Current Events > Your girlfriend: 'Due to the shortage let's try an alternate meat source.'

(+) Yeah! (+)

That's a lot of text so I won't reply to all of it, just the most apparent wrong bits.
Humans are a unique case due to cooking, but most of our history is based in frugivorism, kinda like...every other primate. That doesn't mean we don't sometimes eat meat, but it definitely means it doesn't need to be the main part of our diet. Kinda obvious from the fact that we have no fangs or claws, very poor speed and strength, need fiber in our diet, and just the fact that our teeth look like any other primate's (w/ less pronounces canines). There's also the fact that our digestive tract is about 7x (close to a bear's, at 8x) the length of our body, when more like 3-4x is typical in carnivores, so it's odd that you focus on that as the end-all-be-all when it doesn't even support your argument anyway. It's an obvious red herring that relies on the audience to associate herbivorism with grazing (grass is high in cellulose and difficult to digest, even for ruminants, which is why they regurgitate the "cud" to chew it again). But it's not even a consistent rule anyway, I mean koalas have a digestive tract that's like 3.5x their body length and a dolphin's is a whopping 30x.

The bioavailability argument also ignores the fact that humans have been cooking our food for a very long time now, which also increases bioavailability and even makes some inedible things edible. Sure, fat increases how much beta carotene you can absorb (roughly 2.5-5g per meal is required for optimal absorption, or about 1/4th the amount in a serving of peanut butter) but you fail to mention that cooking does as well, in addition to making basically any other food easier to digest. Suddenly the "eat meat get big brain" hypothesis seems less compelling. The "ease of digestion" argument just isn't a good one. Even an elephant, which also has a 4-chambered stomach like the cow, only manages to digest about 40% of the plant matter that it eats. Plants are hard to digest, that's just the nature of cellulose. Meat squishy, plants tough.

It seems kayotic, based on the youtube nutritional broscientist verbage, has sadly fallen for the same talking points I hear so often, like the one about cholesterol (you don't actually need it in your diet, the body produces the good (read: required) kind and the brain in particular is extremely efficient at this https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/cholesterol-the-mind-and-the-brain). Babies do indeed need breast milk since they kinda don't have teeth yet but guess what? That's vegan. The thing about modern produce being modified to suit our palates is a red herring since that is also true for meat; wild animals sure as fuck don't have that wonderful marbling you see on steak. Many people don't actually like the natural stuff, either, being such a common thing that there's even a word for it: "gamy".

The brain fog/mental decline claims are just funny coming from someone who makes as many simple errors in his posts (see below); especially so since you bring up youtubers to support this argument (just lol) and the ones I see espousing this type of diet are some combo of kooky grifter (Jordan Peterson, who claims to have stayed awake for 22 days straight) and conspiratorial nutcase (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpG1bvjo8I0)

Not surprising if you've ever visited 4chan (the cryptocurrency board is a gold mine when it comes to this sort of thing), conspiratorial mind rot and meatitarianism have a very high rate of overlap, it seems. But that's just anecdotal evidence and we ignore that since we're smart, don't we.

kayoticdreamz posted...

Vegetarians, while I would argue that isn't the healthiest diet either, they at least eat meat

Pretty sure vegetarians don't eat meat brah

kayoticdreamz posted...

such an outstanding reply! I am not convinced. Long live the vegan lifestyle!

You mean you are convinced. Sarcasm got broken there, lol.

kayoticdreamz posted...

All this to say, the studies that say, we need less meat, are dangerously flawed and ignore proper context, and historical human fact and history and biology.True we some similarities to herbivores,

Three errors in this bit as well. This must be the famous vegan brain fog at work!

But at the end of the day, the best measure of a good diet is good health outcomes. Plant-based diets happen to have the best health outcomes associated with them based on the overwhelming bulk of studies done on the subject, so I'll stand by them for now.

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Sorry if I was abrasive/short earlier. I've debunked these points so many times, I've started losing interest. It's just the whole "Large organizations of registered dietitians, the field of cardiology, and world health organizations of scientists are completely wrong about everything nutrition because I saw some guy on youtube say so" is the most annoying starting point, regardless of if your intentions are good.

I've been vegan for 4 years and have lifted competitively off and on for 10 years. I'm not deficient in anything and I don't take any supplements. I've had no negative effects. It's a feat that has nothing to do with my PhD.

Let's start with B12. There's a reason "The B12 Store" and its equivalents are in almost every mall in America and it isn't because the US is filled with vegans. 40% of Americans are low in B12 in spite of eating meat with almost every meal.Those that aren't deficient are often those that consume B12 fortified foods (I'm part of this group) like cereal.
https://www.ars.usda.gov/news-events/news/research-news/2000/b12-deficiency-may-be-more-widespread-than-thought/

B12 is a product of bacteria. Our ancestors got it by drinking from ponds, not exclusively from a luxury of daily steak and eggs. We sanitize our drinking water now so fortification and supplements are needed. The animals you eat are fed B12 supplements. Start drinking from a ditch instead of the tap if you really believe our ancestral diets are so much better.

A quick touch on a few things. The body makes all of the cholesterol it wants. Introducing more leads to the #1 killer. But even keto bros will tell you ingesting cholesterol doesn't significantly raise your cholesterol, that's saturated fat which can also be found in plants. Most of India is vegan and that's a pretty damn large human civilization. They have plenty of engineers, doctors, and high profile scientists so I don't think the lack of animal flesh made them cognitively impaired.

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Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

You mean you are convinced. Sarcasm got broken there, lol.

I noticed that too. Textbook brain fog smh

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Look at all the angry vegans mad that their diet is not healthy

You know I was half thinking of replying seriously, but then I saw this....and I just couldn't take anything you say seriously. Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Babies do indeed need breast milk since they kinda don't have teeth yet but guess what? That's vegan.

LMFAO....do you even know what vegan means? OMG if there ever was a self imposed checkmate, this was it. I can't even believe this is an actual quote.

I'm half tempted not even to explain why this is so laughably wrong, but here we go:

Vegan - Doesn't eat any animal products, period.
Humans - A mammal
Mammals - A type of animal in the animal kingdom
Breast milk - Drinkable/edible byproduct of an animal.

So, tell me again how drinking breastmilk is vegan? Are humans non-animals? is breastmilk a non-animal product?

like OMG, holy shit, way to fail basic biology. I don't even know how you can claim I don't know what I'm talking about when you lack a very basic understanding of what a human being is. Heck of what a signature defining trait of most mammals is.

@Giblet_Enjoyer

Anyway, thanks for the laugh LOL. This is going into the hall of shame

kayoticdreamz posted...

You know I was half thinking of replying seriously, but then I saw this....and I just couldn't take anything you say seriously.

LMFAO....do you even know what vegan means? OMG if there ever was a self imposed checkmate, this was it. I can't even believe this is an actual quote.

I'm half tempted not even to explain why this is so laughably wrong, but here we go:

Vegan - Doesn't eat any animal products, period.
Humans - A mammal
Mammals - A type of animal in the animal kingdom
Breast milk - Drinkable/edible byproduct of an animal.

So, tell me again how drinking breastmilk is vegan? Are humans non-animals? is breastmilk a non-animal product?

like OMG, holy shit, way to fail basic biology. I don't even know how you can claim I don't know what I'm talking about when you lack a very basic understanding of what a human being is. Heck of what a signature defining trait of most mammals is.

@Giblet_Enjoyer

Anyway, thanks for the laugh LOL. This is going into the hall of shame

Vegans argue that Breastmilk from human mothers is still vegan since the milk was given up voluntarily.

Something animals can't consent too.

This would also make cannibalism vegan but leave that debate up to the vegans, not me
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Kayotic, you're the guy who said a while back that vegetarians eat meat so sit the fuck down, bud. Second, yes, as UR said, breastmilk is willingly given and so is vegan since veganism is about animal exploitation. That's why vegans also don't wear fur or leather, even though they're obviously not eating their clothing items in any case.

But even by the "veganism = not eating animal products, period" definition, it's still at least vegetarian so it still stands.

And UR, while I'm pretty sure you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who would consent to you cannibalizing them, I suppose if you could then that would presumably be considered a rare instance of vegan-friendly meat

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Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

And UR, while I'm pretty sure you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who would consent to you cannibalizing them

You really really really wouldn't.

There are a lot of famous cases of people being arrested for cannibalism or attempted cannibalism who then turn around and say "No it was consentual, not murder."

For some reason it's usually Germans.

Everytime one happens there's some hullabaloo about what crime it is, murder/manslaughter/assisted suicide or even a crime at all.

Most famous was Armin Meiwes but he was not the first, just the the one the media latched onto for some reason.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

You really really really wouldn't.

There are a lot of famous cases of people being arrested for cannibalism or attempted cannibalism who then turn around and say "No it was consentual, not murder."

For some reason it's usually Germans.

Everytime one happens there's some hullabaloo about what crime it is, murder/manslaughter/assisted suicide or even a crime at all.

Most famous was Armin Meiwes but he was not the first, just the the one the media latched onto for some reason.

Wow that's fucked, I never heard of such a thing. I wonder what the verdict from vegans would be on whether or not that's vegan. I'm guessing some would say that anyone who is consenting to that is mentally ill so it's not real consent but Idk, I personally think if someone wants to be eaten then they can knock themselves out

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I'm no nutritionist expert nor much less but I think one problem with a vegan diet is that even if you could have a complete one with absolutely no animal products that doesn't mean such a diet would be accessible to some or even most of the population, particularly less industrialized societies where animal products aren't just some luxury or overindulgence but an essential part of their diets. Human beings have evolved and developed just fine with animal products as part of their diets and there's no reason to think we can't continue to do so.

With that said it's also important to recognize that a diet that relies too much on animal products leads to its own set of health problems. There's a reason why our digestive system has evolved to process a lot of plant material, much more so than your typical carnivore. We're not strict herbivores nor meant to be but we're also not carnivores nor even primarily carnivores, I think we're supposed to get most of our nutrition from plant sources but with the ability to supplement and enhance a lot of our diet with animal products (something which has given us a lot of evolutionary advantages as has been mentioned). And I don't understand why anybody would want to challenge this.

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Kayotic, you're the guy who said a while back that vegetarians eat meat so sit the fuck down, bud. Second, yes, as UR said, breastmilk is willingly given and so is vegan since veganism is about animal exploitation. That's why vegans also don't wear fur or leather, even though they're obviously not eating their clothing items in any case.

But even by the "veganism = not eating animal products, period" definition, it's still at least vegetarian so it still stands.

And UR, while I'm pretty sure you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who would consent to you cannibalizing them, I suppose if you could then that would presumably be considered a rare instance of vegan-friendly meat

Vegetarians eat eggs, drink milk and eat cheese. They just don't eat sentient beings like cows chickens etc. .so you sit the fuck back down.

And nope vegans just don't eat animal. Products, the reasons for why may vary from person to person. Breastmilk is an animal product but keep telling yourself it's not lmao

Edit

Yes breastmilk is vegetarian but we weren't talking about that. You can't just swap words and claim you're now right. If you had said vegetarian I wouldn't have laughed so much at your other post

But it's clear you don't know the difference and not the first time I've seen a vegan swap vegan and vegetarian to suit their argument after getting roasted in a debate

Sorry for any odd typos and crap my phone sucks and I can't edit the post anymore

TC, how does this screenshot make you feel?

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UnfairRepresent posted...

How do you react?

I probably eat her, and give the cat burger a proper burial.

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teepan95 posted...

TC, how does this screenshot make you feel?

indifferent

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

I probably eat her, and give the cat burger a proper burial.

you already ate it
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UnfairRepresent posted...

indifferent

you already ate it

But I haven't taken a dump yet.

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teepan95 posted...

TC, how does this screenshot make you feel?

idk about TC, but it makes me feel like eating a cheeseburger on a wheat bun with lettuce, tomatoes and maybe some avocado. Bacon would be nice, too.

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meralonne posted...

teepan95 posted...

TC, how does this screenshot make you feel?

idk about TC, but it makes me feel like eating a cheeseburger on a wheat bun with lettuce, tomatoes and maybe some avocado. Bacon would be nice, too.

my man
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If theres one thing I wont eat its pussycat.

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I got warned for making a topic like this by an ethnocentric moderator who couldn't use enough critical thought to realize that all animals are animals, and it isn't more moral to eat one, but not another.

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Pepys Monster posted...

I got warned for making a topic like this by an ethnocentric moderator who couldn't use enough critical thought to realize that all animals are animals, and it isn't more moral to eat one, but not another.

Probably was a mistake to make a topic advocating for breaking the law dude.

It's illegal to eat cats In America outside of Native American Reservations. And this is an American website.

This topic was asking how you would respond to the scenario, not trying to justify the pratice of all meat being equal.
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