Current Events > Unemployment in the Nordic countries in January vd April

(+) Yeah! (+)

Sweden: 7.2% -> 8.0%
Norway: 3.8% -> 10.7%
Finland: 6.5% -> 11.8%
Denmark: 4.8% -> Cannot find data
Iceland: 3.8% -> 16.9% (not verified data)

These numbers are something which makes both people and politicians in Sweden stay on the current COVID-19 course. The Government predict our unemployment will be 10-13% by the end of 2020 if global trade doesnt pick up though.

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*vs in the topic title

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Why was it so high to begin with?

knutjob posted...

Why was it so high to begin with?

Youth unemployment in Sweden has been high since the 2008 financial crisis. Unemployment for Swedes aged 30 years and older recovered much faster after that crisis but it erased many low level jobs. Sweden is #2 after Switzerland in terms of so called brain jobs per capita.

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Sweden has a pretty high infection rate though doesn't it? As a Swede, what do people think about the current situation?

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ssjevot posted...

Sweden has a pretty high infection rate though doesn't it? As a Swede, what do people think about the current situation?

It is higher than in our neighbours, yes, since we have kept most businesses open (stuff like cinemas and night clubs closed early in the pandemic though). Our death rate is sadly due to a failure to protect the elderly in care homes (around half of our deaths have happened in care homes and then we have the elderly who died in a hospital on top of that).

The majority of Swedes reason that the virus is here to stay until there is a vaccine or herd immunity. Closing down society for years is viewed as insane and as something which will hurt the prosperity of society, the education of our children and so forth harder than the virus.

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swedes: "as long as our unemployment numbers look good, it's okay if grandpa dies"

Kaiganeer posted...

swedes: "as long as our unemployment numbers look good, it's okay if grandpa dies"

Grandpa lived a long life

Its not unreasonable. We all have to die of something, but life must remain worth living.

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Kaiganeer posted...

swedes: "as long as our unemployment numbers look good, it's okay if grandpa dies"

People dont want grandpa to die, but the spread to care homes could easily have happened even if society at large was locked down tighter since the same people would have gone to work there. So those workers would have been out in society regardless. Our neighbours, which locked down, are seeing a rise of deaths in care homes as well.

We have a tough dilemma since if poverty where to spread due to economic collapse then the elderly care and healthcare would suffer because of that since the care builds on there being resources in society. The young and middle aged Swedes who end up in the ICU because of COVID-19 got a very high survival rate compared to several other European countries since our healthcare system is still holding up - it has not fallen apart during the pandemic like in Italy and Spain.

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BalanceLost posted...

People dont want grandpa to die, but the spread to care homes could easily have happened even if society at large was locked down tighter since the same people would have gone to work there. So those workers would have been out in society regardless. Our neighbours, which locked down, are seeing a rise of deaths in care homes as well.

We have a tough dilemma since if poverty where to spread due to economic collapse then the elderly care and healthcare would suffer because of that since the care builds on there being resources in society. The young and middle aged Swedes who end up in the ICU because of COVID-19 got a very high survival rate compared to several other European countries since our healthcare system is still holding up - it has not fallen apart during the pandemic like in Italy and Spain.

what's the sweedish healthcare system look like in compassion to say the US?

reason this doesn't work in america is because we've got a shit health system that cant support 'herd immunity' development...

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monkmith posted...

what's the sweedish healthcare system look like in compassion to say the US?

reason this doesn't work in america is because we've got a shit health system that cant support 'herd immunity' development...

One thing Ive heard is that Sweden gets more actual care than the USA for every dollar/krona spent - less is eaten by bureocratic bloat. The US seems to have a great system for the richest but it doesnt give as much to the less economically well off citizens.

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I'd much rather have a Norway-like infection and death rate with higher unemployment than what's going on in Sweden.

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Ooooooranges posted...

I'd much rather have a Norway-like infection and death rate with higher unemployment than what's going on in Sweden.

What is the situation like here do you wager?

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It's worth noting that the current death numbers weren't part of some herd immunity strategy. Like BL noted it's because of a failure to protect the elderly. We have a pretty good idea of roughly why that is, and it's more to do with failures of city/region govts to ensure patient safety than it is about the "national strategy"

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Omega Hunter posted...

Its not unreasonable. We all have to die of something, but life must remain worth living.

I'd rather be euthanized than have to suffer through the symptoms of coronavirus. It's the difference between dying peacefully in your sleep and being tortured to death

Thats a serious ouch for Iceland if true. Norway too.

The people are still generally voluntarily distancing themselves and using masks right? How much have bars and restaurants suffered?
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Masks aren't really common. People do social distance a lot more, and a lot of places have had to close down or file for government assistance. But it's not like bars are empty. People still go out to party and stuff. But there are stricter restrictions on how many are allowed in a certain place, and rules about distance between tables etc. And you can't sit in the bar anymore, you have to be seated at a table.

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emblem boy posted...

The people are still generally voluntarily distancing themselves and using masks right? How much have bars and restaurants suffered?

scar the 1 posted...

Masks aren't really common. People do social distance a lot more, and a lot of places have had to close down or file for government assistance. But it's not like bars are empty. People still go out to party and stuff. But there are stricter restrictions on how many are allowed in a certain place, and rules about distance between tables etc. And you can't sit in the bar anymore, you have to be seated at a table.

People going out to party is not correct, but some people go out to have a drink. You cannot seat more than 50 people in one establishment and you need to have like 2 meters between each group of guests. And you must sit at your table all the time. Several places have been closed by the local infectious disease prevention authorities for not obeying the rules.

The vast majority doesnt go out to restaurants and bars now though and most who can work from home do so. Home deliveries from restaurants and cafs has increased heavily however.

Talking about unemployment - I just saw it is now 14.7% in the USA

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Norway - 8,034 total cases, 217 deaths

Sweden - 25,265 total cases, 3,175 deaths

hmm.....

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brotrrwinner posted...

Norway - 8,034 total cases, 217 deaths

Sweden - 25,265 total cases, 3,175 deaths

hmm.....

And even their own epidemiologists predict they will reach the same percentage of infections and deaths once they open up their society. Sweden and Norway are not equal in terms of population size as well.

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BalanceLost posted...

The majority of Swedes reason that the virus is here to stay until there is a vaccine or herd immunity. Closing down society for years is viewed as insane and as something which will hurt the prosperity of society, the education of our children and so forth harder than the virus.

That's kind of a cop out though. Most of East Asia / SE Asia has either reopened or stayed opened during this time without the same levels of death or infection. Some of those countries went on lock down first or had more strict social distancing policies. I feel like Sweden is a country where people will listen to their government (unlike say Americans) and thus would be able to shelter for a month while the country locks down on the spread of the virus and develops proper procedures to reopen things.

pistachio12 posted...

That's kind of a cop out though. Most of East Asia / SE Asia has either reopened or stayed opened during this time without the same levels of death or infection. Some of those countries went on lock down first or had more strict social distancing policies. I feel like Sweden is a country where people will listen to their government (unlike say Americans) and thus would be able to shelter for a month while the country locks down on the spread of the virus and develops proper procedures to reopen things.

One factor not mentioned before is the Swedish Constitution - neither the Government nor Riksdagen (our parliament) can legally force the population at large to stay at home for weeks on end. And implementing such constitutional changes without public approval is not something most politicians wanna go through with. The Government getting the legal power to close schools and businesses has been implemented temporarily but it was a high risk move which was heavily scrutinized by the opposition parties and the media before being voted on.

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brotrrwinner posted...

Norway - 8,034 total cases, 217 deaths

Sweden - 25,265 total cases, 3,175 deaths

hmm.....

Norway is now switching to what Sweden is doing

BalanceLost posted...

One factor not mentioned before is the Swedish Constitution - neither the Government nor Riksdagen (our parliament) can legally force the population at large to stay at home for weeks on end. And implementing such constitutional changes without public approval is not something most politicians wanna go through with. The Government getting the legal power to close schools and businesses has been implemented temporarily but it was a high risk move which was heavily scrutinized by the opposition parties and the media before being voted on.

Is it possible that Sweden could ask the public to actively choose to close businesses and schools or even voting to the government power to temporarily do this (say for a maximum of two months)?

pistachio12 posted...

Is it possible that Sweden could ask the public to actively choose to close businesses and schools or even voting to the government power to temporarily do this (say for a maximum of two months)?

They're likely not going to try and close schools since they don't seem to be driving the contagion.

They interviewed Sweden's chief epidemiologist was interviewed in the Daily Show the other day. Y'all should watch it, it wasn't bad.

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I'm glad I chose basing my startup in Helsinki over Sweden.

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