Current Events > Honestly, I don't think people are as pro criminal justice reform as they say

(+) Yeah! (+)

They are. Reform in removing the stigma from ex felons, more lenient sentencing, less prison crowding, etc.

Maybe I'm letting Twitter and online comments cloud my judgement, but I just see such a disconnect.

For example, the issue with the lady at the park calling the cops on the black guy. Like I fully understand the issue and why what she did was wrong. You'll hear no rationalizing from me about it. But people's sense of what "justice" should be for her is just completely incorrect.

This bothers me whenever these situations come up.

I don't know man
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But people's sense of what "justice" should be for her is just completely incorrect.

what kind of justice have you seen being demanded?
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They aren't.

Most people are in fact pro-punishment and not pro-rehabilitation.

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I don't think people are dishonest about that. One reason we litigate racism in these cases is that it's easier than arguing that, even without racism, our criminal justice system would be awful

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emblem boy posted...

Maybe I'm letting Twitter and online comments cloud my judgement, but I just see such a disconnect.

Well there's your problem.

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emblem boy posted...

But people's sense of what "justice" should be for her is just completely incorrect.

I'm much more of a redemption guy than a justice guy as well. Justice gives me no satisfaction.

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I couldnt care less about criminals, do the crime, you do the time.

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Pancake posted...

But people's sense of what "justice" should be for her is just completely incorrect.

what kind of justice have you seen being demanded?

That's what I'm struggling with. I see and hear what people say they want, I don't know if I should take it seriously though. Jail time, long term loss of career/finances, death,

Damn_Underscore posted...

They aren't.

Most people are in fact pro-punishment and not pro-rehabilitation.

Ya. Like, if someone were to ask why our prison system got as bad as it did, it's very easy to see how.
People like vengeance and punitive punishment.

EmbraceOfDeath posted...

emblem boy posted...

Maybe I'm letting Twitter and online comments cloud my judgement, but I just see such a disconnect.

Well there's your problem.

It's in social media in general.

Balrog0 posted...

I don't think people are dishonest about that. One reason we litigate racism in these cases is that it's easier than arguing that, even without racism, our criminal justice system would be awful

I think there are some who imagine that the bulk of people in prison are non violent drug offenders or something. So I'm their head, it's easy to say we need reform. True reform would require more than that though, such as actual violent offenders.
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What does losing your job for being captured on camera being a racist animal abuser have to do with criminal justice?

You're really going out of your way trying to convolutedly and stealthily defend something you know you can't just come out and clearly defend.
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DeadBankerDream posted...

What does losing your job for being captured on camera being a racist animal abuser have to do with criminal justice?

You're really going out of your way trying to convolutedly and stealthily defend something you know you can't just come out and clearly defend.

The punitive impulse that causes our criminal justice issues are present in issues like this is my main point.

Maybe I'm being too pessimistic about what this whole internet mob event will actually do to her life. Maybe a month from now everything will be forgotten and she'll have no issue socially, financially, etc.
Or maybe it will, but it will "only" last a couple years.

My main issue is, this just seems to go against what I view as the spirit of criminal justice reform.
The idea that worst event won't keep following you around.
That you won't get over punished for what you do.

But again, maybe I'm being too sensitive. Maybe people really don't want her punished for years for this event.

I don't really care about this specific woman and this has nothing to do with me wanting to defend her
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A closer examination of should really be illegal and what should not would solve a hell of a lot of problems.

Questionmarktarius posted...

A closer examination of should really be illegal and what should not would solve a hell of a lot of problems.

This.

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Questionmarktarius posted...

A closer examination of should really be illegal and what should not would solve a hell of a lot of problems.

Examples?
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It wouldn't though. The point is people like certain things being criminal.

Well that's my take at least, I won't speak for tc

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emblem boy posted...

Maybe I'm letting Twitter and online comments cloud my judgement, but I just see such a disconnect.

I don't know man

It's Twitter and online comments messing with your mind. It happens to everyone, stop going to Twitter for politics.
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You're correlating two things that shouldnt be correlated

Stop
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emblem boy posted...

Examples?

Jaywalking, pretty much any illegal drug, seatbelts, handling salmon in suspicious circumstances, home distilling, large chunks of the DMCA, Kinder eggs, etc.

Hop103 posted...

emblem boy posted...

Maybe I'm letting Twitter and online comments cloud my judgement, but I just see such a disconnect.

I don't know man

It's Twitter and online comments messing with your mind. It happens to everyone, stop going to Twitter for politics.

But like, it's people in real life. I'm sure if I looked on my Facebook, I'd see people I knew saying the same things.

I'm all for the idea that "Twitter is not real life", but I don't want to completely blind myself to real things
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Questionmarktarius posted...

emblem boy posted...

Examples?

Jaywalking, pretty much any illegal drug, seatbelts, handling salmon in suspicious circumstances, home distilling, large chunks of the DMCA, Kinder eggs, etc.

Are a large portion of people even in jail for those things? The drug one I agree with, and see that just stopping that initial jail time keeps people's situation from spiraling worse.
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emblem boy posted...

Are a large portion of people even in jail for those things?

You'd be surprised how rampant kinder egg smuggling really is.

Also jaywalking (and its cousin, loitering) almost always leads to a stop-and-frisk situation, and can become "resisting" very easily.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Also jaywalking (and its cousin, loitering) almost always leads to a stop-and-frisk situation, and can become "resisting" very easily.

Ya, I guess that'd be true.

MarqueeSeries posted...

You're correlating two things that shouldnt be correlated

Stop

I don't think I am though
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emblem boy posted...

Twitter

Found your problem

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Dont fucking jaywalk it could get somebody killed.

I think non-violent offenders should be getting community service more often than not. I also think prison should be more oriented toward education and job training. The most heinous offenders should be separate from this though, and pretty much just be locked up and forgotten about.

The only "justice" that was committed upon this woman was that instead of one person witnessing her poor behavior, everyone did.

What was done afterwards was up to individual parties.

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emblem boy posted...

Reform in removing the stigma from ex felons

I've always found it funny how adamant social justice warriors about this. One minute they'll talk about how there should laws to protect felons during the hiring process. The next minute they'll demand someone lose their livelihood over a sexist/racist comment they made years ago on facebook.

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CyricZ posted...

The only "justice" that was committed upon this woman was that instead of one person witnessing her poor behavior, everyone did.

What was done afterwards was up to individual parties.

I'll agree that there might be a difference in what punishments people are fine with the government enforcing versus what they are fine with individuals doing... But like, there's still an overlap.

In the end the government is still composed of people
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I hope it's just people getting mad and letting their prior grievances cloud their judgment.

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pinky0926 posted...

I hope it's just people getting mad and letting their prior grievances cloud their judgment.

i'm leaning to that too

but also twitter doesn't help, it's not a good envrionment nor is it helpful in constructive conversation/debate on big issues like this. you can't sum up criminal justice reform in 240 characters unless you want it to be an emotive/viral soundbite

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Yes, TC, Twitter users being mad at a woman for acting racist is definitely the central issue to discuss when we talk about criminal justice reform.

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pinky0926 posted...

I hope it's just people getting mad and letting their prior grievances cloud their judgment.

Parappa09 posted...

pinky0926 posted...

I hope it's just people getting mad and letting their prior grievances cloud their judgment.

i'm leaning to that too

but also twitter doesn't help, it's not a good envrionment nor is it helpful in constructive conversation/debate on big issues like this. you can't sum up criminal justice reform in 240 characters unless you want it to be an emotive/viral soundbite

I agree and I hope I am just being overly sensitive. Like I mentioned, I'm usually of the mindset that real life is not Twitter/reddit/CE. Sometimes it just seems that these opinions are moving outside of those platforms. But ya, it is difficult to show nuance in online messages
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