Current Events > NYT writer demands whites cut off contact w/ relatives unless they join protests

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shockthemonkey posted...

They didnt. They said that protesters demands should be met because theyre protesting a public health crisis and giving in to their demands will alleviate two public health issues.

He just doesnt understand their argument so he posts one sentence of it out of context because he thinks it makes him look smart.

Holy shit LMAO, how many times do I have to utterly humiliate you? You've lost, in a BIG way. Accept it.

Annihilated posted...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/health-care-open-letter-protests-coronavirus-trnd/index.html

It is hypocritical that the government and health experts went from saying "any large gathering cannot happen, even religious services" to "the BLM protests must go on anyway."

But I think they're just acknowledging reality -- people are going to protest no matter what, and if the government tries to ban all protests, even totally peaceful ones, then we really do look like a fascist state.

I find nothing wrong with this article or its message.

Seems what he's saying is black people don't need white people to send cheap sympathy or pity as a way to assuage their own guilt.

You know how you all complain about "thoughts and prayers"? This is literally what the author is trying to say.

He's also saying you might actually have to do difficult things in order to enact meaningful change. You might have to make a sacrifice and that might be a relationship you thought was rock solid until you saw them posting pro-police graphics on their Facebook.

I'm dealing with two such people right now. One is an infrequently seen family member I can push to the back of my head, but another I deal with on a fairly frequent basis. I'm trying very hard to find ways I can get across what I want, maybe reach out to them, and still maintain the friendship. And we're part of a group too, a group that this person is largely at the center of. Were I to speak up, would I be jeopardizing not only that friendship, but also the friendship of everyone connected?

That's what this article is talking about, from my point of view.

Quite frankly I think I'm one of the lucky ones if it's only two people.

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CyricZ posted...

I find nothing wrong with this article or its message.

Seems what he's saying is black people don't need white people to send cheap sympathy or pity as a way to assuage their own guilt.

You know how you all complain about "thoughts and prayers"? This is literally what the author is trying to say.

He's also saying you might actually have to do difficult things in order to enact meaningful change. You might have to make a sacrifice and that might be a relationship you thought was rock solid until you saw them posting pro-police graphics on their Facebook.

I'm dealing with two such people right now. One is an infrequently seen family member I can push to the back of my head, but another I deal with on a fairly frequent basis. I'm trying very hard to find ways I can get across what I want to say, maybe reach out to them, and still maintain the friendship. And we're part of a group too, a group that this person is largely at the center of. Were I to speak up, would I be jeopardizing not only that friendship, but also the friendship of everyone connected?

That's what this article is talking about, from my point of view.

Quite frankly I think I'm one of the lucky ones if it's only two people.

You cant be friends with someone who has a different opinion on something?

gamer167 posted...

You cant be friends with someone who has a different opinion on something?

I'm saying I'm leading up to a direct disagreement of ideals with this friend, and I hope our friendship is deep enough that they can see my point of view on this, and how opposed I am to theirs.

Honestly, maybe, and I hope this is true, I'm building up all this tension in my head for nothing, and we can come to an understanding, but I'm certainly not enjoying the displeasure of this anticipation.

Also this person suffered a rather rough injury this past week and is currently in recovery and I realize now is most likely not the best time for a heated argument.

But to directly answer your question, it wouldn't be the first time.

Fortunately, those former friends were far less connected and it was a simple matter to disconnect from them.

There's a big gap between a "difference of opinion" and "difference of ideals".

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I roll hard for the NYT, but I can never vouch for the opinion pieces. Those are wildcard.

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the goal of BLM isn't black equality its black supremacy

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New York Times is still fine to read, I use it for the world/science/politics sections

However, this is an op-ed. Their op-eds are stupid

Gotta remember the sections of the newspaper still apply in digital form. Op-eds are always trash

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shockthemonkey posted...

Ive stopped talking to my brother because hes always been racist (seen a whole bunch of his high school notebooks full of white power doodles) and while he plays it off like a joke now, he always wants to be antagonistic about it. He cant accept that his point of view is bad and hes not even capable of just not saying anything. He started an argument on my Facebook wall because someone dared to say that black peoples shouldnt be shot by police just for being disrespectful any more than a woman should be raped just because of what shes wearing. Started antagonizing my friends and then texted me a racist meme. So I told him Id send it to his employer one of these days and then stopped talking to him. I want him to feel as uncomfortable about it as hes made everyone else feel with his racism. If he refuses to understand that he has problems he needs to work on then he deserves consequences. Its not a good feeling at all to be in a position like this.

Your situation makes more sense than Go out and protest or donate money or Im cutting you out of my life.

CyricZ posted...

I'm saying I'm leading up to a direct disagreement of ideals with this friend, and I hope our friendship is deep enough that they can see my point of view on this, and how opposed I am to theirs.

Honestly, maybe, and I hope this is true, I'm building up all this tension in my head for nothing, and we can come to an understanding, but I'm certainly not enjoying the displeasure of this anticipation.

Also this person suffered a rather rough injury this past week and is currently in recovery and I realize now is most likely not the best time for a heated argument.

But to directly answer your question, it wouldn't be the first time.

Fortunately, those former friends were far less connected and it was a simple matter to disconnect from them.

There's a big gap between a "difference of opinion" and "difference of ideals".

I understand your prerogative. Personally I just couldnt imagine having a social life where I excommunicated a friend just because I found out we had different ideals. Id imagine if their ideals where that polarizing we wouldnt be compatible friends to begin with.

gamer167 posted...

I understand your prerogative. Personally I just couldnt imagine having a social life where I excommunicated a friend just because I found out we had different ideals. Id imagine if their ideals where that polarizing we wouldnt be compatible friends to begin with.

Well quite frankly, our friendship and the friendship of our group has largely been based around "we all went to school together and remained in the general area as adults". So really it's a case of us being used to each other, and we rarely discuss harsh topics.

Unless events makes those topics unavoidable, I imagine.

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CyricZ posted...

Well quite frankly, our friendship and the friendship of our group has largely been based around "we all went to school together and remained in the general area as adults". So really it's a case of us being used to each other, and we rarely discuss harsh topics.

Unless events makes those topics unavoidable, I imagine.

Well, thats makes it a little more understandable at least.

Are white people really texting people like that? Lol


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Annihilated posted...

Holy shit LMAO, how many times do I have to utterly humiliate you? You've lost, in a BIG way. Accept it.

Do you have a source/link to a health expert saying "Protesting doesn't have any transmission risk"? That's what you claimed in your previous post...

Annihilated posted...

And how suddenly guns are a good idea now if they get to shoot some cops? And how "pro-science" they are even when the health experts are actively lying to the protesters saying that protesting is the only time that gathering in large groups will not transmit the virus? There is a consistency to this, and it is that these leftists have no principles and no basis for morality at all. This is what happens when everything you stand for is based solely on hate. This is what you become. Every issue they stand on is based on what they want RIGHT NOW and what they want RIGHT NOW is whatever the right is against.

So to be clear - you believe ANYBODY that identifies as a leftist "has no principles" and is only driven by hate?

Ruvan22 posted...

Do you have a source/link to a health expert saying "Protesting doesn't have any transmission risk"? That's what you claimed in your previous post...

I already posted both the quote and the source in post #41.

Annihilated posted...

Holy shit LMAO, how many times do I have to utterly humiliate you? You've lost, in a BIG way. Accept it.

You rarely actually read whole articles or responses, huh?

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Ruvan22 posted...

Do you have a source/link to a health expert saying "Protesting doesn't have any transmission risk"? That's what you claimed in your previous post...

This is what they said in that open letter. Interpret as you will:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/health-care-open-letter-protests-coronavirus-trnd/index.html

"However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from demonstrators' ability to gather and demand change. This should not be confused with a permissive stance on all gatherings, particularly protests against stay-home orders."

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Ruvan22 posted...

So to be clear - you believe ANYBODY that identifies as a leftist "has no principles" and is only driven by hate?

I'm talking about "these leftists" as in the ones who are flip flopping contrarians who will use any excuse to backtrack on their previous "moral" claims if it means harming their enemies.

Annihilated posted...

I already posted both the quote and the source in post #41.

As sonicfan said, this is the quote -
""However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from demonstrators' ability to gather and demand change. This should not be confused with a permissive stance on all gatherings, particularly protests against stay-home orders.""

It DOESN'T say there is NO risk of transmission - I'm asking for a source for that claim you made (post 36)
"health experts are actively lying to the protesters saying that protesting is the only time that gathering in large groups will not transmit the virus? "

Annihilated posted...

I'm talking about "these leftists" as in the ones who are flip flopping contrarians who will use any excuse to backtrack on their previous "moral" claims if it means harming their enemies.

OK could you give me some examples of "these leftists" that have flip flopped? Like some names?

Ruvan22 posted...

OK could you give me some examples of "these leftists" that have flip flopped? Like some names?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/78751309

There are plenty in this topic, most prominently shockthemonkey. It's his defining trait actually, aside from the relentless spear-chucking ankle-biting hostility. There are actually people in there arguing that black lives matter but also that they don't care if black lives are lost to the virus.

Ruvan22 posted...

As sonicfan said, this is the quote -
""However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from demonstrators' ability to gather and demand change. This should not be confused with a permissive stance on all gatherings, particularly protests against stay-home orders.""

It DOESN'T say there is NO risk of transmission - I'm asking for a source for that claim you made (post 36)
"health experts are actively lying to the protesters saying that protesting is the only time that gathering in large groups will not transmit the virus? "

The difference between "there is no risk" and "we don't think it's risky" is splitting hairs. The empirical fact is they are downplaying the exact dangers they were condemning only a few days earlier solely to be politically correct. People ARE going to die because of this, and they will have to live with that very soon.

Remember that Annihilated hurled unmitigated abuse at someone for considering going to the protests.

Cursing, accusations. Just a complete tirade of abuse for the consideration.

He's unhinged.

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So... is this guy being a bigot against disabled people who are physically incapable of joining a protest?

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CyricZ posted...

Remember that Annihilated hurled unmitigated abuse at someone for considering going to the protests.

Cursing, accusations. Just a complete tirade of abuse for the consideration.

He's unhinged.

Uh huh, now why don't you tell the part you left out? Go ahead, I'm very curious to see if you'll do it.

With pleasure. The additional information about that topic was that TC had elderly and at-risk people he was living with.

Everyone in that topic said it was a bad idea and plenty offered him alternatives to protesting.

Everyone responded responsibly, except Annihilated.

Only you, only you flew off the handle to a degree I've not seen in years on this board. You offered nothing but abuse and hatred.

No one should be taking your advice with regards to this pandemic. Not when there are actual users on this board who have the capacity for empathy.

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CyricZ posted...

With pleasure. The additional information about that topic was that TC had elderly and at-risk people he was living with.

Everyone in that topic said it was a bad idea and plenty offered him alternatives to protesting.

Everyone responded responsibly, except Annihilated.

Only you, only you flew off the handle to a degree I've not seen in years on this board. You offered nothing but abuse and hatred.

No one should be taking your advice with regards to this pandemic. Not when there are actual users on this board who have the capacity for empathy.

No, there were plenty of other people who condemned the TC for putting his vulnerable father's life at risk as I did. I believe these are the people with capacity with empathy that you're speaking of. People who think of the well being of others than themselves and their own selfish needs, for example.

Annihilated posted...

No, there were plenty of other people who condemned the TC for putting his vulnerable father's life at risk as I did.

I said that.

Everyone in that topic said it was a bad idea and plenty offered him alternatives to protesting.

Maybe it's that rage of yours that's preventing you from reading properly.

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CyricZ posted...

I said that.

Maybe it's that rage of yours that's preventing you from reading properly.

No you did not say that. "It's a bad idea" is not the same as "how could you even think of doing something so irresponsible." And nobody in that topic disagreed with me. You're going to have do better with your mudslinging.

What Annihilated is saying is correct. I get that it's concern trolling because he's seems to be on the right, but he's definitely not wrong in what he's saying. Even CNN has been interviewing several of the people that signed that since yesterday and asking what's with the flipping. Their answers are just reiterating the social distancing and mask+gloves guidance helping but not really saying about the risks. The Atlantic article I posted earlier talks about how it's misleading by not being 100% on everything.

Also, while masks seem common in the protests, gloves and social distancing are not and there's also the issue of super spreaders.

I don't get why Cyric is getting getting at him for the stuff he posted in the other topic. There was nothing wrong with it. Once again, another white dude from the middle of nowhere in New Hampshire telling others justice over lives are more important.

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Hey I just want everyone to know the kind of guy Annihilated is.

As for the kind of guy you are.

InfinityMonster posted...

Once again, another white dude from the middle of nowhere in New Hampshire telling others justice over lives.

You going to do this every time you don't have an argument? It'll get tiresome. I don't even live in New Hampshire anymore.

I mean, is it wrong that addressing the protesters demands will lead to the protests decreasing?

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CyricZ posted...

You going to do this every time you don't have an argument? It'll get tiresome.

It's just proving my point. Every one super fervent about this fits the bill to almost a T. You don't see other black or minorities people chewing me out because they know it's true. We've been hurt the hardest. The population of your entire state is half Queens. A single county. So you can't really speak on these things when you've never lived the life.

Like you're doing with him, I'm doing with you guys. Just letting people know.

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Y'know what? Fair enough. Please, in every topic I post in, tell me I'm a white guy in Massachusetts who doesn't deserve an opinion.

Go right ahead.

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CyricZ posted...

Hey I just want everyone to know the kind of guy Annihilated is.

The kind of guy who cares about everyone's lives, not just a select few based on partisanship. I agree, thank you.

It would be one thing if the prevailing line was "(tens of) thousands of people will likely contract and die from covid as a consequence of these protests, but we feel the cause is worth the cost" because then people can at least debate the relative risk vs reward. It could also lead to discussions about how minorities tend to disproportionately live with elderly family, and that given the existing through-line of "covid disproportionately kills minorities" people could discuss the challenges in examining data post-protests to filter out the "noise" that these new transmissions will add to these prior conclusions.

Coming out and going "we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission" just sounds like you're unwilling to actually be honest about the situation, which turns people like Annihilated off because they feel like they're being lied directly to their faces and being told it's the truth. The fact that, in that very same paragraph, they explicitly remind people that only a month ago they were calling the "open up" protests dangerous and reckless just adds to the feeling of being handed a double standard.

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CyricZ posted...

Y'know what? Fair enough. Please, in every topic I post in, tell me I'm a white guy in Massachusetts who doesn't deserve an opinion.

Go right ahead.

I thought you're from New Hampshire?

But think about what you said for a second. Does your opinion really matter when you have no experience with the ones suffering the most? Especially when it talks down to others instead of being friendly opinions? You're shielded out there and if anything and I envy that on some level.

The fallout falls on us at the end of the day. I'm from NYC. We were hit the hardest in the world and now the protests are the largest in the world out here. It affects us negatively on every level.

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shockthemonkey posted...

He did that to me until I gave up talking to him

No, you said "Alright thats fair, Im in a shitty mood today and I dont think Im listening too well"

Don't be disingenuous.

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shockthemonkey posted...

Bro read between the lines

So we go back to my original point. You have no counter argument to anything I said and just being a smart ass as usual. Cool I guess. Never expected much from the grocery worker.

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By all means, please share if you have anything to help me with my perspective. I welcome it.

It can only help me to know more and understand more. And while I will likely never fully "get it", I'm trying to do right as best I can. I give, I share, I promote whenever I can, but I can always do more.

And if you want to say "never say anything about NYC, we look after ourselves and don't need you", then say it.

But, to that level, would that give you the perspective to say things about Minneapolis? Philly? Boston?

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InfinityMonster posted...

Never expected much from the grocery worker.

Comments like this make me question your good faith, though.

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I love how it all boils down to give us money for free or protest with us or your a racist. What about the disabled people or people on the front lines fighting coronavirus ??


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'whites'

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