Board 8 > What's your view on "ascended memes" in games/movies?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I was just thinking about this. Phoenix Wright is really the first time I remember "meme" stuff making it into an actual piece of media (for great justice, SPARDA, etc). I'm sure there were a ton of examples before that, but it's the first one I remember. Certainly I think it was the first to do it so often, rather than just a one-off joke - PW was throwing meme references into like, every case. But PW is still a pretty niche game. But then a few years later even like Pokemon was doing it, and then it started bleeding into movies too, like the Sonic movie showing Sanic.

So I was thinking that maybe the surprise of it has pretty much gone at this point and it's wrapped around - or at least started to wrap around - into embarrassing, pandering territory. Like my reaction to Sanic was more like "oh right". I didn't laugh or anything, I kind of just expected it? I think more than anything I respected it as a way of engaging with the fanbase's inside jokes, but as a joke it's not particularly funny to me to just show a meme now. The surprise of it is gone.

IDK. What do you think? Did you ever like it?

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I still like it though perhaps it's better if it's done subtly. Like if the sequence still makes sense (and entertaining) even if people aren't aware of the meme, then it's fine. Since most memes age horribly and won't be understood by people who consume the media not at the time of its original release.

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It depends on presentation, like most jokes, honestly.

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I feel like references have always been a thing in all forms of entertainment media. For an earlier example than PW, see anything released by Working Designs in the 90's.

The bottom line is if you like the thing being referenced you probably don't mind the reference.

But yes, how the reference is delivered is important. It's the difference between something seeming pandering and a reference that makes you feel included.

Almost always makes me cringe, though there are a handful of exceptions.

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It used to be a novelty. Now I'd call it just another part of pop culture that's fair game for allusion. It's really easy to make pop culture references apropos of nothing, but they can be components of good gags.

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For the most part I despise it. Sometimes it's okay, like I think your examples are fine. Ace Attorney's writing is so quirky and there's so many it just kind of fits. Sanic worked because it's relevant and fit within in the context of the story.

Usually it's just frustrating and comes of as lazy writing.

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WarThaNemesis2 posted...

It depends on presentation, like most jokes, honestly.

While this is true, I think there's a higher bar for it now than there was.

I think if you structured the PW jokes similarly but with modern memes, they would not get laughs like they used to, and many more people would complain about it than before.

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I appreciated seeing the Sanic meme in the Sonic movie.

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I'm fine with it as long as its

1) not overdone to the point where memes become the main talking point about the game/movie in question

2) originally intended by the creators and not shoehorned in by localization teams.

to be clear on that second one, it is fine to inject memes as long as they don't betray the original intent of the script at that point. for example, if it's supposed to be a funny scene, but the localization team doesn't think the humor in question would jive well with american audiences, i don't have an issue with putting a meme there. (again, as long as its not overdone).

however, there have been examples of teams (nintendo tree house might be the worst) inserting memes at really random points in the script where they really serve no purpose at all.