things you don't like. Period.

How you react to these opinions is entirely up to you. It can be beneficial to look directly at something that upsets you and examine it holistically and honestly. Remove your personal feelings from the equation and just look at it.

Your previous post on this topic seems to say that public hate or offensive comments or opinions happen and there is no need to "feel obligated to feel outraged" because "some are bound to offend".

So basically your post would suggest to leave them there and not voice a concern.

Not really a five star advice.


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Revelation34 posted...

If trans people didn't exist then there would be no way she would be wrong.

Post menopausal women aren't women?

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Valkenhyne posted...

I swear you folks have to rely on insane analogies that make no sense just to pretend to have a semblance of a point.

when the reality is just as insane--

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Dreamgamer_lgbt posted...

Your previous post on this topic seems to say that public hate or offensive comments or opinions happen and there is no need to "feel obligated to feel outraged" because "some are bound to offend".

So basically your post would suggest to leave them there and not voice a concern.

Not really a five star advice.

To be fair, in this current social climate the criteria for what is considered hateful or offensive speech is pretty ridiculous. Almost any opposing opinion can be misconstrued as hateful simply because it deviates from a particular groups beliefs. This happens on both sides of the political spectrum.

Social media has given people the opportunity to instantly share their opinion and see the opinions of others, even when these opinions have absolutely no affect on their own lives. Which is why I stated that you don't have to feel obligated to feel outraged at every perceived slight from something you read or see. If you go looking for it, you will find it. That will never change.

The relationship between technology and free speech is a tricky subject, and one I wasn't intending to get involved in. This is why I emphasized the personal component, not what should or shouldn't be from an ethical, legal or moral point of view.

ChimeraBlue posted...

To be fair, in this current social climate the criteria for what is considered hateful or offensive speech is pretty ridiculous. Almost any opposing opinion can be misconstrued as hateful simply because it deviates from a particular groups beliefs. This happens on both sides of the political spectrum.

Social media has given people the opportunity to instantly share their opinion and see the opinions of others, even when these opinions have absolutely no affect on their own lives. Which is why I stated that you don't have to feel obligated to feel outraged at every perceived slight from something you read or see. If you go looking for it, you will find it. That will never change.

The relationship between technology and free speech is a tricky subject, and one I wasn't intending to get involved in. This is why I emphasized the personal component, not what should or shouldn't be from an ethical, legal or moral point of view.

Can't take away ethical,legal and moral aspect from public statements.

That's just what modern society finds important for the further development of culture.

But you have your view on it and that's fine . I have my opinion on it and I am just giving readers option to see it different way too, so that they can choose and not fall into assumption that your view is everyone's view on the subject.

You mention that it's hard with today's criteria in the current social climate , but that's just what comes with development of humanity and the cultures. Can't be stuck in stone age forever. To adapt and try be better is important.

Also, there are rules which forbid some opinions ( usually regarding racism ) to be spoken about ,so why should other bad opinions ( for example homophobic or opinions offending certain groups ) be allowed ?

The reason I reacted to your post is simply because it is in this topic which is about JKR offending trans people and your post makes it look like offensive comments towards trans people are not as important to extent where people should not care - or as you say " not feel obligated " ?!

It should be peoples priority to make sure their public opinions are not offensive to other people, it's not that hard.


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Valkenhyne posted...

no trans person is claiming to be a fucking messiah though, that's the dumbest analogy.

I swear you folks have to rely on insane analogies that make no sense just to pretend to have a semblance of a point.

i have to use vague analogies because stating my beliefs gets snowflakes upset
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ChimeraBlue posted...

To be fair, in this current social climate the criteria for what is considered hateful or offensive speech is pretty ridiculous. Almost any opposing opinion can be misconstrued as hateful simply because it deviates from a particular groups beliefs. This happens on both sides of the political spectrum.

exactly. never any middle ground, only black and white, 'either you're with us or against us' mentality, ok?

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This kinda reminds me of BASEetball.

Dreamgamer_lgbt posted...

It should be peoples priority to make sure their public opinions are not offensive to other people, it's not that hard.

HAHAHAA

Lol no, because what is offensive to other people is constantly changing and what is offensive to someone is different for different groups of people. You cant ever please everyone, and trying to be a people pleaser is suppressive of your own personality. I might have had a much better personality if I wasnt so worried about conflict all the time. I am basically afraid to say anything because I dont want to offend anyone.

https://tinyurl.com/y8zk6o3h

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Dreamgamer_lgbt posted...

Can't take away ethical,legal and moral aspect from public statements.

That's just what modern society finds important for the further development of culture.

But you have your view on it and that's fine . I have my opinion on it and I am just giving readers option to see it different way too, so that they can choose and not fall into assumption that your view is everyone's view on the subject.

You mention that it's hard with today's criteria in the current social climate , but that's just what comes with development of humanity and the cultures. Can't be stuck in stone age forever. To adapt and try be better is important.

Also, there are rules which forbid some opinions ( usually regarding racism ) to be spoken about ,so why should other bad opinions ( for example homophobic or opinions offending certain groups ) be allowed ?

The reason I reacted to your post is simply because it is in this topic which is about JKR offending trans people and your post makes it look like offensive comments towards trans people are not as important to extent where people should not care - or as you say " not feel obligated " ?!

It should be peoples priority to make sure their public opinions are not offensive to other people, it's not that hard.

Even if people get "offended" over a nonissue such as James Gunn's Twitter comments?
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

i have to use vague analogies because stating my beliefs gets snowflakes upset

I don't care what your excuse for it is, try making a decent point.

I just don't see why it's so hard for people to pay the barest minimum of common decency to others. Why do you care what others identify as, and why does referring to people the way they want to be referred to upset you? You don't have to understand them to be empathetic to them. If someone referred to you as a woman when you identify as a man or vice versa, I'm sure it'd frustrate you too.

Valkenhyne posted...

I don't care what your excuse for it is, try making a decent point.

I just don't see why it's so hard for people to pay the barest minimum of common decency to others. Why do you care what others identify as, and why does referring to people the way they want to be referred to upset you? You don't have to understand them to be empathetic to them.

By that same logic those people shouldn't care what those kinds of people think.
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Dreamgamer_lgbt posted...

It should be peoples priority to make sure their public opinions are not offensive to other people, it's not that hard.

no it shouldn't.

what other people say shouldn't affect you
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Revelation34 posted...

By that same logic those people shouldn't care what those kinds of people think.

No because my logic isn't refusing to acknowledge someone's identity, mine is accepting each other for who they are as a person. If you're trying to imply that my logic could be used to say we should accept anti-trans people, the massive, obvious, glaring difference is that those people are pushing an inherently hateful ideology.

Again, you don't have to understand someone to accept them as they are and show a bare minimum of common decency. Everyone is on their own journey in life, people don't need to make things harder for each other.

Valkenhyne posted...

No because my logic isn't refusing to acknowledge someone's identity, mine is accepting each other for who they are as a person. If you're trying to imply that my logic could be used to say we should accept anti-trans people, the massive, obvious, glaring difference is that those people are pushing an inherently hateful ideology.

Again, you don't have to understand someone to accept them as they are and show a bare minimum of common decency. Everyone is on their own journey in life, people don't need to make things harder for each other.

No my point is they should ignore them instead of trying to cancel them.
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Revelation34 posted...

No my point is they should ignore them instead of trying to cancel them.

Maaaaan I don't know. On one hand, cancel culture doesn't leave any room for a person to learn from their mistake and grow, but on the other, I think people with large audiences spreading hateful messages (and the people that parrot them) should be heavily criticised publicly or we risk allowing those messages to be normalised and potentially cause further hurt, and further discrimination towards the groups of people we're talking about.

It's a tricky situation and tbh I don't think this website is the best place to get a decent discussion on it, but there is definitely some merit to what you're saying.

Valkenhyne posted...

Maaaaan I don't know. On one hand, cancel culture doesn't leave any room for a person to learn from their mistake and grow, but on the other, I think people with large audiences spreading hateful messages (and the people that parrot them) should be heavily criticised publicly or we risk allowing those messages to be normalised and potentially cause further hurt, and further discrimination towards the groups of people we're talking about.

It's a tricky situation and tbh I don't think this website is the best place to get a decent discussion on it, but there is definitely some merit to what you're saying.

Pretty much.

Like do I find this gross? Yes.
But I also think that people can grow/change. I flat out said in regards to the Elongated Man actor thing that all we're teaching people is to not bother to stop acting like a shithead when we dredge up old stuff

While she, like anyone else, has the potential to grow/change I do agree that not saying anything can allow this to spread. And cause further harm.

I'm not sure how JK Rowling can be cancelled exactly though either. Afaik she's putting more into staying 'relevant' than on any projects.

It seems like to me she's to the point people on all sides just wish she'd shut up, and she's just trying to keep getting attention. Maybe ignoring her would be for the best, but when there's people actually trying to put some laws into play that becomes even more hard to let stuff like this slide.

Idk, feels like another no win situation. Or, you know, 2020 in a nutshell.

Someone probably answered it, but it had nothing to do with what TC said. Shes been very vocal about hating trans women because theyre men, and justifies it by saying that men hurt women so they shouldnt be around womens restrooms.

And then ends it by saying well actually I think trans women are victims of men too, and leaves it at that.

Shes just a dumb terf who hides behind being a woman because she can claim SEXISM when someone tells her shes about 30 years behind the times.

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deoxxys posted...

HAHAHAA

Lol no, because what is offensive to other people is constantly changing and what is offensive to someone is different for different groups of people. You cant ever please everyone, and trying to be a people pleaser is suppressive of your own personality. I might have had a much better personality if I wasnt so worried about conflict all the time. I am basically afraid to say anything because I dont want to offend anyone.

https://tinyurl.com/y8zk6o3h

Lol , so in your theory if some racist would go posting youtube videos about how he hates other races do you actually think he would get away with it and could defend himself that he's okay because his opinion would be offensive to just some people?

this is getting funny.

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ChaosAzeroth posted...

Pretty much.

Like do I find this gross? Yes.
But I also think that people can grow/change. I flat out said in regards to the Elongated Man actor thing that all we're teaching people is to not bother to stop acting like a shithead when we dredge up old stuff

While she, like anyone else, has the potential to grow/change I do agree that not saying anything can allow this to spread. And cause further harm.

I'm not sure how JK Rowling can be cancelled exactly though either. Afaik she's putting more into staying 'relevant' than on any projects.

It seems like to me she's to the point people on all sides just wish she'd shut up, and she's just trying to keep getting attention. Maybe ignoring her would be for the best, but when there's people actually trying to put some laws into play that becomes even more hard to let stuff like this slide.

Idk, feels like another no win situation. Or, you know, 2020 in a nutshell.

Depends on the country. A law like that would be unconstitutional in America.

PK_Spam posted...

Someone probably answered it, but it had nothing to do with what TC said. Shes been very vocal about hating trans women because theyre men, and justifies it by saying that men hurt women so they shouldnt be around womens restrooms.

And then ends it by saying well actually I think trans women are victims of men too, and leaves it at that.

Shes just a dumb terf who hides behind being a woman because she can claim SEXISM when someone tells her shes about 30 years behind the times.

This has actually happened though.

Dreamgamer_lgbt posted...

Lol , so in your theory if some racist would go posting youtube videos about how he hates other races do you actually think he would get away with it and could defend himself that he's okay because his opinion would be offensive to just some people?

this is getting funny.

Legally yes. It would be against YouTube's rules though so would be removed.
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Revelation34 posted...

Depends on the country. A law like that would be unconstitutional in America.

This has actually happened though.

Legally yes. It would be against YouTube's rules though so would be removed.

Not sure how in other countries, but here in Canada I've seen some legal cases even from inappropriate speech or behavior. Not even mentioning racist public opinions. Ugh...that wouldn't be good.

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What did she say that is so wrong?

She believes that women's bath rooms should be for people born a woman only. She supports the rights of people to transition and be treated like a woman, and she isn't even really against trans who have had surgery being able to use women's restrooms. She is against MEN being let in only because they claim they are a woman, and she is a survivor of sexual and physical abuse. That seems understandable to me(That she would have that opinion).

She doesn't seem to hate trans at all, in fact she has donated time/energy and money towards systems that would defend them (or at least trans women). She feels trans women have many of the same problems women have with abuse etc, and has helped put up protections for them.

If you think any guy should be able to claim he is a woman and use a women's rest room or changing room, fine, but to call someone who doesn't feel that way a horrible person, anti-trans, a terf etc, is horrid.

I'm not a fan of her books, her movies, and didn't really have any knowledge of her before this, but I read her response (more than probably 99.5% of people hating on her did) and I can see her point of view.

Leave the poor woman alone, seriously. What is up with all the abuse being thrown around today that is considered "ok" because someones opinion is unpopular or doesn't mesh with a communities ideas?

If your trans, more power to you, but everyone in the world doesn't have to agree with everything you do, or change their lives drastically. Having MEN in a women's restroom is a massive change, and especially bad for the MANY women out there who have been sexually assaulted or abused.

Wait you say, are you calling trans-women MEN?

Nope, and neither was she, she was specifically talking about a law that will allow any man to be considered a woman just by saying they are, meaning horny guys, rapists etc, could just claim to be a woman and enter changing rooms etc.

That seems insane to me. Have you SEEN how some young guys act? In what world do you think this wouldn't be taken advantage of by guys, cause it sure as heck isn't this one.

Push for seperate uni-sex bathrooms for everyone, or individual bathrooms for people who don't like sharing a bathroom all together (I fit in there, I don't like peeing next to some other guy, I generally pee in the toilet to avoid it in fact).

All this hate is just disgusting, this women seems like she has actively tried to help make the world a better place most of her life, she was a teacher, she wrote books that made an impact on many, and she has started and contributed to organiztions that provide safe places for women (and from what I understand trans-women as well) who have suffered from abuse etc.

That is more than almost ALL the people who are currently calling her out for her ideas and opinions.

Shame on you all.

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Revelation34 posted...

Depends on the country. A law like that would be unconstitutional in America.

Except they're trying to pass anti-trans legislation in the US.

They're trying to make people go into the bathroom that matches what's on the birth certificate, and trying to get birth certificate changes taken away.

Which obviously proves how little they actually understand about it. Someone could be fully transitioned... Then what?

There's already footage of two cis male police officers removing a cis woman from the women's restroom for not having her ID and apparently being suspicious for not being 'feminine' enough I guess.

So... Yeah there are definitely places in the US that have no fucks to give.

ChaosAzeroth posted...

Except they're trying to pass anti-trans legislation in the US.

They're trying to make people go into the bathroom that matches what's on the birth certificate, and trying to get birth certificate changes taken away.

Which obviously proves how little they actually understand about it. Someone could be fully transitioned... Then what?

There's already footage of two cis male police officers removing a cis woman from the women's restroom for not having her ID and apparently being suspicious for not being 'feminine' enough I guess.

So... Yeah there are definitely places in the US that have no fucks to give.

It would be unconstitutional too. Look what happened to proposition 8.
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I dont even recognise this topic anymore

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FatalAccident posted...

Am I missing something here? As far as I know she responded to a tweet that referred to women as people who menstruate and she was like wtf, just say theyre called women. And I think she had another tweet after that, but shes catching heat for that string of tweets.

What am I missing here?

I thought this was a long time ago. I read what she said and it wasnt that bad. Just people with nothing better to do complaining.

Just leaving this here for anyone who might need it.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/transgender-prisoner-who-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life

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zebatov posted...

I thought this was a long time ago. I read what she said and it wasnt that bad. Just people with nothing better to do complaining.

Just leaving this here for anyone who might need it.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/transgender-prisoner-who-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life

I dont think thats relevant to anything

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Dreamgamer_lgbt posted...

Lol , so in your theory if some racist would go posting youtube videos about how he hates other races do you actually think he would get away with it and could defend himself that he's okay because his opinion would be offensive to just some people?

this is getting funny.

Do you only deal in extremes?

Usually these "offensive" things are never that harsh.

More often then not its some petty bullshit that you cant expect normal people to know.

Not to mention there is so many different groups in America that if you try appeasing one group, you're offending another.

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deoxxys posted...

Do you only deal in extremes?

Usually these "offensive" things are never that harsh.

More often then not its some petty bullshit that you cant expect normal people to know.

Not to mention there is so many different groups in America that if you try appeasing one group, you're offending another.

"Normal people" lol

These offensive things may not seem harsh to you but you aren't the one being targeted by it. Maybe if you listened to others and at least tried to take on board what they say, you'd have the empathy and understanding to appropriately respond to it.

We've all done and said problematic shit, it's learning from it that I think is important. If you offend someone, it doesn't take much to apologise and learn from the situation so that the same mistake isn't made again. The problem with JK is that, like most famous people, they have too big an audience to slip up like this. Not to mention, a lot of the time they think their opinions are too importantant so they don't learn from it, they just act like they're being berated by the troll scapegoat rather than actual people criticising them. There's an excellent, long thread that breaks down JK's most recent tyrade but I guarantee the people it's intended for are too narcissistic to read it.

Here's the thread in question: https://twitter.com/Carter_AndrewJ/status/1270787941275762689

deoxxys posted...

I love her books

Same. Don't care about her personal life though.

Dreamgamer_lgbt posted...

It should be peoples priority to make sure their public opinions are not offensive to other people, it's not that hard.

It certainly is hard when some folk get offended over nothing because they need drama in their life. I post what I want, when I want and don't care if YOU like it or not as your feelings are not important to me. The same can be said for any other random person.

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deoxxys posted...

Do you only deal in extremes?

Usually these "offensive" things are never that harsh.

More often then not its some petty bullshit that you cant expect normal people to know.

Not to mention there is so many different groups in America that if you try appeasing one group, you're offending another.

it's the oppression Olympics, and the trans community is trying so hard for that gold, ok?

they genuinely believe their struggle is the most important in all of history, above slavery, racism and genocide, and anyone who says otherwise is an actual nazi, ok?

i don't know why everything has to be hyperbole with them, or why they insist that they have it worse than literally any other "oppressed" group in history. at one point, people are going to tire of the extreme nature of their behavior, and they will lose their voice. i hope it doesn't come to that, but that's the direction they're headed in, ok?

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Aculo posted...

it's the oppression Olympics, and the trans community is trying so hard for that gold, ok?

they genuinely believe their struggle is the most important in all of history, above slavery, racism and genocide, and anyone who says otherwise is an actual nazi, ok?

i don't know why everything has to be hyperbole with them, or why they insist that they have it worse than literally any other "oppressed" group in history. at one point, people are going to tire of the extreme nature of their behavior, and they will lose their voice. i hope it doesn't come to that, but that's the direction they're headed in, ok?

No one is saying their struggle is more than others. You say you hate hyperbole then immediately drop hyperbole. Can their struggle not be important to them, regardless of other people struggling? Can we not care about more than one thing? Or are you just scared of change?

Who am I kidding, you evidently don't give a shit about trans folk in the first place.

Valkenhyne posted...

Can their struggle not be important to them, regardless of other people struggling? Can we not care about more than one thing? Or are you just scared of change?

1. Nope
2. Nope
3. Yes

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wwinterj25 posted...

1. Nope
2. Nope
3. Yes

Well, at least you're honest. I can only hope you grow up one day and realise being hateful isn't edgy or cool, it just puts others down for a fake sense of superiority. I've been there and frankly, it sucks.

Aculo posted...

they genuinely believe their struggle is the most important in all of history, above slavery, racism and genocide, and anyone who says otherwise is an actual nazi, ok?

i don't know why everything has to be hyperbole with them, or why they insist that they have it worse than literally any other "oppressed" group in history. at one point, people are going to tire of the extreme nature of their behavior, and they will lose their voice. i hope it doesn't come to that, but that's the direction they're headed in, ok?

I definitely don't remember saying or acting like that in any way.

Valkenhyne posted...

I can only hope you grow up one day and realise being hateful isn't edgy or cool, it just puts others down for a fake sense of superiority. I've been there and frankly, it sucks.

Yeah, well that's your opinion Mr sensitive. I'm the coolest person I know!

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Valkenhyne posted...

You say you hate hyperbole then immediately give an example of how much they drop hyperbole, ok?

fixed that for you, ok?


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Aculo posted...

fixed that for you, ok?

It's not an example if you just make it up based on nothing my dude. By all means, continue your prejudice - I consider you a lost cause anyway.

Valkenhyne posted...

I consider you a lost cause anyway.

typical response from the community. opinions don't align perfectly with your own, you bully, then dismiss anything they say. you people don't actually want a discussion, you just want to be right, ok?

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https://i.imgur.com/XvW5NxF.jpg

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Aculo posted...

typical response from the community. opinions don't align perfectly with your own, you bully, then dismiss anything they say. you people don't actually want a discussion, you just want to be right, ok?

If the discussion is allowing people to identify as the gender they feel more comfortable with, I don't see the need for that discussion. Denial of someone's identity isn't up for debate, it's pathetic. I would LOVE to live in a world where people like you could understand how they feel and act in these situations is hurtful, but I'm not that naive.

wwinterj25 posted...

https://i.imgur.com/XvW5NxF.jpg

lol

Valkenhyne posted...

I don't see the need for that discussion

you don't say...

way to 100% prove my point, ok?

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