Current Events > Now some time has passed, where do you stand on the whole gay cake thing?

(+) Yeah! (+)

UnfairRepresent posted...

I guess all the lawsuits were just performance art then.

Sigless user logic.

They were. Because the bakers lost.

voldothegr8 posted...

Yes

citation needed

UnfairRepresent posted...

What does that mean?

It means they'll have to accept the label of being discriminating.

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TheOtherMike posted...

They were. Because the bakers lost.

There were multiple cases and in the US, UK and Canada the Supreme Court sided with the Bakers and simutaniously made no clear judgements to prevent similar lawsuits from happening in future and coming up with clearer laws.

I don't know what you're on about here.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

There were multiple cases and in the US, UK and Canada the Supreme Court sided with the Bakers and simutaniously made no clear judgements to prevent similar lawsuits from happening in future and coming up with clearer laws.

I don't know what you're on about here.

Exactly. Which means the local nondiscrimination laws stand, which brings us back to my original post itt:

TheOtherMike posted...

These businesses agreed to operate within the confines of the law when they opened their business. Why should they be given special treatment to ignore the laws they already agreed to obey?

No dongs shall be drawn in icing in my bakery God damn it

No really any of these gay couples who call multiple bakeries before someone refuses their dong cake should be allowed to shove a bundt cake up the baker's ass. No icing.

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ufoivy posted...

But the law is also ironically enough the same excuse utilized by those in favor of abducting and physically removing billions of undocumented immigrants.

This is a weird post
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Racial segregation in restaurants is illegal. If you dont want to make a gay cake, you shouldn't be forced to. Jfc we're talking about a menu here.

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Their business their rules. Next.
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Their business, their cakes. There are plenty of businesses that would love their business.

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i know this is a bait topic TC and thats your gimmick but theres a difference between refusing to serve customers and refusing to make a design a customer would want
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pepper2012 posted...

If I own and operate my own business I should be able to say no to anyone for any reason. End of discussion. Maybe I think oreo cake tastes like shit and I just refuse anyone who insists on oreo it really doesnt matter.

Of course you cant always say why youre refusing someone so obviously if you own the business you need to have a few handy lines ready for whenever customers come in you don't want to serve. Answers or methods that are politically correct like just say sure and never actually make the cake then before they come to get it say it fell then refund them over the phone.

So, what if I told you all the businesses in your area were going to stop serving you from now on because of your particular eye color? How would you feel about that?

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Muflaggin posted...

Their business their rules. Next.

Except you know
..

the law
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ThisGuyAreSick posted...

i know this is a bait topic TC and thats your gimmick but theres a difference between refusing to serve customers and refusing to make a design a customer would want

next youre gonna say subways sandwiches are custom too.

epik_fail1 posted...

I don't think they should. But I also don't think they should have their whole life ruined because they refused to bake a cake.

Their business was ruined, not their whole lives.

They chose not to accommodate people whose sexual orientation they didnt like and other people chose not to support a business they didnt like.

Thats how she goes.

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ThisGuyAreSick posted...

i know this is a bait topic TC and thats your gimmick but theres a difference between refusing to serve customers and refusing to make a design a customer would want

Why is there a difference? They weren't asking the bakers to build them a PC. They were asking for the advertised service.

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CanuckCowboy posted...

Their business was ruined, not their whole lives.

They chose not to accommodate people whose sexual orientation they didnt like and other people chose not to support a business they didnt like.

Thats how she goes.

I am not defending their actions, but from what I have heard the fine was insanely high. They should still be punished though.

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IT was dead even but now "Yes" is taking it
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Insurance companies are allowed to restrict selling insurance to certain areas and I never hear CE complain about that.

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In the case of custom designs, it should be up to the bakery making it. Refusing service outright is discrimination, but no one should also be forced to design something they dont want to. I think their beliefs are bigoted and they are shit people for it, but they didnt have to make that cake. If someone came in and asked for a penis shaped cake for a bachelorette party and the bakery refused, should that also be discrimination?

The issue here is twofold. Part 1 is about how cake stores and how they should handle customers. Part 2 is about bakers and how they handle commissions. Too many people are trying to lump the two parts together.

A store or merchant should not be able to discriminate. They are selling products publicly and discrimination against any customer, for any reason is wrong.

An artist should not be forced to take on commissions they do not want to do, full stop. It doesn't matter if their medium of choice is painting, music, cake, or whatever. You would not force a songwriter to write a pro-Trump/Biden song, you would not force a painter to make a portrait of Judas assfucking Jesus while the devil looks on an laughs. Artists always get to choose what commissions they take and can turn them down for any reason.

If an artist owns a cake shop that sells non-custom cakes they cannot refuse to sell those non-custom products to someone. They also still have the right to refuse a commission. The two are not mutually exclusive.
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yes is winning? is this a joke?

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No because religious beliefs have nothing to do with it. "Judge not lest ye be judged." Thier own God tells them they don't have that right.

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

No because religious beliefs have nothing to do with it. "Judge not lest ye be judged." Thier own God tells them they don't have that right.

Seems really uh...ignorant (assuming you're not religious) to somehow act like you know more about a person's religion if you're not also practicing said religion.

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Businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason

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QuartzQuacker posted...

Seems really uh...ignorant (assuming you're not religious) to somehow act like you know more about a person's religion if you're not also practicing said religion.

https://www.pewforum.org/2019/07/23/which-religious-groups-know-what-about-religion/

Atheists know Christianity better than Christians.

Turbam posted...

Businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason

This is false.

So, uh, if XYZ Insurance Company won't provide me life insurance because I'm a high risk individual, do I get to sue them?

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Just read up on it, yup I was wrong :V

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NeoBowser posted...

yes is winning? is this a joke?

The people saying no dont even understand what happened.

They didnt refuse to give service to the gay couple. They refused a specific custom design.

That is fair. I would have the same opinion of an atheist couple wanting a joke about religion cake being denied, or whatever else.

Whether you agree or not with their worldview. They should not be forced to make anything not on their menu. This goes for anyone who has a by request type of job like tattoo artists.

The couple can just go to a different bakery.

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QuartzQuacker posted...

Seems really uh...ignorant (assuming you're not religious) to somehow act like you know more about a person's religion if you're not also practicing said religion.

Even if I didn't practice or do extensive research into other religions, how is this an ignorant point of view? I think the Ten Commandments and "Judge not lest ye be judged" are pretty well known things from the bible.

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cuttin_in_farm posted...

The people saying no dont even understand what happened.

or they disagree
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cuttin_in_farm posted...

The people saying no dont even understand what happened.

They didnt refuse to give service to the gay couple. They refused a specific custom design.

That is fair. I would have the same opinion of an atheist couple wanting a joke about religion cake being denied, or whatever else.

Whether you agree or not with their worldview. They should not be forced to make anything not on their menu. This goes for anyone who has a by request type of job like tattoo artists.

The couple can just go to a different bakery.

Exactly. People that expect a Christian Bakery to decorate a cake with what is seen as offensive (to their views) isn't acceptable. They may offer the couple a regular cake; that is what they should always do as to not discriminate against someone.

Otherwise, you're opening up pandora's box. Do you want to force a Jewish bakery to be FORCED to design a cake with a Swastika on it?

Do you want to force a Muslim bakery to depict Muhammad in a mocking way on a cake?

Answer those questions.

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Yup and that gay couple are free to publicly shame them, on that note you arent allow to deface the building or bar people entry.

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QuartzQuacker posted...

People that expect a Christian Bakery to decorate a cake with what is seen as offensive (to their views) isn't acceptable.

These owners agreed to obey the local and state laws when they opened their business. Why should they be given special treatment?

QuartzQuacker posted...

Otherwise, you're opening up pandora's box. Do you want to force a Jewish bakery to be FORCED to design a cake with a Swastika on it?

Fortunately, the Jewish baker wouldn't make a swastika cake for anyone, so there's no discrimination.

QuartzQuacker posted...

Do you want to force a Muslim bakery to depict Muhammad in a mocking way on a cake?

See above. It's about the selective service to customers, not the specific cake design.

Decorating a cake is an art. You can't force someone to draw something they don't believe in.

It's that simple.

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The_Bitcoin posted...

default WEDDING cakes?

wtf even is that?

QuartzQuacker posted...

Decorating a cake is an art. You can't force someone to draw something they don't believe in.

It's that simple.

The law disagrees, and these backers agreed to obey their local nondiscrimination laws when they obtained their business licenses.

No one is forcing them to be bakers or operate out of a storefront. They can find a state or country that permits discrimination on religious grounds. They can find a profession where their personal bigotries won't compel them to discriminate. They can hire a part-time baker to handle the icky gay cakes for them. They can sell their baked goods out of their homes, still make good money, and will have the luxury of hand-selecting who they offer their services to. These people have a slew of ways they could resolve the situation that doesn't involve breaking the laws they agreed to adhere to and then playing victim when they face legal and social backlash.

TheOtherMike posted...

The law disagrees, and these backers agreed to obey their local nondiscrimination laws when they obtained their business licenses.

No one is forcing them to be bakers or operate out of a storefront. They can find a state or country that permits discrimination on religious grounds. They can find a profession where their personal bigotries won't compel them to discriminate. They can hire a part-time baker to handle the icky gay cakes for them. They can sell their baked goods out of their homes, still make good money, and will have the luxury of hand-selecting who they offer their services to. These people have a slew of ways they could resolve the situation that doesn't involve breaking the laws they agreed to adhere to and then playing victim when they face legal and social backlash.

Sigless user logic.

fire_bolt posted...

The issue here is twofold. Part 1 is about how cake stores and how they should handle customers. Part 2 is about bakers and how they handle commissions. Too many people are trying to lump the two parts together.

A store or merchant should not be able to discriminate. They are selling products publicly and discrimination against any customer, for any reason is wrong.

An artist should not be forced to take on commissions they do not want to do, full stop. It doesn't matter if their medium of choice is painting, music, cake, or whatever. You would not force a songwriter to write a pro-Trump/Biden song, you would not force a painter to make a portrait of Judas assfucking Jesus while the devil looks on an laughs. Artists always get to choose what commissions they take and can turn them down for any reason.

If an artist owns a cake shop that sells non-custom cakes they cannot refuse to sell those non-custom products to someone. They also still have the right to refuse a commission. The two are not mutually exclusive.

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fire_bolt posted...

An artist should not be forced to take on commissions they do not want to do, full stop.

These are not "artists" working a commission. These are brick-and-mortar businesses subject to the same laws as all other brick-and-mortar businesses. If they were working out of their homes you would be correct, but they aren't. Read, comprehend, and actually reply with something substantial if you'd like to have a conversation.

TheOtherMike posted...

The law disagrees, and these bakers agreed to obey their local nondiscrimination laws when they obtained their business licenses.

No one is forcing them to be bakers or operate out of a storefront. They can find a state or country that permits discrimination on religious grounds. They can find a profession where their personal bigotries won't compel them to discriminate. They can hire a part-time baker to handle the icky gay cakes for them. They can sell their baked goods out of their homes, still make good money, and will have the luxury of hand-selecting who they offer their services to. These people have a slew of ways they could resolve the situation that doesn't involve breaking the laws they agreed to adhere to and then playing victim when they face legal and social backlash.

I still don't know.

On one hand, if he honestly thinks he may be damned or whatever, maybe he shouldn't have to.

But at the same time that could set a bad precedent and as a public business they probably should just do it

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TheOtherMike posted...

The law disagrees, and these backers agreed to obey their local nondiscrimination laws when they obtained their business licenses.

No one is forcing them to be bakers or operate out of a storefront. They can find a state or country that permits discrimination on religious grounds. They can find a profession where their personal bigotries won't compel them to discriminate. They can hire a part-time baker to handle the icky gay cakes for them. They can sell their baked goods out of their homes, still make good money, and will have the luxury of hand-selecting who they offer their services to. These people have a slew of ways they could resolve the situation that doesn't involve breaking the laws they agreed to adhere to and then playing victim when they face legal and social backlash.

Nobody is forcing them to go to a Christian Bakery. There are plenty of other avenues to get a cake. Real talk: You just want to stick it to Christians. Just admit it.

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QuartzQuacker posted...

Nobody is forcing them to go to a Christian Bakery.

They're just forcing them to go to other bakeries...
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The cake is a lie

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UnfairRepresent posted...

They're just forcing them to go to other bakeries...

Why would you go out of your way to find a Christian bakery for a gay wedding? It doesn't even make any sense. Like, I'm assuming the Bakery is like an OBVIOUS religious bakery with crosses hanging in the window.

And yet, I don't hear any complaints about a Jewish or Muslim bakery on the very same subject. You realize they aren't going to make the gay cake too...right?

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* Goes into Mcdonalds*

TC: Hey, can I get a Whopper?

We dont do that here, youll have to go to Burger King.

TC: WHY ARE YOU FORCING ME TO GO TO A DIFFERENT RESTAURANT!?

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QuartzQuacker posted...

Why would you go out of your way to find a Christian bakery for a gay wedding?

1. Who says you are? It might just be your local one or one you've used before or one that is popular for high quality.

2. Most Christian bakeries aren't assholes. Assholes just use religion as an excuse to be assholes.

Remember "Love thy neighbor as thyself?"

If I was going to get a custom cake I'd just go to the local bakery. I wouldn't do extensive research first to find out which ones are tiered to be less likely to discriminate against me.
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cuttin_in_farm posted...

*Goes into Mcdonalds*

TC: Hey, can I get a Whopper?

We dont do that here, youll have to go to Burger King.

TC: WHY ARE YOU FORCING ME TO GO TO A DIFFERENT RESTAURANT!?

More like "Can I get a big mac?"
"No we won't serve you that because we think it's morally wrong but you can go to another McDonalds that will"

The issue isn't brand, it's morality of the people serving. So your analogy falls apart. It was a service the bakery offers, they just refused to do it.
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Captain_Qwark posted...

If they still offered basic wedding cake designs then it's fair

They shouldn't be obligated to make any custom design the customer wants just because they offer customization.

I agree with this.

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